Problems with re-starting TVR

[tvrpearl]

I have a 1997 TVR Chimaera 4.0 which I've had from new and have had some work done to it recently. However, I've had a return of an "old" problem.

I start the car - perfect. I drive the car - perfect. I park up and turn the engine off - perfect. When I go back to the car to restart it, it usually starts but, on occasions, nothing happens! As I turn the key, I hear a whining electric motor sound (fuel pump?) but no starter motor or anything else - completely dead. I wait about 20-30 minutes and it starts perfectly!!

Any ideas - could it be the immobiliser?

TVRpearl

[5.0ltr]

Sounds like a hot start issue? Especially as the fuel pump is priming. David Beer sells a kit that sorts this out.

[Blues]

5.0ltr said:

Sounds like a hot start issue? Especially as the fuel pump is priming. David Beer sells a kit that sorts this out.

Good piece of kit, very easy to fit

[tvrpearl]

Thanks for this - How do I get hold of David Beer?

TVRpearl

[Blues]

tvrpearl said:

Thanks for this - How do I get hold of David Beer?

TVRpearl

website & phone number :
Clicky

[sidpinup]

5.0ltr said:

Sounds like a hot start issue? Especially as the fuel pump is priming. David Beer sells a kit that sorts this out.

If you cant hear the starter motor as you say then its not a "hot start" issue. Could be as simple as a connection on the motor.

[GJR]

sidpinup said:

If you cant hear the starter motor as you say then its not a "hot start" issue. Could be as simple as a connection on the motor.

I had the exact same problem intermittently over a period of a couple of years. Go somewhere, stop, but when you try and start the car again I got the fuel pump whirr and then nothing on turning the key.

For ages I assumed it was the immobiliser playing up (at the time I'd never heard of the hot start issue) and even took it to an alarm specialist who said the alarm/immobiliser were fine. Eventually found out that the starter motor was on it's way out. While it worked fine most of the time, IIRC the garage said that occasionally the solenoid in the starter would fail to operate or jam.

New starter and the problem was solved.

Edited by GJR on Thursday 19th March 12:32

[Kwacker]

I had something similar, then it dissappeared for years. But it seems to be back after replacing the fuse board.

I racked my brains trying to remember how I sorted it, then had a brain wave. Stuck my foot out the door, with the car in second gear and rocked it back and forth a few times. Tried to start it and it roared into life.

I'm certain it is not the dreaded hot start issue, but I can't figure out exactly what it is. Maybe someone on here will explain to me why a little gentle rocking will get the old girl going.

Give that a try it might work.

Rockin away

Kwacker

[5.0ltr]

sidpinup said:

5.0ltr said:

Sounds like a hot start issue? Especially as the fuel pump is priming. David Beer sells a kit that sorts this out.

If you cant hear the starter motor as you say then its not a "hot start" issue. Could be as simple as a connection on the motor.

I do not know why you suggest this is not a hot start? It presents to the OP exactly as mine did on a Griff 5.0. Disarm alarm, hear pump whirring, turn key and nowt. Wait 20 mins and it would fire up, and I have tried rocking in gear to no avail. The Beer kit fixed it, never had a problem since.

[tvrpearl]

Thanks to everyone for the feedback. I've ordered the "mod" from the "Beer Boys" which will arrive first thing Saturday morning. It has cost me £23.50 which I reckon is a reasonable investment. If this doesn't work, then I'll try plan B!!

TVRpearl

[Cider Andy]

sidpinup said:

If you cant hear the starter motor as you say then its not a "hot start" issue.

If there's no activity from the starter motor/solenoid the very first thing I'd suspect would be the 'hot start' problem.

[GJR]

Kwacker said:

I racked my brains trying to remember how I sorted it, then had a brain wave. Stuck my foot out the door, with the car in second gear and rocked it back and forth a few times. Tried to start it and it roared into life.

I'm certain it is not the dreaded hot start issue, but I can't figure out exactly what it is. Maybe someone on here will explain to me why a little gentle rocking will get the old girl going.

That does sound like a jammed starter. When you turn the key to start the car a solenoid extends a geared/toothed shaft from the starter motor that engages the flywheel of the engine. When the engine fires and you let go of the ignition key the solenoid turns off and the starter motor shaft moves out of the way of the flywheel, back to it's original position.

When the starter motor begins to die the solenoid may not work at all, meaning the starter doesn't even engage with the flywheel, or (as was the case with mine, and by the sounds of it, yours) the starter engages and starts the engine, but then fails to disengage the flywheel.

So.... when the engine is cool, rocking the car a little may help free up the jammed flywheel and starter shaft, allowing the starter shaft to spring back to it's original position. And so the car can start again.

[Chimtastic]

GJR said:

Kwacker said:

I racked my brains trying to remember how I sorted it, then had a brain wave. Stuck my foot out the door, with the car in second gear and rocked it back and forth a few times. Tried to start it and it roared into life.

I'm certain it is not the dreaded hot start issue, but I can't figure out exactly what it is. Maybe someone on here will explain to me why a little gentle rocking will get the old girl going.

That does sound like a jammed starter. When you turn the key to start the car a solenoid extends a geared/toothed shaft from the starter motor that engages the flywheel of the engine. When the engine fires and you let go of the ignition key the solenoid turns off and the starter motor shaft moves out of the way of the flywheel, back to it's original position.

When the starter motor begins to die the solenoid may not work at all, meaning the starter doesn't even engage with the flywheel, or (as was the case with mine, and by the sounds of it, yours) the starter engages and starts the engine, but then fails to disengage the flywheel.

So.... when the engine is cool, rocking the car a little may help free up the jammed flywheel and starter shaft, allowing the starter shaft to spring back to it's original position. And so the car can start again.

thats right I had the same problem on my Chim and it was the starter. Got it reconditioned for £85 problem gone.

[red griff roger]

Slightly confused. I have had the same symptoms as the OP. First time I changed the starter motor, and the problem went away. But end of last summer, hot day, it came back, at the fuel station. Wait 20 min, and off she goes fine. I have just fitted the Beer Kit (sounds good anyway). Is this the hot start problem or not - key in, whirr of fuel pump, no starter. Leave it for a bit, and all OK?

[5.0ltr]

red griff roger said:

Slightly confused. I have had the same symptoms as the OP. First time I changed the starter motor, and the problem went away. But end of last summer, hot day, it came back, at the fuel station. Wait 20 min, and off she goes fine. I have just fitted the Beer Kit (sounds good anyway). Is this the hot start problem or not - key in, whirr of fuel pump, no starter. Leave it for a bit, and all OK?

Yep RGRoger sounds like the dreaded fault...

[GJR]

red griff roger said:

Slightly confused. I have had the same symptoms as the OP. First time I changed the starter motor, and the problem went away. But end of last summer, hot day, it came back, at the fuel station. Wait 20 min, and off she goes fine. I have just fitted the Beer Kit (sounds good anyway). Is this the hot start problem or not - key in, whirr of fuel pump, no starter. Leave it for a bit, and all OK?

The trouble is that the hot start problem and problems with the starter itself can give the same symptoms, Below is a quote from The Chimaera Pages..

"Why doesn't my car re-start when it's hot?

This is known as the hot-start problem. It is thought to be due a wire which drives the starter motor getting too hot, this in turn causes an increase in it's resistance stopping sufficient power getting through. Adding a relay will resolve the problem, and mod-wise sell a complete kit."

So the hot start issue is an electrical resistance problem at the starter that causes it to fail. Wait for it to cool and it's ok again. Problem is, if the starter itself has a mechanical problem such as worn brushes/motor/solenoid etc. then the it can appear to have the same solution as the hot start problem, i.e. let the components cool/contract and in 20 mins or so all is ok again.

In Kwacker's post above he mentioned that if he rocked the car the problem resolved. This might suggest a mechanical problem with the starter rather than a hot start issue, as an electrical resistance problem wouldn't be resolved by rocking the car.

It's worth remembering that these engines generate so much more heat than normal engines, and as such degrade components at a much faster rate than in normal cars. With that in mind it's not inconceivable that some components can fail in just a few years.

The modwise kit is definately a worth while and useful mod, but not all TVR's suffer from hot start and I think it's worth checking out the exact cause first. Having said that it's possible for a car to suffer both a knackered starter and the hot start at the same time !?!!?

Edited by GJR on Friday 20th March 12:38