Chassis protection - keeping body on
Discussion
I’m sure variations of this has been done to death, but could anyone give me advice for my specific situation?
My ’98 Chimaera has got a fresh sprayed coating of black Waxoyl on the underside of the chassis and on part of the wishbones. I can see a couple of little areas where it could do with a little "Waxoyl touch-up" just to make everything water tight for the winter.
During my research looking at the various Waxoyl products, I came across threads on PH which suggested that Waxoyl might not be the best stuff, and might actually trap water in. (?)
Most PH TVR owners agreed that Dinitrol or POR 15 was the better stuff, with a full prep including painting and sealing, etc.
The problem is that I don’t have the room (or skill) to do body-lift jobs or even for taking suspension parts off to create access!
So, should I:
A) Buy a Waxoyl aerosol can just for squirting on the parts of the chassis I can get to without stripping parts off or lifting the body?
B) Buy a tub of Waxoyl (designed for use with a spray gun) and paint this on with a brush
Or, more drastically;
C) Try and remove all the Waxoil I can see with the body in place and applying another product like Dinitrol or POR 15?
My ’98 Chimaera has got a fresh sprayed coating of black Waxoyl on the underside of the chassis and on part of the wishbones. I can see a couple of little areas where it could do with a little "Waxoyl touch-up" just to make everything water tight for the winter.
During my research looking at the various Waxoyl products, I came across threads on PH which suggested that Waxoyl might not be the best stuff, and might actually trap water in. (?)
Most PH TVR owners agreed that Dinitrol or POR 15 was the better stuff, with a full prep including painting and sealing, etc.
The problem is that I don’t have the room (or skill) to do body-lift jobs or even for taking suspension parts off to create access!
So, should I:
A) Buy a Waxoyl aerosol can just for squirting on the parts of the chassis I can get to without stripping parts off or lifting the body?
B) Buy a tub of Waxoyl (designed for use with a spray gun) and paint this on with a brush
Or, more drastically;
C) Try and remove all the Waxoil I can see with the body in place and applying another product like Dinitrol or POR 15?
My advice is to start by removing the old Waxoyl.
Its the only way to know what's really going on.
Well its the only way to know what's going on with the bits of the chassis you can see.
Ask yourself these two questions.
1) Why was the Waxoyl applied in the first place?
2) What's it hiding?
A quick blow over with Waxoyl is often used before selling a car as a cheap way to make a nasty looking chassis appear like a well loved one.
You may of cause find a wonderfully preserved chassis and I hope you do.
But if you just blow more Wayoil or Dintrol over the old without a proper inspection you may just be storing up trouble for the future.
Once you have a clearer picture of your chassis condition you can start to plan your next steps.
Find a local guy with a steam cleaning lance that does lorries and the like, it will be the best £30 - £40 you will spend.
Its the only way to know what's really going on.
Well its the only way to know what's going on with the bits of the chassis you can see.
Ask yourself these two questions.
1) Why was the Waxoyl applied in the first place?
2) What's it hiding?
A quick blow over with Waxoyl is often used before selling a car as a cheap way to make a nasty looking chassis appear like a well loved one.
You may of cause find a wonderfully preserved chassis and I hope you do.
But if you just blow more Wayoil or Dintrol over the old without a proper inspection you may just be storing up trouble for the future.
Once you have a clearer picture of your chassis condition you can start to plan your next steps.
Find a local guy with a steam cleaning lance that does lorries and the like, it will be the best £30 - £40 you will spend.
Without lifting the body you'll never be able to properley check the state of the metal or apply some new protection (whicheve system you use).
If you don't have the time/space/skills to do it yourself then I would recommend paying someone (you trust) to do it for you. Even then I would ask to be able to inspect the chassis when it was lifted so I could take some photos befoer a nd after treatment (useful for the history file too).
The chassis is a vital component that needs looking after as much (if not more) as any other part of the car).
You can do a partial lift so the body is about 2 inches above the chassis that gives you enough room to attend to the most expeosed and frequently damaged areas. this avoids the need for much of the disconnection that the fully body off needs.
It's not technically very difficult to do if you approach it in a systematic manner. If you are only interested in checking/protecting the chassis then it's shouldn't take too long. It's all the other jobs that you think "while I've got the body off it would be an ideal time to....." that increase the time.
If you don't have the time/space/skills to do it yourself then I would recommend paying someone (you trust) to do it for you. Even then I would ask to be able to inspect the chassis when it was lifted so I could take some photos befoer a nd after treatment (useful for the history file too).
The chassis is a vital component that needs looking after as much (if not more) as any other part of the car).
You can do a partial lift so the body is about 2 inches above the chassis that gives you enough room to attend to the most expeosed and frequently damaged areas. this avoids the need for much of the disconnection that the fully body off needs.
It's not technically very difficult to do if you approach it in a systematic manner. If you are only interested in checking/protecting the chassis then it's shouldn't take too long. It's all the other jobs that you think "while I've got the body off it would be an ideal time to....." that increase the time.
I have seen your videos Quinny - I don't think my chassis will be in that condition! 
I actually saw mine before they Waxoyled it and there were areas along the outriggers where the previous layer of waxoyl was peeling off revealing some rust. It certainly wasn't worse than 98% of the other Chims/Griffs I had a good look at at the dealers.
A full restoration job may be something for next year but for now I want to just 'touch up as best I can' to get me through the winter. Remember, I am not planning on taking it out in the wet/salt/slush.
I have been in the garage tonight having a good poke around underneath the Chim.
I tapped the outriggers with spanner and no area sounded particularly 'dead'. I have quite small fingers and I was able to reach quite far towards the top of the outriggers from the inside edge - no holes where I could reach!
The waxoyl coating was mainly intact but I felt a couple of small areas where stuff was flaking off (the 'flakes' were black one side (waxoyl?) white on the other (powder coat?). This was mainly on one tube near the wishbones that angled up form the front outrigger corner towards the engine bay.
As I am not planning a full chassis refurb just yet, so I am currently planning jacking the car up and doing the following -
1) remove the small flaking sections and gently sand/clean
2) paint bare metal with white Hammerite, let dry
3) coat with spray with black Waxoyl
4) generally add waxoyl to any other areas such as spraying onto the top of outriggers
Is there any merit in doing this, or is it not likely to make any difference for one ‘dry’ winter?
I actually saw mine before they Waxoyled it and there were areas along the outriggers where the previous layer of waxoyl was peeling off revealing some rust. It certainly wasn't worse than 98% of the other Chims/Griffs I had a good look at at the dealers.
A full restoration job may be something for next year but for now I want to just 'touch up as best I can' to get me through the winter. Remember, I am not planning on taking it out in the wet/salt/slush.
I have been in the garage tonight having a good poke around underneath the Chim.
I tapped the outriggers with spanner and no area sounded particularly 'dead'. I have quite small fingers and I was able to reach quite far towards the top of the outriggers from the inside edge - no holes where I could reach!
The waxoyl coating was mainly intact but I felt a couple of small areas where stuff was flaking off (the 'flakes' were black one side (waxoyl?) white on the other (powder coat?). This was mainly on one tube near the wishbones that angled up form the front outrigger corner towards the engine bay.
As I am not planning a full chassis refurb just yet, so I am currently planning jacking the car up and doing the following -
1) remove the small flaking sections and gently sand/clean
2) paint bare metal with white Hammerite, let dry
3) coat with spray with black Waxoyl
4) generally add waxoyl to any other areas such as spraying onto the top of outriggers
Is there any merit in doing this, or is it not likely to make any difference for one ‘dry’ winter?
Just a thought but waxoyl seems to have fallen out of favor recently, certainly from my experience Dinitrol is a much better product (if more expensive). I believe practical classic mag did a test also.
Plus the dintrol has a sort of 2 stage coating, a brown penetrating wax which creeps into all the nooks and crannies and then a 'waxoyl type' top layer to protect against stone chips, salt, fuel etc. I used this on my MK1 escort and it still looked good and was solid a few years later when i stripped it all off again, no mean feet for a 70's ford. Oh and I used the escort throughout the snow, ice and rain in the winter
Just from my experience having used waxoyl on other cars it seems to degrade alot quicker
Plus the dintrol has a sort of 2 stage coating, a brown penetrating wax which creeps into all the nooks and crannies and then a 'waxoyl type' top layer to protect against stone chips, salt, fuel etc. I used this on my MK1 escort and it still looked good and was solid a few years later when i stripped it all off again, no mean feet for a 70's ford. Oh and I used the escort throughout the snow, ice and rain in the winter
Just from my experience having used waxoyl on other cars it seems to degrade alot quicker
I had a look at the 'simple' 2 inch body lift process, but even that seems quite complex to me!
And then there is talk of taking the chassis to engineering shops for shot blasting, dipping, etc.
Any of these things would require me to buy a load of equipment (extra axel stands, tools, grinders, trailor, etc) that I do not have any room to store.
Is it possible to just drive the car somewhere and get them to manage the whole process from body lift to welding, shot blasting to putting everything back together?
If so, where do you take it for this service and how much time/money would I be looking at?
And then there is talk of taking the chassis to engineering shops for shot blasting, dipping, etc.
Any of these things would require me to buy a load of equipment (extra axel stands, tools, grinders, trailor, etc) that I do not have any room to store.
Is it possible to just drive the car somewhere and get them to manage the whole process from body lift to welding, shot blasting to putting everything back together?
If so, where do you take it for this service and how much time/money would I be looking at?
FreeLitres said:
I had a look at the 'simple' 2 inch body lift process, but even that seems quite complex to me!
And then there is talk of taking the chassis to engineering shops for shot blasting, dipping, etc.
Any of these things would require me to buy a load of equipment (extra axel stands, tools, grinders, trailor, etc) that I do not have any room to store.
Is it possible to just drive the car somewhere and get them to manage the whole process from body lift to welding, shot blasting to putting everything back together?
If so, where do you take it for this service and how much time/money would I be looking at?
Ok so if you aren't going to lift the body this is what I would do.And then there is talk of taking the chassis to engineering shops for shot blasting, dipping, etc.
Any of these things would require me to buy a load of equipment (extra axel stands, tools, grinders, trailor, etc) that I do not have any room to store.
Is it possible to just drive the car somewhere and get them to manage the whole process from body lift to welding, shot blasting to putting everything back together?
If so, where do you take it for this service and how much time/money would I be looking at?
1) Have the local lorry steam clean guy get rid of the old Waxoyl
2) Inspect thoroughly
3) Allow to dry for at least 24 hours, driving the car on a dry road works best or you can use a leaf blower
4) Use a wire brush to strip loose paint/powder coat and surface corrosion
5) Carefully mask off the lower edges of the car
6) Make up a strong solution of Bilt & Hamber Deox-C in a 10 ltr pressure sprayer
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PRESSURE-SPRAYER-10-LITRE-WE...
7) Spray the Deox-C under pressure into the inaccessible areas, soak it well
8) Apply a layer of Bilt & Hamber Deox-Gel to the exposed parts of the chassis
9) Leave the car for 24 hours
10) Clean off the excess Deox-Gel using rags and a solution of baking soda in your pressure sprayer
11) Allow to dry for at least 24 hours driving the car on a dry road or you can use the leaf blower again
12) Apply a coat of PoR 15 to the exposed parts of the chassis
13) Allow to dry for 24 hours
14) Apply Bilt & Hamber Dynax S50 anti-corrosion wax or Dinitrol 3125 under pressure to the inaccessible areas of the chassis
15) Apply Bilt & Hamber Dynax UB or Dinitrol 4941 t the exposed areas of the chassis
If you really want to go to town you can brush on a layer of Bilt & Hamber Hydrate 80 between steps 11 & 12.
However my experiences of PoR 15 are that it should be applied directly onto a bare prepped metal surface, a pitted surface is best.
I have not tested the adhesion of PoR 15 over Hydrate 80 yet.
You need to set aside two or three weekends to do the job and its no fun lying on your back getting covered in s
t.Ultimately even if you follow all 15 steps you are still none the wiser about whats really going on with the hidden parts of the chassis.
But at least the Deox-C solution & Dynax S50 will help to neutralise the hidden corrosion.
You could of cause skip steps 1 to 15 completely and pay someone else to do it for you.
If you do it yourself I wouldn't mind betting that half way through the job you will be seeing this option as very attractive indeed.
got my 97 4.2 cerbera up on a proper ramp at the week end .
only had car since July this year brought from Ireland the country not the man !
i was told the frame was covered in por15 ,it looked ok when i had a nose round then. up on the ramps what a good way to work under walking up right instead of on the floor. car was well looked after por15 every were ,out rigger fine every thing was spot less other than flat bits were water had sat cleaned them up with wire brush, coat of hammerite then wash down frame degrease everything .heat up 2.5 L of clear waxyol spray everything in sight .shes now happy to live outside for the winter.
other than a body off what more can i do, im happy
only had car since July this year brought from Ireland the country not the man !
i was told the frame was covered in por15 ,it looked ok when i had a nose round then. up on the ramps what a good way to work under walking up right instead of on the floor. car was well looked after por15 every were ,out rigger fine every thing was spot less other than flat bits were water had sat cleaned them up with wire brush, coat of hammerite then wash down frame degrease everything .heat up 2.5 L of clear waxyol spray everything in sight .shes now happy to live outside for the winter.
other than a body off what more can i do, im happy
remove the old waxoyl , i would then seal again with Bilt Hamber Dynax S50 - very easy to apply and not as messy as waxoyl http://www.bilthamber.com/coatings.html
Edited by jayplay28 on Tuesday 19th October 10:10
FreeLitres said:
Is it possible to just drive the car somewhere and get them to manage the whole process from body lift to welding, shot blasting to putting everything back together?
If so, where do you take it for this service and how much time/money would I be looking at?
Yep - that's exactly what I'm currently having done on a car that I've just bought. The body is currently off, the outriggers will be cut off and replaced, then the whole lot shot-blasted and re-powdercoated. In my case the whole lot is costing about £3000, although I'm expecting extra costs and there will be some optional extras on top of that. It's being done at Willow Sports Cars in Newark-on-Trent.If so, where do you take it for this service and how much time/money would I be looking at?
Here's a picture of the work in progress:
Has anyone used clear Waxoyl? Is that any better for being able to see the underlying state of the metal?
I'm also wondering how best to protect the newly-refurbished chassis. I'll avoid using it when the roads are wet and salty, but I'm not sure if I'll be able to resist driving it on dry salty roads. I'm thinking that a dose of clear Waxoyl as soon as possible would be a good move; would it also be a good idea to jet-wash underneath the car periodically or will that destroy the layer of Waxoyl?
It's not just me that has stopped using waxoyl in favour of dintrol 3125 & 4941. A quick google search shows up several enthusiast forums with this topic of discussion, practical classic magazine ran a test a while ago and found dinitrol to be far better than waxoil
If you can't remove every last bit of your current wax protection then you are much better off sticking with a wax based product as POR15 or epoxy resin paints won't work on top of little bits of left over wax.
I had lengthy conversations with the guys www.rust.co.uk, they sell POR15, epoxy paints, waxoyl and dinitrol. I phoned them and got a lot more detail but this is the original email response they sent:
Once the wayoyl is on you either have to carry on with a wax system or remove it to paint.
To use Epoxy-mastic remove all of the existing waxoyl with solvents and scrapers ( not an easy job) when you are back to sound clean steel you can apply the Epoxy-Mastic.
You could upgrade the wax system which may be preferable certainly easier.
Remove any dry flaking waxoyl any loose paint and rust back to sound pitted steel. Apply a coat of Rustbuster Fe-123 converter to the bare steel areas and allow to dry.
This can then be over coated with Dinitrol 4941 for a satin black wax finish. You can apply this by brush or aerosol. The 4941 will withstand salt and wear better than the Waxoyl, it will not react with the waxoyl. Regards
Rustbuster Ltd
When i phoned they said for the best protection to apply dinitrol 3125 under the 4941. Obviously if the body is off then you can ensure that all the wax is off but unless you do that you can't.
If you can't remove every last bit of your current wax protection then you are much better off sticking with a wax based product as POR15 or epoxy resin paints won't work on top of little bits of left over wax.
I had lengthy conversations with the guys www.rust.co.uk, they sell POR15, epoxy paints, waxoyl and dinitrol. I phoned them and got a lot more detail but this is the original email response they sent:
Once the wayoyl is on you either have to carry on with a wax system or remove it to paint.
To use Epoxy-mastic remove all of the existing waxoyl with solvents and scrapers ( not an easy job) when you are back to sound clean steel you can apply the Epoxy-Mastic.
You could upgrade the wax system which may be preferable certainly easier.
Remove any dry flaking waxoyl any loose paint and rust back to sound pitted steel. Apply a coat of Rustbuster Fe-123 converter to the bare steel areas and allow to dry.
This can then be over coated with Dinitrol 4941 for a satin black wax finish. You can apply this by brush or aerosol. The 4941 will withstand salt and wear better than the Waxoyl, it will not react with the waxoyl. Regards
Rustbuster Ltd
When i phoned they said for the best protection to apply dinitrol 3125 under the 4941. Obviously if the body is off then you can ensure that all the wax is off but unless you do that you can't.
Thanks for the link, although there's a slight typo in it due to a spurious comma. Here's the working link: www.rust.co.uk
Gassing Station | General TVR Stuff & Gossip | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff