Copyright permission to use TVR Logo
Discussion
Sorry, I think you misunderstand. The car seats are currently being recovered. The company I am using I am very happy with, I just need to know if there is a copyright issue here, and do I need permission to reproduce the TVR logo. (I know some griffs / Chimps did come with the option of having it added at the factory, so is there potential for infringment if I reporduce the Logo on my TVR ?
TVR own the copyright to the logo and you need permission to reproduce it. End of story.
I don't see a problem but a simple letter or phone call would simply solve the problem. The reason why the recoverer (??) is worried is that there has been quite a clampdown recently on names and logos from Car companies. Mini is one that comes to mind.
I don't see a problem but a simple letter or phone call would simply solve the problem. The reason why the recoverer (??) is worried is that there has been quite a clampdown recently on names and logos from Car companies. Mini is one that comes to mind.
Semantics really but it's a trademark rather than a copyright issue. But the facts are the same - you need permission to reproduce someone's trademark.
That said, I don't suppose TVR would be concerned about it in the context you describe.
The real problem with unauthorised reproduction of trademarks is when the company producing them is profiting from the process. They are then deriving benefit from the trademark which isn't theirs. The trademark holder is the one that has created value in the mark.
That said, I don't suppose TVR would be concerned about it in the context you describe.
The real problem with unauthorised reproduction of trademarks is when the company producing them is profiting from the process. They are then deriving benefit from the trademark which isn't theirs. The trademark holder is the one that has created value in the mark.
Bodo said:
Interesting topic.
Is there no (legal) difference between commercial and private use of a logo/trademark?
Good point, but if you are just replacing an existing logo on a seat its a bit different to printing 5000 T shirts woth the logo on them & earning a profit from the companies name.
Having said that, I can understand why the seat repairers would be nervous, at least they had the foresight to mention it.
Nick
Bodo said:
Interesting topic.
Is there no (legal) difference between commercial and private use of a logo/trademark?
No. But it can get quite complicated with trademarks become generic like Hoover for instance and it also depends on the circumstances. The Mini one is quite interesting in that the term Mini has become generic and many comapnies use the term in the business. many of them received a desist now letter from BMW when the new Mini came out. Most companies told them to go away etc as the had been using it for many many years and the previous owners had not enforced their protection. The term Mini had become generic. Because of this, BMW have lost control (to some degree) over the trademark Mini. Copyright is slightly different in that the rights are created when the work is created and that is it. Trademarks have to be enforced and protected continually to ensure the protection.
Isn't that why the new mini is spelt MINI rather than mini or Mini so they can trademark MINI ?
shpub said:
Bodo said:
Interesting topic.
Is there no (legal) difference between commercial and private use of a logo/trademark?
No. But it can get quite complicated with trademarks become generic like Hoover for instance and it also depends on the circumstances. The Mini one is quite interesting in that the term Mini has become generic and many comapnies use the term in the business. many of them received a desist now letter from BMW when the new Mini came out. Most companies told them to go away etc as the had been using it for many many years and the previous owners had not enforced their protection. The term Mini had become generic. Because of this, BMW have lost control (to some degree) over the trademark Mini. Copyright is slightly different in that the rights are created when the work is created and that is it. Trademarks have to be enforced and protected continually to ensure the protection.
pdV6 said:
IIRC somebody used to produce TVR badging by changing the number of "stripes", so that it was subtly different from the trademarked version. Don't know if that still applies...
No doesn't work as this is what a lot of conterfeit goods use to try and get round the issue. You are still using the basic design.
If you changed the number of stripes and the lettering font and applied it to a product that had nothing to do with TVR you might get away with it...
That would be a weak defence in the eyes of the law. It would still be seen as an attempt at passing off.
Interestingly, TVR recently increased the scope of their trademark to include computer games and clothing:
http://webdb4.patent.gov.uk/tm/number?detailsrequested=C&trademark=2343460
...and their EU wide trademark for the cars:
http://oami.eu.int/Search/Trademark/la/EN_TM_Detail.cfm?ID=000061283&CFID=7125827&CFTOKEN=39252485
Interestingly, TVR recently increased the scope of their trademark to include computer games and clothing:
http://webdb4.patent.gov.uk/tm/number?detailsrequested=C&trademark=2343460
...and their EU wide trademark for the cars:
http://oami.eu.int/Search/Trademark/la/EN_TM_Detail.cfm?ID=000061283&CFID=7125827&CFTOKEN=39252485
Use of TVR logo on seats:
This raises both a copyright and a trademark issue.
Since the logo is a graphic work, copying it breaches TVR's copyright. No defence seems available in this case.
TVR also have a registered Community trademark for the word TVR (rather than the logo). Of course, reproducing the logo reproduces the word, hence infringement. However, YOU are not using the mark ing the course of trade, hence you do not infringe.
However, the person doing the work is affixing it to goods in the course of trade and they will infringe. You could try arguing 'badge of allegiance' as a defence but it didn't do Mr Reed much good. A better defence could be under section 11(2)(b) of the act - describing characteristics of the goods.
'Passing off' mentioned by someone else is a bit like an unregistered trademark - here again you might succeed on the 'descriptiveness' defence but I can't see it going a different way to the registered right.
Easiest course is to seek TVR's permission.
This raises both a copyright and a trademark issue.
Since the logo is a graphic work, copying it breaches TVR's copyright. No defence seems available in this case.
TVR also have a registered Community trademark for the word TVR (rather than the logo). Of course, reproducing the logo reproduces the word, hence infringement. However, YOU are not using the mark ing the course of trade, hence you do not infringe.
However, the person doing the work is affixing it to goods in the course of trade and they will infringe. You could try arguing 'badge of allegiance' as a defence but it didn't do Mr Reed much good. A better defence could be under section 11(2)(b) of the act - describing characteristics of the goods.
'Passing off' mentioned by someone else is a bit like an unregistered trademark - here again you might succeed on the 'descriptiveness' defence but I can't see it going a different way to the registered right.
Easiest course is to seek TVR's permission.
PetrolTed said:
That would be a weak defence in the eyes of the law. It would still be seen as an attempt at passing off.
Interestingly, TVR recently increased the scope of their trademark to include computer games and clothing:
http://webdb4.patent.gov.uk/tm/number?detailsrequested=C&trademark=2343460
...and their EU wide trademark for the cars:
http://oami.eu.int/Search/Trademark/la/EN_TM_Detail.cfm?ID=000061283&CFID=7125827&CFTOKEN=39252485
Ted, the second link has "expired". I tried going back to home and request search under TVR but not successful. Any
?OHIM obviously don't allow this type of link.
Are you sure you are looking in the right place - you either need to use the search pane on the English homepage or database CTM-ONLINE,
All it tells you is that TVR have a registration for the word mark TVR for 'Motor cars and parts and fittings therefor included in class 12'.
Just as well as their UK registration for cars has expired.
As Petrolted said, TVr have broader protection in the UK (actually their mark has not yet been granted, but it has been advertised and, as not opposed will soon proceed to grant).
Are you sure you are looking in the right place - you either need to use the search pane on the English homepage or database CTM-ONLINE,
All it tells you is that TVR have a registration for the word mark TVR for 'Motor cars and parts and fittings therefor included in class 12'.
Just as well as their UK registration for cars has expired.
As Petrolted said, TVr have broader protection in the UK (actually their mark has not yet been granted, but it has been advertised and, as not opposed will soon proceed to grant).
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