Discussion
Hi,
I've had my Chim since July now but don't seem to be able to get the high speed braking sorted. The time when you're changing down and braking at the same time whilst tring alos to blip the throttle.
What position should my feet be in to best achieve this? Toes on the brake and heel the throttle or the otherway around?
Cheers
Guys
Lee
I've had my Chim since July now but don't seem to be able to get the high speed braking sorted. The time when you're changing down and braking at the same time whilst tring alos to blip the throttle.
What position should my feet be in to best achieve this? Toes on the brake and heel the throttle or the otherway around?
Cheers
Guys
Lee
I don't think there is one way to achieve this. In the Cerb my feet are too big and I have to put my right foot on the brake and rock it from side to side thereby using the edge of my foot for the accelerator.
On the BMW there is a good distance, heel on the brake toe on the accelerator.
Whatever is comfortable and gives you good control.
On the BMW there is a good distance, heel on the brake toe on the accelerator.
Whatever is comfortable and gives you good control.
we have a leven pedal set in ours, and the brake and throttle are about a centimeter apart, and are level when untouched. it's possible to blip the throttle with the side of my foot, although I require much more practice..... so am doing it all a lot slower at the moment until it becomes second nature......
I've been doing it on my cars (Impreza turbo, Evo 6, Legacy GTB, Mazda RX7) for about the last five years. Started off doing side-to-side, but then with a bit of practice moved to heel-on-throttle. Like you say, just requires some practice, although brake sensitivity and pedal positioning make a big difference. Don't know about TVRs as I don't own one (yet!). Driven wife's cars just as much, and can't do it on any of her last 3 cars (Puma - pedal positioning problems, Leon Cupra - massively overservoed brakes, Mondeo - positioning again). Proper heel and toe seems to give much more control than side-to-side.
Andrew
Andrew
I use the side of my foot against the throttle pedal. But it does depend a lot how the pedals are set up and also on the relative sensitivity of throttle and brake. Some modern cars I've driven have so much dead travel on the throttle and such sensitive brakes that it is virtually impossible, and some helpfully cut the engine when you touch the brakes which makes it completely impossible. Luckily these cars are all fwd so heel-and-toe is much less important compared to a rear-wheel-drive TVR.
I think ball-of-foot and side is easier. it seems smoother. heel and toe originated when cars had a central throttle and brakes which needed a good shove.
the key is when you put in the throttle blip, and if you do a double de-clutch as well. getting the revs matched is also crucial.
i find the best way is to concentrate on the brakes, de-clutch, push the lever to neutral, clutch up, catch the throttle with the side of my foot as I press the clutch in again and slide the gear in.
takes practice but can do it all in about 1 second now or i guess half a second with no double de-clutch.
now defunct, ccc magazine had a driving fast guide a while back which covered this. think evo mag did something similar as part of the john lyon articles.
the key is when you put in the throttle blip, and if you do a double de-clutch as well. getting the revs matched is also crucial.
i find the best way is to concentrate on the brakes, de-clutch, push the lever to neutral, clutch up, catch the throttle with the side of my foot as I press the clutch in again and slide the gear in.
takes practice but can do it all in about 1 second now or i guess half a second with no double de-clutch.
now defunct, ccc magazine had a driving fast guide a while back which covered this. think evo mag did something similar as part of the john lyon articles.
tuscan_thunder said:
i find the best way is to concentrate on the brakes, de-clutch, push the lever to neutral, clutch up, catch the throttle with the side of my foot as I press the clutch in again and slide the gear in.
takes practice but can do it all in about 1 second now or i guess half a second with no double de-clutch.
that sounds like what I'm practising.....
I double de-clutched for nearly 20 yrs until a couple of years ago an instructor called me a dinosaur! (I don't do it anymore!)
I found the hardest bit to get right was letting the clutch out fast enough so that the revs haven't dropped too much. I also find it difficult if I'm not braking hard so I don't use it much on the road.
I found the hardest bit to get right was letting the clutch out fast enough so that the revs haven't dropped too much. I also find it difficult if I'm not braking hard so I don't use it much on the road.
Double declutching might come in handy if your 'box doesn't have any synchromesh (or you've cooked the synchros) but I think for most of us it is unnecessary. On the other hand, matching revs on down shifts is IMO absolutely essential learning for any TVR driver, and heel-and-toe is a very useful technique to do this under braking. (If you can't heel-and-toe then you need to come off the brakes and blip the throttle during the downshift, which is much slower to do and disturbs the car more.)
“Heal and toe” implies, brake with your heel then blip the throttle with your toe, this is definitely not the case.
The ball of the foot is used on the brake, and depending upon the distance of the throttle to the brake and the size of your feet, the side of the foot is rolled over to the throttle, or the foot is pivoted on the ball of the foot to the throttle to enable the blip.
I have to use the heel on the throttle in any road going TVR as the distance is to large for my size 8 feet, I can get away with the roll of the foot in any of the road TVR’s that have the flaw mounted peddle box but to ensure consistency and safety (you always want to be able to push the brake hard enough) I use my heal.
Double declutching is not required, unless the car is very old, it simply adds time and an extra process that is not required!
The clutch goes in, throttle then blipped lower gear selected clutch up all whilst maintaining even pressure on the brake, always use one press of the clutch per gear.
As far as TVR’s go any thing with the rover V8, I have found needs a good long pronounced stab on the throttle to get the revs up to match the lower gear selected. The newer engines AJP and speed 6 are far freer revving and only a blip is needed.
A few things that I have found is that the harder and faster you are driving (preferably track days) the easier and smoother it becomes and you are less likely to blip the throttle to much.
Any car that has lots of servo assist and brake peddle movement it very hard to easily heal and toe.
I hope this helps some one and sorry if my explanation is all over the place, I imagine most out there in piston-land already know about heal and toeing but what is true is it is definitely faster, easier on the car and a skill that once mastered makes you smile!
cheers Charlie
The ball of the foot is used on the brake, and depending upon the distance of the throttle to the brake and the size of your feet, the side of the foot is rolled over to the throttle, or the foot is pivoted on the ball of the foot to the throttle to enable the blip.
I have to use the heel on the throttle in any road going TVR as the distance is to large for my size 8 feet, I can get away with the roll of the foot in any of the road TVR’s that have the flaw mounted peddle box but to ensure consistency and safety (you always want to be able to push the brake hard enough) I use my heal.
Double declutching is not required, unless the car is very old, it simply adds time and an extra process that is not required!
The clutch goes in, throttle then blipped lower gear selected clutch up all whilst maintaining even pressure on the brake, always use one press of the clutch per gear.
As far as TVR’s go any thing with the rover V8, I have found needs a good long pronounced stab on the throttle to get the revs up to match the lower gear selected. The newer engines AJP and speed 6 are far freer revving and only a blip is needed.
A few things that I have found is that the harder and faster you are driving (preferably track days) the easier and smoother it becomes and you are less likely to blip the throttle to much.
Any car that has lots of servo assist and brake peddle movement it very hard to easily heal and toe.
I hope this helps some one and sorry if my explanation is all over the place, I imagine most out there in piston-land already know about heal and toeing but what is true is it is definitely faster, easier on the car and a skill that once mastered makes you smile!
cheers Charlie
In order to match the engine revs to the road speed, so that the revs arn't dragged up by the road speed when you re-engage the clutch. The engines torque and light weight of the cars can cause your back wheels to effectivly lock if you use the clutch/road speed to bring the revs up when you change down for a corner, leaving you in the same situation as if you'd pulled the handbrake on.......
Hopefully I've explained this fairly well.....
brakes are for slowing, gears are for going... or something like that, anyway.
Hopefully I've explained this fairly well.....
brakes are for slowing, gears are for going... or something like that, anyway.
cosmoschick said:
Why do you need to blip the throttle when braking/changing down at high speed?
'Cos if you're changing down, for any given speed you need higher revs in the lower gear than you were using in the higher gear. Hence a blip of throttle whilst gear-changing increases the revs to match and make a smotth downchange.
However, since you need to use all three pedals at once to pull off this stunt, and most of us are limited to two feet, you have to spread one foot across two pedals. Then you crash!
cosmoschick said:
I know I'm going to regret asking this but could one of you guys please explain to me what you are all on about...
Why do you need to blip the throttle when braking/changing down at high speed?
Sorry to be so ignorant!!
>> Edited by cosmoschick on Wednesday 7th January 22:23
Dont worry hun your not the only one
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