TVR Engines - AJP V8 & Speed Six
Discussion
First off - I'd like this thread to remain a reasoned debate rather than end up like lots of the other Speed Six threads.
The issues with the speed six engines have given the motor a scary reputation, with the upshot of warranty difficulties and dealers needing much higher margins. It is conceivable that even with all the bugs ironed out, potential customers will be wary of buying Speed Six engined TVRs.
TVR are heavily invested in this engine as it powers virtually all their cars. What alternatives have they got??
Well I was thinking that they could offer their existing AJP V8 in the current cars. Is this a silly suggestion (and why?). Would you find a T350 with the AJP V8 attractive? Would you buy a V8 Tuscan?
The V8 is an older design, of course, but what real advantage does the Speed Six have over the V8?
I'm interested in your opinions - and hope this thread remains constructive, I don't want to be seen as a firestarter.
The issues with the speed six engines have given the motor a scary reputation, with the upshot of warranty difficulties and dealers needing much higher margins. It is conceivable that even with all the bugs ironed out, potential customers will be wary of buying Speed Six engined TVRs.
TVR are heavily invested in this engine as it powers virtually all their cars. What alternatives have they got??
Well I was thinking that they could offer their existing AJP V8 in the current cars. Is this a silly suggestion (and why?). Would you find a T350 with the AJP V8 attractive? Would you buy a V8 Tuscan?
The V8 is an older design, of course, but what real advantage does the Speed Six have over the V8?
I'm interested in your opinions - and hope this thread remains constructive, I don't want to be seen as a firestarter.
Unfortunately they've designed the chassis for the new cars for the straight six and not the V8 which probably prevents its use.
Personally I think the straight six suits the character of the newer cars better but perhaps that's just because I've got used to the combination.
Finally - and without alluding to reliability issues - the standard straight six is considerably more powerful than the standard AJPs.
Personally I think the straight six suits the character of the newer cars better but perhaps that's just because I've got used to the combination.
Finally - and without alluding to reliability issues - the standard straight six is considerably more powerful than the standard AJPs.
cyberface said:
First off - I'd like this thread to remain a reasoned debate rather than end up like lots of the other Speed Six threads.
Whilst driving back from the dealers this morning, I was musing over starting a thread on this - again "without prejudice", etc. Personally, I opted for the AJP Cerbera largely because of reliability concerns. If that hadn't been a factor, I may well have got an S6 - either a Tuscan or a Cerb. I'm very interested in hearing whether people with more experience of the engine think the problems have largely been ironed out over the last couple of years or not.
It makes a lot of sense for TVR to rationalise it's engine production, and essentially concentrate on the sped six. It makes economic sense for the company, and should lead to a better product i.e. greater reliability for us.
The speed six seems to be more or less sorted, barring supplier problems/stupidity, and is very flexible in terms of power output - anthing from 350bhp to 440 (so far) and counting - is there going to be a 500bhp speed six, next year? It wouldn't surprise me. Or, will they bring out a V10 for that kind of output? Nothing would surprise me!
The speed six seems to be more or less sorted, barring supplier problems/stupidity, and is very flexible in terms of power output - anthing from 350bhp to 440 (so far) and counting - is there going to be a 500bhp speed six, next year? It wouldn't surprise me. Or, will they bring out a V10 for that kind of output? Nothing would surprise me!
Let's just think of the merits of the S6 vs V8 we'll be covering old ground again...PetrolTed said:
Unfortunately they've designed the chassis for the new cars for the straight six and not the V8 which probably prevents its use.
The AJP V8 is a very small engine though - as long as it's not physically too big or wide, surely it'd mainly be a question of using different engine mounts??
The Tuscan engine bay certainly looks as wide as the Cerbera IIRC, not sure about the T350 though as it's a smaller car all round...
I'm also pretty sure that the tuscan chassis won't house the AJPV8, the S6 is a great engine and more efficient than V8, i believe that once TVR have "ironed out" the reliability problems ( and possibly have already) this will be a long lived and highly regarded engine, it also lends its cylinder heads to the mighty speed 12, in case they ever decide to go there again.
Tim
Tim
loudpedal said:
Finally - and without alluding to reliability issues - the standard straight six is considerably more powerful than the standard AJPs.
If this is so, why do all the mags quote worse performance figures for the cerb s6 than for the Cerb V8 4.5? Other factors involved?
Depends on how you look at it. 360 from 3.6 or 100bhp/litre (impressive by any standards) or 420 from 4.5 which is a little less.
Added to which the AJP suffers from the blackpool shetland scenario more than the Speed 6
I believe the AJP engine would fit - it's very small
but the real reason probably lies with emmissions
- the AJP is a 2 valve head design which cannot hope
to compete with the S6 4 valve head design. It also
will be less powerful... The raw emmisions of the AJP V8 without cats is rumoured to be quite bad too..!
In theory and practice the S6 gives the best of all worlds - a nice easy to drive characher (day to day driving - at lower rev's) and high power top end punch
due to the better breathing abilities of the 4 valve
layout. All V8's have a very high torque low down - which day to day (say in the winter) is not desirable.
I also have a suspision that Al Melling (engine designer) might have been paid a royalty for each
unit built !
but the real reason probably lies with emmissions
- the AJP is a 2 valve head design which cannot hope
to compete with the S6 4 valve head design. It also
will be less powerful... The raw emmisions of the AJP V8 without cats is rumoured to be quite bad too..!
In theory and practice the S6 gives the best of all worlds - a nice easy to drive characher (day to day driving - at lower rev's) and high power top end punch
due to the better breathing abilities of the 4 valve
layout. All V8's have a very high torque low down - which day to day (say in the winter) is not desirable.
I also have a suspision that Al Melling (engine designer) might have been paid a royalty for each
unit built !
Does anyone know if a SP6 Cerb will ever have the RR option?? If not why? Or am I talking bollox??
Joospeed, don't say that man, I'm upset now
I hope they don't stop making it before I buy my spanking brand new Cerb V8 RR early 2004.
>> Edited by Big T on Thursday 25th September 09:36
Joospeed, don't say that man, I'm upset now
I hope they don't stop making it before I buy my spanking brand new Cerb V8 RR early 2004. >> Edited by Big T on Thursday 25th September 09:36
Big T said:It cant! I know one S6 Cerb though had the tuscan S engine.
Does anyone know if a SP6 Cerb will ever have the RR option?? If not why? Or am I talking bollox??
Joospeed, don't say that man, I'm upset now
>> Edited by Big T on Thursday 25th September 09:36
gazzab said:How do they do the Tuscan RR then with the S6 engine? Or am I talking bollox AGAIN??!!
Does anyone know if a SP6 Cerb will ever have the RR option?? If not why? Or am I talking bollox??
Joospeed, don't say that man, I'm upset now
>> Edited by Big T on Thursday 25th September 09:36
It cant!
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