It's the dealers not the factory that let TVR down
Discussion
To avoid the wrath of PetrolTed I shall not name names but I can honestly say I am sick and tired of the quality provided by TVR main dealers!
I bought a brand new TVR Chimaera 450 six months ago and I did realise that low volume hand built meant problems but...........
I bought the car from a local dealer and got a reasonable discount on the normal £37K price because it had been in their showroom for six months and they wanted to shift it for the new 2001 model.
When I collected the car I spotted a signifcant paint fault inside the door surrond of the body and of course nobody had seen this before even though it had sat in the showroom for six months but don't worry sir we'll get it aproved by TVR and sort it out. The car was supposed to have had a PDI.....so how come I am informed by a following driver that my brakelights aren't working and when I investigate I find I haven't even got a brakelight switch just two wires hanging down in the drivers footwell. I later discover that a wingnut is missing from one of the headlamp adjusters so the lights had never been aligned either.
Then the engine starts overheating, back to the dealer and the temp sensor is replaced, two scratches on the inner wing from the spanner used.
Then the exhaust manifold gasket goes, back to the dealer who replaces gasket and forgets to reconnect the electrics to the sensor in the manifold and leaves the pipes twisted so they bang against the body at the rear every time I start the car and go over a bump.
Three months later I am told they have approval for the paint job......the first time round I have never seen a worse job in all my life....primer left on panels, top coat sprayed into the black painted wheel arch, paint on the rear light, etc. and it wasn't even the same colour.....back it goes for a second attempt which was OK but not great...can see a line of primer under the hood but I let it go.
Enough of this dealer move to another dealer, who replaces the radiator, sump gasket and steering rack pipe cos they were all leaking. In replacing the radiator I finish up with two great scrapes out of the paintwork on both inner wings and no water in the header for the next couple of journeys cos they haven't bled the system out at all...left for me to do.
But hey they do seem to have finally got the car right. Back it goes for its 6000 mile service, 550 quid and they replace the coolant cos the antifreeze content is low....do they bled the system out...like hell they do. Within days the engine start popping and farting like mad.....I investigate and although I haven't found the answer yet I have found....half a thimble full of penetrating oil inside the rubber cap where the HT lead connects into the coil and three spark plug caps which have been wrecked when removed to replace the plugs. Oh yes, and another gouge on the inner wing where they slipped off a screw for the clutch fluid cover....they had painted this over with some touch-up paint and didn't bother to tell me of course.
My experience of TVR dealers thus far is that they are a total rip-off and couldn't give a sh*t about the car.
The only good experience I have had was with an independent (Adrian Venn in Coventry) who helped me out by replacing a broken headlamp lens on a Saturday at a very reasonable price and he got it right first time....no problems.
As soon as my factory warranty runs-out in six months time I will not be going back to the dealers....I will use a good independent.
By way of a suggestion, I think the dealers need to take a long hard look at the quality of the service they are providing to TVR owners particularly when they charge the sort of money they do charge.....£550 quid for a 6K service and leave you with a bunch of problems to sort out.
Why don't I take the car back to the dealer who did the service??? Cos they are 50 miles away and I'm going to get the sack soon for the amount of time I spend "getting the car fixed". I am going to take it to an independent and get it sorted out properly rather than piss around with the dealers!!!
Forgive me for this rant but I feel a bit better now but not much!!!
I still love the car cos it puts that stupid grin on my face every time I push my right foot down....except at the moment when it pops, farts and doesn't do much else!!!
I bought a brand new TVR Chimaera 450 six months ago and I did realise that low volume hand built meant problems but...........
I bought the car from a local dealer and got a reasonable discount on the normal £37K price because it had been in their showroom for six months and they wanted to shift it for the new 2001 model.
When I collected the car I spotted a signifcant paint fault inside the door surrond of the body and of course nobody had seen this before even though it had sat in the showroom for six months but don't worry sir we'll get it aproved by TVR and sort it out. The car was supposed to have had a PDI.....so how come I am informed by a following driver that my brakelights aren't working and when I investigate I find I haven't even got a brakelight switch just two wires hanging down in the drivers footwell. I later discover that a wingnut is missing from one of the headlamp adjusters so the lights had never been aligned either.
Then the engine starts overheating, back to the dealer and the temp sensor is replaced, two scratches on the inner wing from the spanner used.
Then the exhaust manifold gasket goes, back to the dealer who replaces gasket and forgets to reconnect the electrics to the sensor in the manifold and leaves the pipes twisted so they bang against the body at the rear every time I start the car and go over a bump.
Three months later I am told they have approval for the paint job......the first time round I have never seen a worse job in all my life....primer left on panels, top coat sprayed into the black painted wheel arch, paint on the rear light, etc. and it wasn't even the same colour.....back it goes for a second attempt which was OK but not great...can see a line of primer under the hood but I let it go.
Enough of this dealer move to another dealer, who replaces the radiator, sump gasket and steering rack pipe cos they were all leaking. In replacing the radiator I finish up with two great scrapes out of the paintwork on both inner wings and no water in the header for the next couple of journeys cos they haven't bled the system out at all...left for me to do.
But hey they do seem to have finally got the car right. Back it goes for its 6000 mile service, 550 quid and they replace the coolant cos the antifreeze content is low....do they bled the system out...like hell they do. Within days the engine start popping and farting like mad.....I investigate and although I haven't found the answer yet I have found....half a thimble full of penetrating oil inside the rubber cap where the HT lead connects into the coil and three spark plug caps which have been wrecked when removed to replace the plugs. Oh yes, and another gouge on the inner wing where they slipped off a screw for the clutch fluid cover....they had painted this over with some touch-up paint and didn't bother to tell me of course.
My experience of TVR dealers thus far is that they are a total rip-off and couldn't give a sh*t about the car.
The only good experience I have had was with an independent (Adrian Venn in Coventry) who helped me out by replacing a broken headlamp lens on a Saturday at a very reasonable price and he got it right first time....no problems.
As soon as my factory warranty runs-out in six months time I will not be going back to the dealers....I will use a good independent.
By way of a suggestion, I think the dealers need to take a long hard look at the quality of the service they are providing to TVR owners particularly when they charge the sort of money they do charge.....£550 quid for a 6K service and leave you with a bunch of problems to sort out.
Why don't I take the car back to the dealer who did the service??? Cos they are 50 miles away and I'm going to get the sack soon for the amount of time I spend "getting the car fixed". I am going to take it to an independent and get it sorted out properly rather than piss around with the dealers!!!
Forgive me for this rant but I feel a bit better now but not much!!!
I still love the car cos it puts that stupid grin on my face every time I push my right foot down....except at the moment when it pops, farts and doesn't do much else!!!
I agree entirely with the above - although my experience of dealerships is so far limited to one. Admittedly my car (Chimaera 450)was not new when I bought it, but was 18 months old and had done only 4k miles. A full TVR extended warranty was included in the price. I bought from a dealer for the "peace of mind", but am beginning to wonder if this is just a delusion.
There were a couple of minor problems to start with, an erratic speedometer and a windscreen washer tube that pulled off the nozzle on the bulkhead - snapping off the nozzle in the process so I couldn't replace it - the first time I used the wipers. Then the car started to overheat and boiled several times in traffic. I was also aware of a noise that sounded like a worn clutch thrust bearing when idling in neutral, but this seems minor and may, to be honest, have always been there, and may even be normal for the car. I took the car back to the dealers with a list of the above and they immediately were on the defensive - "the warranty won't cover this, the warranty won't cover that, the warranty won't cover diagnostic work" etc, etc. Never mind the fact that I had paid the thick end of £30k for the car barely 3 months earlier.
After MUCH debate they replaced the otter switch and "adjusted" the speedo with no charge. I was told the windscreen washers needed a new part fitted on the scuttle which a) they didn't have in stock and b)the warranty wouldn't cover. The idle noise "might be a problem and might not" but, you've guessed it, the warranty doesn't cover diagnostic work. I got the impression that they just weren't interested because it might cost them something.
The speedometer failed completely the day after it was repaired. The question is, do I go back to the same dealers (a round trip of 150 miles) and go through the same hassle again, do I try another dealers, or what? Bear in mind I have to have dealer "service" to maintain the warranty - for what it's worth!
The car is hugely enjoyable to drive and I love it, but the dealer experience is shyte!!! My point is that when these large dealerships take on a TVR franchise they must know that the cars will, by and large, need more attention than the average and should factor this in to their costings and not try and wriggle out of everything they can. Perhaps there are better dealers, I will certainly try and find one to do my routine servicing. If I had been treated better the original dealership would have got my servicing work, so they will lose out in the end.
So, Ford Prefect, could you e-mail me and let me know which dealers you are talking about. I suspect, from your location, that we might be talking about the same one. Sorry about the length of this post, but it helps to get it off your chest!
There were a couple of minor problems to start with, an erratic speedometer and a windscreen washer tube that pulled off the nozzle on the bulkhead - snapping off the nozzle in the process so I couldn't replace it - the first time I used the wipers. Then the car started to overheat and boiled several times in traffic. I was also aware of a noise that sounded like a worn clutch thrust bearing when idling in neutral, but this seems minor and may, to be honest, have always been there, and may even be normal for the car. I took the car back to the dealers with a list of the above and they immediately were on the defensive - "the warranty won't cover this, the warranty won't cover that, the warranty won't cover diagnostic work" etc, etc. Never mind the fact that I had paid the thick end of £30k for the car barely 3 months earlier.
After MUCH debate they replaced the otter switch and "adjusted" the speedo with no charge. I was told the windscreen washers needed a new part fitted on the scuttle which a) they didn't have in stock and b)the warranty wouldn't cover. The idle noise "might be a problem and might not" but, you've guessed it, the warranty doesn't cover diagnostic work. I got the impression that they just weren't interested because it might cost them something.
The speedometer failed completely the day after it was repaired. The question is, do I go back to the same dealers (a round trip of 150 miles) and go through the same hassle again, do I try another dealers, or what? Bear in mind I have to have dealer "service" to maintain the warranty - for what it's worth!
The car is hugely enjoyable to drive and I love it, but the dealer experience is shyte!!! My point is that when these large dealerships take on a TVR franchise they must know that the cars will, by and large, need more attention than the average and should factor this in to their costings and not try and wriggle out of everything they can. Perhaps there are better dealers, I will certainly try and find one to do my routine servicing. If I had been treated better the original dealership would have got my servicing work, so they will lose out in the end.
So, Ford Prefect, could you e-mail me and let me know which dealers you are talking about. I suspect, from your location, that we might be talking about the same one. Sorry about the length of this post, but it helps to get it off your chest!
Having calmed down a little since last night, I should add that this is not the complete list of problems but the others are bits and piece under a general heading of "things that you accept go wrong with a new car".
I did miss the one about the door that wouldn't open cos the lock had worked loose or more likely wasn't tightened up properly after the paint job!
I contacted an independent to look at the engine and guess what......he's too busy to look at it until the end of next week....I wonder why he's so busy....have a think dealers!!!
Am I alone in this view or should we expect a better standard of quality when paying the sort of money we are asked to pay?
Sorry about the spelling and typo errors in my previous posting but I was in a bad mood and typing fast.
I did miss the one about the door that wouldn't open cos the lock had worked loose or more likely wasn't tightened up properly after the paint job!
I contacted an independent to look at the engine and guess what......he's too busy to look at it until the end of next week....I wonder why he's so busy....have a think dealers!!!
Am I alone in this view or should we expect a better standard of quality when paying the sort of money we are asked to pay?
Sorry about the spelling and typo errors in my previous posting but I was in a bad mood and typing fast.
I actually found an good dealer, no really i did. They picked up the car with a posh truck so no one thrashed it, thats my job. I used them for 2 services and guess what, they fell out with the factory and went their different ways. Iam still looking for another, but so far, no good.
David
David
Hmmm, the dealer I know of that fell out (allegedly) with TVR actually drove my TVR into the wheel/tyre combo at the end of their flatbed truck. Cue two chuffing huge stone chips in the front of the car and no bloody admission on their part that they had anything to do with it.
Tip. When someone's putting your car on a flatbed, even if you've seen the same guy do it three times before, hang around and watch him like a hawk. The day you go inside and watch from an upstairs window ('cos you were in your dressing gown when he turned up) will be the day the dozy fecker forgets how long a TVR is.
(If you guys are still watching at that dealership, I'm still sore about that and the crack in the dashboard that appeared after the "fixed" and wonkily refitted speedo. Just can't be arsed with you lot, that's all.)
>> Edited by Marshy on Sunday 3rd February 00:36
Tip. When someone's putting your car on a flatbed, even if you've seen the same guy do it three times before, hang around and watch him like a hawk. The day you go inside and watch from an upstairs window ('cos you were in your dressing gown when he turned up) will be the day the dozy fecker forgets how long a TVR is.
(If you guys are still watching at that dealership, I'm still sore about that and the crack in the dashboard that appeared after the "fixed" and wonkily refitted speedo. Just can't be arsed with you lot, that's all.)
>> Edited by Marshy on Sunday 3rd February 00:36
Hmm,
You've all got me thinking now. My chim 450 is due for at 24K service next month, now the car is a 98R, and I'm seriously toying with the idea of going independant. My only concern is the impact on selling the car without the illustrious TVR service history. The earliest I would even get shot of it (trading up of course
) would be March 2003, making the car 5 years old...
Also the independant I have in mind is easier accessible from home / work and are recognised as been one of the best (Tower View).
I'm in justifing mood now, trying not to sound too tight but I fear that I may get stung for quite a sum when 24K service comes round.
Steve
You've all got me thinking now. My chim 450 is due for at 24K service next month, now the car is a 98R, and I'm seriously toying with the idea of going independant. My only concern is the impact on selling the car without the illustrious TVR service history. The earliest I would even get shot of it (trading up of course
) would be March 2003, making the car 5 years old... Also the independant I have in mind is easier accessible from home / work and are recognised as been one of the best (Tower View).
I'm in justifing mood now, trying not to sound too tight but I fear that I may get stung for quite a sum when 24K service comes round.
Steve
I think most people who want a TVR know that a good independant is as good as if not better than many main dealers.
If people don't know that when they are buying the car then they don't know enough about the cars and will probably sell it on after 6mths of ownership..
The dealership I use(d) has been good two out of the three times I have used them. I won't be using them again.
If people don't know that when they are buying the car then they don't know enough about the cars and will probably sell it on after 6mths of ownership..
The dealership I use(d) has been good two out of the three times I have used them. I won't be using them again.
I agree totally with the earlier comments regarding "authorised dealer" stamps. Once the car is out of warranty I would certainly go independent. Anybody worth their salt looking to invest their hard earned in a TVR is going to research the marque first (if a virgin TVR buyer) and there are plenty of respected independents around (we all know who they are from this site) - if they dont do they research they shouldn't be driving the cars anyway! A dealer's stamp in my experience is never a guarantee of either quality or service (mechanically or otherwise) all it does is "sometimes" ensure any remedial work is FOC during the warranty period. As always, particularly with the older cars the condition of the vehicle is as far more important than a bl**dy expensive stamp in the service record.
A lot of what you say is true. The dealers are in the main absolute rubbish. Most of them want to make £6000 per car either way in sales AND rip you off in service. I have changed dealer several times and have only recently found one that I trust (TMS) I'm not saying they are perfect but I have been very happy so far (I've had a Cerbera and now a Tamora) with sales and after sales. I'm not convinced service wise as I had my Griff serviced with them a couple of years ago and wasn't very happy. We will see in the next two years (while the Tamora is under warranty) how good they are.
There is no doubt that if I had a V8 powered car I would go to Offord or another specialist. Offord did my Griffith and many people in our region swear by them- they are excellent. I have also had my car done by a couple of so-called specialists and one of them was absolutely appaling. So beware there are loads of sharks out there. I still think TVR themselves share a part of the blame for all the bad dealers out there. They must have the ability to regulate them and quite obviously don't.....
There is no doubt that if I had a V8 powered car I would go to Offord or another specialist. Offord did my Griffith and many people in our region swear by them- they are excellent. I have also had my car done by a couple of so-called specialists and one of them was absolutely appaling. So beware there are loads of sharks out there. I still think TVR themselves share a part of the blame for all the bad dealers out there. They must have the ability to regulate them and quite obviously don't.....
quote:
I think most people who want a TVR know that a good independant is as good as if not better than many main dealers.
I would just like to follow on from this. I had to take my cebera in as it was grounding etc. As i had not had the car long it was my fist time of taking it to a dealership (dun dun durn)
After apprently assesing the car they called me to say that the shocks and springs and coils and everything else virtually to do with the suspention had gone.........couldn't get in on the warranty and over a £1000 repair bill, thank you very much.
"oh by the way we have not got any of the items in stock so we will call you when they are in. worst case two weeks".
Now thankfully i phoned up team central--(team pro-active as they are known by now. They are a specialist up in Birmingham which is 130 miles away from me. These are the guys who have previously sorted out my car b4 i got it.
After taking with they and they saying its unlikely to be all the problems listed above I took the plunge and drove up to them. They told me it was not my springs etc just a case of some new avo shocks.
Cutting a long story short. They service, repaired, put on the little extras that i wanted, cleaned, gave excellent customer service and all for £400.00 cheaper than those :bandits:at the dealership.
P.s phoned up the dealership eight weeks after out intial conversation to ask where my shocks are etc.
"oh yeah sorry mate we forgot to call ya"
Well i will never use them, and can assure you that team pro-actives service was perfect. Now i maybe taking out of turn as this is the only dealership i have dealt with, and all the other may be great. But if the guys from the dealership that i dealt with are listerning. you could really take a leaf out of the independant specilist book and learn about customer service.
It maybe 130 miles but certainly worth the journey. Thanx guys
It seems that this type of behaviour isnt limited to TVR dealers. Anyone read Autocar this week? They took the Evo they are running on the fleet to a Mitsubishi dealer to get it serviced. The chap arrives to collect the car only to see it being thrashed down the high street by one of the mechanics....
Autocar didnt make too much of that, but if it had been my car I would have gone balistic!!!!! I mean, you trust your car to a dealer to get it looked after only to find that it is being raced around - and this was to a journos car!! What the hell do they do to ordinary Jo Public???? Needless to day Autocar will be taking their Evo back to Ralliart and NOT to dealers again....
Makes you think. P.S. Oh, and last weeks bit about the new BMW 7 series made interesting reading about reliability...
Cheers,
Paul
Autocar didnt make too much of that, but if it had been my car I would have gone balistic!!!!! I mean, you trust your car to a dealer to get it looked after only to find that it is being raced around - and this was to a journos car!! What the hell do they do to ordinary Jo Public???? Needless to day Autocar will be taking their Evo back to Ralliart and NOT to dealers again....
Makes you think. P.S. Oh, and last weeks bit about the new BMW 7 series made interesting reading about reliability...
Cheers,
Paul
I am sure there must be one or two good dealers out there but I haven't managed to find one yet. Let's face it, the technology within a TVR Chimaera is not exactly leading edge....its a well tried and tested bloody great V8 lump catapulting 1200Kg of tubular steel and glassfibre at a rapid rate of knots.
Given the above and the prices charged why shouldn't we expect quality of service and duty of care for our cars that are not exactly cheap.
I had a Mercedes before the TVR and the dealers who serviced it couldn't do enough and always appeared to get it right first time ...... how much did I pay for the new Mercedes £34K so why shouldn't I expect similar quality servicing on a £37K car??
Given the above and the prices charged why shouldn't we expect quality of service and duty of care for our cars that are not exactly cheap.
I had a Mercedes before the TVR and the dealers who serviced it couldn't do enough and always appeared to get it right first time ...... how much did I pay for the new Mercedes £34K so why shouldn't I expect similar quality servicing on a £37K car??
Talking of seeing your car out and about while being looked at. I had a jap crap, lowered, stifened mx6 and went to pick it up and saw it doing smoke signals from the front wheels, a hand brake turn, as it went down a trading estate. I complained of course and awaited a reply from the lady boss. It was the bosses son taking it out on my car after his dad died, i left it.
It's interesting what comes through as you read this thread - One guy will think his dealer is awful and the next guy will think the same dealer is great. My own experiences over 7 years have been pretty mixed aswell. One of the midlands dealers mentioned on this thread as great, were little better than average with me, and in fact crashed my car when taking it for service!(they did fix it though)
I was also one of the first TVR service customers that TMS had back when it got the franchise They do appear to be pretty well thought of, with good reason if my own positive experience of them has been duplicated with other customers.
By far the worst for me ( and I can say this Ted 'cos they ain't in business no more) was Graypauls in Loughborough. They were also a Ferari dealer and the snotty attitude of their people towards TVRs was all too apparent. They charged me £600 (in 1994) for the 6k service on my Chim 4.3, and in the process broke the boot hinge and gouged a huge furrow in the rear wing (must have been there when it came in sir)
and when they fixed the faulty fuel tank sender unit they actually split the tank itself so that when I filled up the car 5 minutes after I collected it, all the petrol ended up in the boot. ( Not our fault sir, we didn't touch the sender unit(although it was listed as worked on on the service report!) "the tank must have spontaeneously split!")
I was so furious i phoned the factory and 4 months later Graypauls lost the franchise (Coincidence I think)and then the car went to TMS right up till I sold it.
Have a 400se now and used Wedge Auto,last time, Not franchised but the jobs get done!
Andy 400se
I was also one of the first TVR service customers that TMS had back when it got the franchise They do appear to be pretty well thought of, with good reason if my own positive experience of them has been duplicated with other customers.
By far the worst for me ( and I can say this Ted 'cos they ain't in business no more) was Graypauls in Loughborough. They were also a Ferari dealer and the snotty attitude of their people towards TVRs was all too apparent. They charged me £600 (in 1994) for the 6k service on my Chim 4.3, and in the process broke the boot hinge and gouged a huge furrow in the rear wing (must have been there when it came in sir)
and when they fixed the faulty fuel tank sender unit they actually split the tank itself so that when I filled up the car 5 minutes after I collected it, all the petrol ended up in the boot. ( Not our fault sir, we didn't touch the sender unit(although it was listed as worked on on the service report!) "the tank must have spontaeneously split!")
I was so furious i phoned the factory and 4 months later Graypauls lost the franchise (Coincidence I think)and then the car went to TMS right up till I sold it.
Have a 400se now and used Wedge Auto,last time, Not franchised but the jobs get done!
Andy 400se
Ford Prefect,
You mentioned the warranty. My WHA warranty runs out on mine next Month, so based on what you are saying after then, an extra dealer stamp ain't gonna make much difference (also taking into account the cars age 98R).
I think I'll get this service done by the dealer (HH) and see what happens. If its OK then chances are I'm happy to pay the extra. On the other hand......
Thanks, Steve
You mentioned the warranty. My WHA warranty runs out on mine next Month, so based on what you are saying after then, an extra dealer stamp ain't gonna make much difference (also taking into account the cars age 98R).
I think I'll get this service done by the dealer (HH) and see what happens. If its OK then chances are I'm happy to pay the extra. On the other hand......
Thanks, Steve
Andy,
Good point but at best doesn't this indicate that they are either inconsistently bad or good depending on your point of view.
I would expect them to be consistently good.
All I want is a dealer who treats the car with some respect particularly as I have invested a lot of money in it and gets it right first time most of the time.....is that too much to ask? I know they are only human but read my postings and tell me this is acceptable!
Good point but at best doesn't this indicate that they are either inconsistently bad or good depending on your point of view.
I would expect them to be consistently good.
All I want is a dealer who treats the car with some respect particularly as I have invested a lot of money in it and gets it right first time most of the time.....is that too much to ask? I know they are only human but read my postings and tell me this is acceptable!
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