So, what is the fuss about...?
Discussion
I'll be as popular as a pork pie in a synagogue after this, but what is the appeal of TVRs? Have had my Chimp for about 6 months now and it's ok. Just ok really.
Sure it sounds nice, but it isn't really that quick...not in useable terms at least. It can travel fast but you're never quite sure it's going to stay on the black bit between the hedges unless the road is billiard table like. My RS2000 4x4 was a quicker tool in those terms, at least on the roads round here (could hear the stereo too!). And there's a local Seat Leon, assorted Bimmers and a VR6 Golf whose drivers will undoubtedly agree.
Sometimes it feels good, more often it just feels crude and unsorted. (Only 20k and full SH before you all start).
It looks nice, I'll give you that. Just don't look too hard at the build quality and primitive Micky Mouse engineering on display not far below the surface (that full-lock steering geometery...what a joke). Be honest, it's little better than an average kit-car is it, and worse than some good ones?...worth a third of a small family house? Behave already!
Will it stand hard use? Hmmm...certainly not the 65k of all weather abuse in four years without a major bill that the Escort above managed with ease. Seems to eat a small bag of bullion a week at the mo.
Frankly, and I don't want to put anyone off, I am somewhat underwhelmed. Maybe it's just the winter blues and everything will seem fine come the spring sunshine...beginning to doubt I'll hang with it 'till then though.
Anyone wanna trade for a 911? Or a Civic TypeR?
V8??...just four TL1000s zip-tied together, innit!?
Sure it sounds nice, but it isn't really that quick...not in useable terms at least. It can travel fast but you're never quite sure it's going to stay on the black bit between the hedges unless the road is billiard table like. My RS2000 4x4 was a quicker tool in those terms, at least on the roads round here (could hear the stereo too!). And there's a local Seat Leon, assorted Bimmers and a VR6 Golf whose drivers will undoubtedly agree.
Sometimes it feels good, more often it just feels crude and unsorted. (Only 20k and full SH before you all start).
It looks nice, I'll give you that. Just don't look too hard at the build quality and primitive Micky Mouse engineering on display not far below the surface (that full-lock steering geometery...what a joke). Be honest, it's little better than an average kit-car is it, and worse than some good ones?...worth a third of a small family house? Behave already!
Will it stand hard use? Hmmm...certainly not the 65k of all weather abuse in four years without a major bill that the Escort above managed with ease. Seems to eat a small bag of bullion a week at the mo.
Frankly, and I don't want to put anyone off, I am somewhat underwhelmed. Maybe it's just the winter blues and everything will seem fine come the spring sunshine...beginning to doubt I'll hang with it 'till then though.
Anyone wanna trade for a 911? Or a Civic TypeR?
V8??...just four TL1000s zip-tied together, innit!?
I must confess the winter months have dampened my enthusiasm for my S. Too much regular driving on motorways and in the rain squeezed much of the pleasure out of owning the Tiv as it gets tiring doing that sort of driving in that sort of car.
Then at the weekend we were blessed with some sunshine, I got the roof off, heard the exhaust properly again and a smile returned to my face. Drove over some fantastic roads around Salisbury which would have been just perfect had they been dry. It was the reminder I needed though.
Then at the weekend we were blessed with some sunshine, I got the roof off, heard the exhaust properly again and a smile returned to my face. Drove over some fantastic roads around Salisbury which would have been just perfect had they been dry. It was the reminder I needed though.
Indulge me Zippy...tell me what I'm missing. Just speaking as I find after experiencing both. If it helps, my 1990 309 GTi was a more rewarding drive too, so was my 2cv, but my Frontera wasn't. So, in the context of vehicles I've recently owned, the Chimp is one up from the Allegro of the off-road world. I wish it was a better showing, but it ain't so far...convince me I'm wrong?
V8??...just four TL1000s zip-tied together, innit!?
V8??...just four TL1000s zip-tied together, innit!?
Lock and load Pupp - not everyone is cut out to be a TVR owner. It's a bit like cats, they own you instead of you owning them. I still love mine to bits after 4 years and it's only a sheddy old 4.0L Chimaera. I use something else for commuting/shopping etc. but the TVR still gets 7,000 miles a year on it - I do use it.
Sell up and buy a BMW or an Audi TT ... nobody will be cross with you.
T/.
Sell up and buy a BMW or an Audi TT ... nobody will be cross with you.
T/.
What sort of reply is that Zips? I've stated my position...where is your's coming from. And it's not a question of anyone being cross with me Trefor...except perhaps me for spending a ludicrous amount of money on something so deficient in so many basic areas.
V8??...just four TL1000s zip-tied together, innit!?
V8??...just four TL1000s zip-tied together, innit!?
Pupp,
Put it that way most people here know what TVRs really are, i.e. their numerous qualities as well as their numerous defaults. If you go back to the old rationale and list what's important for you in a car, it will probably be very different from what TVR lover think. It certainly doesn't mean you're an idiot - merely a sensible person
, nor does it prove that TVR loves are twats. I guess the reason why there are so many companies making different cars it because there are so many customers. As trefor puts it " not everyone is cut to be a TVR owner. Personally I find this rather reassuring !
Regards
PS: IMO a Honda rev'ing at 9000 rpm doesn't come close to an idle TVR...
Roms
Antigua Blue Chimaera 450
MCC Smart Passion Grey with Bungee Red interior ;o)
Put it that way most people here know what TVRs really are, i.e. their numerous qualities as well as their numerous defaults. If you go back to the old rationale and list what's important for you in a car, it will probably be very different from what TVR lover think. It certainly doesn't mean you're an idiot - merely a sensible person
, nor does it prove that TVR loves are twats. I guess the reason why there are so many companies making different cars it because there are so many customers. As trefor puts it " not everyone is cut to be a TVR owner. Personally I find this rather reassuring ! Regards
PS: IMO a Honda rev'ing at 9000 rpm doesn't come close to an idle TVR...
Roms
Antigua Blue Chimaera 450
MCC Smart Passion Grey with Bungee Red interior ;o)
It's just a case of whatever floats your boat. To a certain extent there is more of a thrill going quickly in a slower car coz it takes more effort to wind it up. (Cracked open the champagne, metaphorically of course, whenever the VW Polo got over 60). The Chim gives you bags of torque that shoves you forward in almost any gear. It requires bugger all skill to make it go bloody quickly in a straight line. Some people get a bigger kick out of revving the nuts off a turbocharged or VTECey engine. Personally, the Chim style makes me laugh. As to the handling, it make shake you round a bit on rougher surfaces and the camber can load up the steering, but you've still got a load of grip to play with and good feedback. And I could ramble on about the styling and noise...
Mine was well worth the 16 odd thousand ... was it worth double that to its first owner ... of course not, but then anyone who buys a car new needs their head examining if you just consider the financing.
Mine was well worth the 16 odd thousand ... was it worth double that to its first owner ... of course not, but then anyone who buys a car new needs their head examining if you just consider the financing.
I know where you're coming from pupp. Mine sits in the garage all week and then, if the weather is OK, it comes out for a blast at the weekend. Trouble is, this time of the year the weather aint that good, so pushing it to the limits is out of the question.
Wait for the dry weather, when you can get the roof off... it makes all the difference - sun on your face, v8 burble behind you, winding road ahead... The reason's for buying it will come flooding back. You can't tell me that an RS 2000's comes close when the sun is out.
Wait for the dry weather, when you can get the roof off... it makes all the difference - sun on your face, v8 burble behind you, winding road ahead... The reason's for buying it will come flooding back. You can't tell me that an RS 2000's comes close when the sun is out.
I'm not going to slag Pupp for speaking his mind. Too easy.
Everything he says is true. He just puts more importance on his car's failings than we do.
On a bumpy wet road, no TVR will progress as fast as a VR6 or even the VTEC. Not unless it's driven by an idiot.
The build quality isn't excellent. Just look at all the threads talking about bodging this and bodging that. The difference is that I am happy to accept those flaws for what the car is capable of on the right day.
I disagree with the worse than a good kit car idea. You must have ended up with a real shed if it's that bad. As for the engineering, who cares about full lock? Apart from Mr "If I'm not looking out of the rear window, I can save it!"
I bought my car at the beginning of last winter and spent the winter thinking 'maybe this wasn't such a good idea.' But as soon as spring started, I started grinning and I haven't stopped since.
Maybe you have ended up with a shed. I drove a Chim recently that left me cold. I think that, maybe, from time to time, you get a dud.
Sell it.
Everything he says is true. He just puts more importance on his car's failings than we do.
On a bumpy wet road, no TVR will progress as fast as a VR6 or even the VTEC. Not unless it's driven by an idiot.
The build quality isn't excellent. Just look at all the threads talking about bodging this and bodging that. The difference is that I am happy to accept those flaws for what the car is capable of on the right day.
I disagree with the worse than a good kit car idea. You must have ended up with a real shed if it's that bad. As for the engineering, who cares about full lock? Apart from Mr "If I'm not looking out of the rear window, I can save it!"
I bought my car at the beginning of last winter and spent the winter thinking 'maybe this wasn't such a good idea.' But as soon as spring started, I started grinning and I haven't stopped since.
Maybe you have ended up with a shed. I drove a Chim recently that left me cold. I think that, maybe, from time to time, you get a dud.
Sell it.
This could turn into a very interesting debate - it all hinges on what you want from a car. Most modern fast cars are designed to be idiot proof, rather than designed for drivers with genuine skill - the inherent safety of front wheel/4 wheel drive means that RS2000's, hot hatches, all that sort of stuff, are a hoot to drive because they are DESIGNED TO BE foolproof - consider that last word carefully - a TVR is an expensive race - bred car, and as such takes time and trouble to learn to drive hard. It is not mass produced by robots, and does not have a development budget of hundreds of millions, and so does break from time to time. It is a bespoke car, and all these can be seen as faults, just as easily as they can, as virtues. I'm sure the majority of us have owned hot hatches etc - I loved my Corrado VR6 -it was SOOO easy to go as fast as, well, any other hot hatch type thingy. Everyone knows that it is quite easy to chase a faster car, because you only need to follow - so a Golf GTI can easily stick with a Chimp on the motorway, but it will never have the grunt for fast B road overtaking, and will never give the sensation of having mastered a no-excuses sports car. Couple that with a soft top, gorgeous looks, great noise, individuality, heritage, and sense of occasion that I get whenever I drive my TVR, and it becomes a very attractive package. I see any number of people poring over my Chimp in car parks, I was even chatted to at a roundabout, by a bin lorry driver, who just asked me to rev the engine: a biker at a garage who said, "I've never owned a car, but if I did, your car is what I would have."
thankfully, a few people managed to see beyond the obvious, with cars such as Porsche's first efforts, and Ferrari must have made some dogs along the way - but there is a special feeling when you get into a TVR, and it isn't easy to explain.
I suppose it's like a lot of matters, of taste, style and personal appeal - if you have to ask why, you're in the wrong car!
By the way pupp, I have been critical of my Chimp in the past - the suspension/handling is hard and unforgiving, and it doesn't produce enough power. So, I'm trading up to a car that addresses all the dynamic faults of the Chimarea - the Tamora.I suspect hot hatches will be unable to live with it on ANY road, whether straight, bendy, uphill, down dale , whatever. TVR has been a serious car maker for perhaps 25 years, and have reached their position by luck and skill, but are know moving on to some seriously good machines. Ford, as an example, literally invented motorsport racing, and have a pedigree of 100 years of race car design. Their cars should be bloody good, shouldn't they?
However, I digress slightly. The very fact that modern cars are safe to drive, means that it is possible to get to the edes of yours, and the car's ability, without the fear of something nasty happening. A TVR requires a much higher level of driver skill and effort, to reach a similar area of the performance "envelope", and it is only time and effort that will give you the skill to really get under the skin of the TVR experience. Just because it's less accessible, just because you can't simply jump in to it, and go balls-out with impunity, doesn't make it a bad car, it may merely mean that you are mortal, like the rest of us. Go and do some track work, a few advanced driving technique courses, and apply those new skills to your TVR. You may get a pleasant surprise. Or sell it.
Edited by nubbin on Monday 21st January 23:20
thankfully, a few people managed to see beyond the obvious, with cars such as Porsche's first efforts, and Ferrari must have made some dogs along the way - but there is a special feeling when you get into a TVR, and it isn't easy to explain.
I suppose it's like a lot of matters, of taste, style and personal appeal - if you have to ask why, you're in the wrong car!
By the way pupp, I have been critical of my Chimp in the past - the suspension/handling is hard and unforgiving, and it doesn't produce enough power. So, I'm trading up to a car that addresses all the dynamic faults of the Chimarea - the Tamora.I suspect hot hatches will be unable to live with it on ANY road, whether straight, bendy, uphill, down dale , whatever. TVR has been a serious car maker for perhaps 25 years, and have reached their position by luck and skill, but are know moving on to some seriously good machines. Ford, as an example, literally invented motorsport racing, and have a pedigree of 100 years of race car design. Their cars should be bloody good, shouldn't they?
However, I digress slightly. The very fact that modern cars are safe to drive, means that it is possible to get to the edes of yours, and the car's ability, without the fear of something nasty happening. A TVR requires a much higher level of driver skill and effort, to reach a similar area of the performance "envelope", and it is only time and effort that will give you the skill to really get under the skin of the TVR experience. Just because it's less accessible, just because you can't simply jump in to it, and go balls-out with impunity, doesn't make it a bad car, it may merely mean that you are mortal, like the rest of us. Go and do some track work, a few advanced driving technique courses, and apply those new skills to your TVR. You may get a pleasant surprise. Or sell it.
Edited by nubbin on Monday 21st January 23:20
No, don't think it's a shed. Did look at and try quite a few and I think it's really pretty representative.
I'm actually quite prepared to forgive a lot for character or performance (or preferrably both), and I'm quite prepared to accept there could be better days ahead...certainly hope so.
Just don't think it's unreasonable to ask some hard questions. Why not when there's some serious mainstream tackle available for similar, or less, wonga?
V8??...just four TL1000s zip-tied together, innit!?
I'm actually quite prepared to forgive a lot for character or performance (or preferrably both), and I'm quite prepared to accept there could be better days ahead...certainly hope so.
Just don't think it's unreasonable to ask some hard questions. Why not when there's some serious mainstream tackle available for similar, or less, wonga?
V8??...just four TL1000s zip-tied together, innit!?
Pupp,
I have had TVRs now for 7 years and have never experienced what you have reported. I also can't agree with other comments that it is not possible to keep up with the odd Seat, Cossie or Beemer in the wet without being a nutter. Don't get me wrong, although I have been driving a long time I still have a hell of a lot to learn when it comes to driving skills. However, I still enjoy driving the Griff in the wet and winter driving gives me as much pleasure as summer driving.
You say your car is OK but it may be worth getting the suspension geometry checked over to see if that improves the handling. I can honestly say that I am perfectly happy with my Griff and it's build quality. The whole package is exactly what I had been looking for in a car.
Mike
I have had TVRs now for 7 years and have never experienced what you have reported. I also can't agree with other comments that it is not possible to keep up with the odd Seat, Cossie or Beemer in the wet without being a nutter. Don't get me wrong, although I have been driving a long time I still have a hell of a lot to learn when it comes to driving skills. However, I still enjoy driving the Griff in the wet and winter driving gives me as much pleasure as summer driving.
You say your car is OK but it may be worth getting the suspension geometry checked over to see if that improves the handling. I can honestly say that I am perfectly happy with my Griff and it's build quality. The whole package is exactly what I had been looking for in a car.
Mike
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