No Market for New TVR's - would you agree?
Discussion
Hello All,
I can't get my head around why the only new Sagaris in the world (at Str8six) did not sell within days of going on sale (from their website look as if it is still on sale).
If I didn't already have a Sagaris, I would definately snap it up - for me, nothing touches a Sagaris below £100k.
Also see that Racing Green have not had any takers on their new Tuscans.
It seems little wonder the Russian isn't starting up again as there are no takers or am I trying to put 2 and 2 together and not coming up with 4????
Thoughts??
SAGTAFF
I can't get my head around why the only new Sagaris in the world (at Str8six) did not sell within days of going on sale (from their website look as if it is still on sale).
If I didn't already have a Sagaris, I would definately snap it up - for me, nothing touches a Sagaris below £100k.
Also see that Racing Green have not had any takers on their new Tuscans.
It seems little wonder the Russian isn't starting up again as there are no takers or am I trying to put 2 and 2 together and not coming up with 4????
Thoughts??
SAGTAFF
350Matt said:
theres no factory any more to back it up, most folks with 50K to spend on sprts car aren't the type to buy a car without this support.
^^^ This. The uncertainty over any warranty, the possibility of spares drying up, etc, etc...In 2005 I didn't even test drive a Cayman, I bought a T350. Right now that decision would likely be the other way around.
Sag is wrong colour and too expensive IMHO -62K is a lot of money for a pink car - although someone may well have bought it and PH calssifieds maybe out of date.
On the RG front, folk looking at the new Tuscans maybe wary over delivery....seems they take more time to complete than promised.
On the RG front, folk looking at the new Tuscans maybe wary over delivery....seems they take more time to complete than promised.
Edited by TVR_owner on Tuesday 11th August 13:06
SAGTAFF said:
Hello All,
I can't get my head around why the only new Sagaris in the world (at Str8six) did not sell within days of going on sale (from their website look as if it is still on sale).
If I didn't already have a Sagaris, I would definately snap it up - for me, nothing touches a Sagaris below £100k.
Also see that Racing Green have not had any takers on their new Tuscans.
It seems little wonder the Russian isn't starting up again as there are no takers or am I trying to put 2 and 2 together and not coming up with 4????
Thoughts??
SAGTAFF
I can't see any of these little groups making a few car really taking off, if there was a possible long term production of the cars from a reliable source, then maybe. I can't get my head around why the only new Sagaris in the world (at Str8six) did not sell within days of going on sale (from their website look as if it is still on sale).
If I didn't already have a Sagaris, I would definately snap it up - for me, nothing touches a Sagaris below £100k.
Also see that Racing Green have not had any takers on their new Tuscans.
It seems little wonder the Russian isn't starting up again as there are no takers or am I trying to put 2 and 2 together and not coming up with 4????
Thoughts??
SAGTAFF
Such a shame though, to drive a tvr is an experience hard to match with any car, to look at they are stunning & they are relatively cheap.
I think the reliability issues talked about in the past has killed the reputation, even people that know lack about cars see mine and say "nice car, but aren't they really unreliable?"
DOOMED
Wondering if I can go off topic slightly, to the current TVRs you can buy.
For 13-15k, you can pick up a good Cerbera. Apart from TVRs, is there ANY car out there for that price that can even equal it in terms of performance, comfort, looks, insanity, fun and practicality?
Okay, 3k per year sounds like a allot of money to keep one together. Here is the point: if you bought ANY 13-15k car, if you spent 3k a year on it, how long would it take for it to become equal to the Cerbera in terms of performance, comfort, looks, insanity, fun and practicality? Would it ever reach that point?
It puts it onto perspective.
For 13-15k, you can pick up a good Cerbera. Apart from TVRs, is there ANY car out there for that price that can even equal it in terms of performance, comfort, looks, insanity, fun and practicality?
Okay, 3k per year sounds like a allot of money to keep one together. Here is the point: if you bought ANY 13-15k car, if you spent 3k a year on it, how long would it take for it to become equal to the Cerbera in terms of performance, comfort, looks, insanity, fun and practicality? Would it ever reach that point?
It puts it onto perspective.
The Lukas said:
Wondering if I can go off topic slightly, to the current TVRs you can buy.
For 13-15k, you can pick up a good Cerbera. Apart from TVRs, is there ANY car out there for that price that can even equal it in terms of performance, comfort, looks, insanity, fun and practicality?
Okay, 3k per year sounds like a allot of money to keep one together. Here is the point: if you bought ANY 13-15k car, if you spent 3k a year on it, how long would it take for it to become equal to the Cerbera in terms of performance, comfort, looks, insanity, fun and practicality? Would it ever reach that point?
It puts it onto perspective.
Accept no substitutes, the Cerbera is an Automotive God...For 13-15k, you can pick up a good Cerbera. Apart from TVRs, is there ANY car out there for that price that can even equal it in terms of performance, comfort, looks, insanity, fun and practicality?
Okay, 3k per year sounds like a allot of money to keep one together. Here is the point: if you bought ANY 13-15k car, if you spent 3k a year on it, how long would it take for it to become equal to the Cerbera in terms of performance, comfort, looks, insanity, fun and practicality? Would it ever reach that point?
It puts it onto perspective.
Correct. There is no market for them. The "new" Tuscans that you talk about seem to be about £55,000.00. That is about the same price as a Nissan GT-R
The Sagaris seems to be about £62,000.00. That is about the same price as a Porsche 911.
The TVRs are kit cars. I make no comment or criticism about the standard of workmanship of the 2 garages that are building them as I know nothing about them. However they are using bits of left over TVRs from when the factory closed down and they maybe adding parts of their own.
I do not doubt that they need to charge the prices that they are asking to make a profit. A basic 1.4 Caterham is almost £15,500.00 if you want to factory to build it.
However the end result is an overpriced car. How can it compete with the 911 or the GT-R for warranty, handling, equipment, safety, build quality, reliability or comprehensive testing?
Neither would a "back to basics" car sell. Mr Melling tried that with his Wildcat that looked a lot like a Griffith. He is currently stating on his website that the current raffle, which I think was the fourth raffle, has not sold the minimum number of tickets, so there will be a refund and no more raffles for the time being.
The Sagaris seems to be about £62,000.00. That is about the same price as a Porsche 911.
The TVRs are kit cars. I make no comment or criticism about the standard of workmanship of the 2 garages that are building them as I know nothing about them. However they are using bits of left over TVRs from when the factory closed down and they maybe adding parts of their own.
I do not doubt that they need to charge the prices that they are asking to make a profit. A basic 1.4 Caterham is almost £15,500.00 if you want to factory to build it.
However the end result is an overpriced car. How can it compete with the 911 or the GT-R for warranty, handling, equipment, safety, build quality, reliability or comprehensive testing?
Neither would a "back to basics" car sell. Mr Melling tried that with his Wildcat that looked a lot like a Griffith. He is currently stating on his website that the current raffle, which I think was the fourth raffle, has not sold the minimum number of tickets, so there will be a refund and no more raffles for the time being.
[quote=RedTuscan]Correct. There is no market for them. The "new" Tuscans that you talk about seem to be about £55,000.00. That is about the same price as a Nissan GT-R
The Sagaris seems to be about £62,000.00. That is about the same price as a Porsche 911.
quote]
Not only that but if it were me and i def wanted a TVR over anything else (if i had the money to buy either) i would'nt. Apart from having the bragging rights to say i've bought the last built Tuscan/Sag (not Factory Though), Why would you????
Regarding Tuscan: I'd Spend £18-22k on a second hand one, take it to Power and have a 4.3 fitted, New Chassis if needed, Suspension upgrades, Retrim in a colour of MY choice, Re-Spray in a colour of MY choice etc etc and still have a 5 figure £ sum in change. Its a car to my Spec and i've saved a packet too!!!! Put a personal plate on and who could tell when it was built/made???
To a lesser saving the same applies to the Sag!!
Not having a go at RG or Str8six, but its just logical to me. The only reason would be bragging rights about having the newest possible car.
The Sagaris seems to be about £62,000.00. That is about the same price as a Porsche 911.
quote]
Not only that but if it were me and i def wanted a TVR over anything else (if i had the money to buy either) i would'nt. Apart from having the bragging rights to say i've bought the last built Tuscan/Sag (not Factory Though), Why would you????
Regarding Tuscan: I'd Spend £18-22k on a second hand one, take it to Power and have a 4.3 fitted, New Chassis if needed, Suspension upgrades, Retrim in a colour of MY choice, Re-Spray in a colour of MY choice etc etc and still have a 5 figure £ sum in change. Its a car to my Spec and i've saved a packet too!!!! Put a personal plate on and who could tell when it was built/made???
To a lesser saving the same applies to the Sag!!
Not having a go at RG or Str8six, but its just logical to me. The only reason would be bragging rights about having the newest possible car.
So it seems my original post was correct - even TVR people are saying there is no market for new TVR's!!!
I don't get why people compare a TVR to a Porsche or a Nissan GT-R though, I don't get how you could be in the market for both at the same time. They are nothing like each other. My mate has a 911 - you cannot fault it as a car, functionally has everything you could possibly want and does it very well.
However, my Sagaris has things that the Porsche cannot give you - polished aluminium bits, the individualism, character, etc, etc. But, it seems like people want functional cars rather than the raw TVR type.
The other point about warranty, not sure I buy that one - the back-up is just as good now as it was when the factory was open (is it not??).
Sad, would love to see TVR back in prodcution but starting to see that the Russian or anyone else has no chance as the market wants Porsche type cars for £60k+.
I don't get why people compare a TVR to a Porsche or a Nissan GT-R though, I don't get how you could be in the market for both at the same time. They are nothing like each other. My mate has a 911 - you cannot fault it as a car, functionally has everything you could possibly want and does it very well.
However, my Sagaris has things that the Porsche cannot give you - polished aluminium bits, the individualism, character, etc, etc. But, it seems like people want functional cars rather than the raw TVR type.
The other point about warranty, not sure I buy that one - the back-up is just as good now as it was when the factory was open (is it not??).
Sad, would love to see TVR back in prodcution but starting to see that the Russian or anyone else has no chance as the market wants Porsche type cars for £60k+.
SAGTAFF said:
So it seems my original post was correct - even TVR people are saying there is no market for new TVR's!!!
Not me, what I suggested was that there was no market for expensive cars with odd colour schemes and cars that folk were struggling to deliver in agreed timescales.May well be a market for new TVRs, but the market may not be the same price, quality and performance slot that was previously enjoyed.
On the prices of these new cars, I'm not sure how much they cost to put together but given their very limited and finite availability the builders would be daft to do anything but stick a very hefty price tag on them to see who bites. A sale now or in 9 months makes no difference, they might as well see what they can get.
Will be interesting to see who goes for them first. And how much they pay.
PS I really liked the pink sag when I saw it in the flesh... Strangely looks very red on the pics though.
Will be interesting to see who goes for them first. And how much they pay.
PS I really liked the pink sag when I saw it in the flesh... Strangely looks very red on the pics though.
Edited by winters on Tuesday 11th August 15:50
SAGTAFF said:
So it seems my original post was correct - even TVR people are saying there is no market for new TVR's!!!
I don't get why people compare a TVR to a Porsche or a Nissan GT-R though, I don't get how you could be in the market for both at the same time. They are nothing like each other. My mate has a 911 - you cannot fault it as a car, functionally has everything you could possibly want and does it very well.
However, my Sagaris has things that the Porsche cannot give you - polished aluminium bits, the individualism, character, etc, etc. But, it seems like people want functional cars rather than the raw TVR type.
The other point about warranty, not sure I buy that one - the back-up is just as good now as it was when the factory was open (is it not??).
Sad, would love to see TVR back in prodcution but starting to see that the Russian or anyone else has no chance as the market wants Porsche type cars for £60k+.
Nah, you just have to be a bit more realistic about the numbers than Smolenski was with his pipe dreams of 5,000 a year. One of the reasons TVR got in trouble is that at its 1,900 per annum peak output it had grown too big for its own good and wasn't a long-term sustainable operation anymore. Meanwhile Wiessmann is happily chugging along at 3-400 a year (OK, they also have the hard top business) and Donkervoort at a fraction of that (but they have the racing/events - just like TVR used to have with the Tuscans). Also, at the current exchange rates new TVRs would be rather attractive to the Euro market (which houses a fairly substantial number of hardcore British sports car nuts, most of them fairly well situated, too) and TBH I don't see the £/euro change very significantly very soon.I don't get why people compare a TVR to a Porsche or a Nissan GT-R though, I don't get how you could be in the market for both at the same time. They are nothing like each other. My mate has a 911 - you cannot fault it as a car, functionally has everything you could possibly want and does it very well.
However, my Sagaris has things that the Porsche cannot give you - polished aluminium bits, the individualism, character, etc, etc. But, it seems like people want functional cars rather than the raw TVR type.
The other point about warranty, not sure I buy that one - the back-up is just as good now as it was when the factory was open (is it not??).
Sad, would love to see TVR back in prodcution but starting to see that the Russian or anyone else has no chance as the market wants Porsche type cars for £60k+.
Edited by 900T-R on Tuesday 11th August 16:00
Podie said:
Would rather wait and see if Ginetta produce a roadgoing G50...
well it is on the website but is it in production yet 
Price is tba + vat 
tubbystu said:
Podie said:
Would rather wait and see if Ginetta produce a roadgoing G50...
well it is on the website but is it in production yet Price is tba + vat 
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