Chim/Griff wheels - what size for a non-PAS 500?
Discussion
Hi,
I'm picking up my 2nd TVR in (let me see...) 2 days and 23 hours
and I have a question. I've hinted at this in threads on the Chimaera section, but thought I'd open it up to the floor so to speak...
What do you reckon is likely to be the best handling wheel and tyre (size) combination for a 1997 Chimaera 500 without power steering?
It's intended as a road car and occasional track toy, so feedback, progression and balance are more important than outright grip (within reason). I gather, for example, that most non-PAS cars run slightly narrower fronts to reduce the weight of the steering, but some people believe this induces understeer? Also, are they particularly sensitive to unsprung weight - is that a major factor?
It's running 18" wheels all round with rubber band tyres (made by an oriental brand I've never heard of) and I suspect these could be a bit tricky on the limit. Plus, I'm still undecided on the 'modded' look. I think 15/16" Estorils are probably the favoured option as I believe that's what the car would have had originally(?)
Chris
I'm picking up my 2nd TVR in (let me see...) 2 days and 23 hours
and I have a question. I've hinted at this in threads on the Chimaera section, but thought I'd open it up to the floor so to speak...What do you reckon is likely to be the best handling wheel and tyre (size) combination for a 1997 Chimaera 500 without power steering?
It's intended as a road car and occasional track toy, so feedback, progression and balance are more important than outright grip (within reason). I gather, for example, that most non-PAS cars run slightly narrower fronts to reduce the weight of the steering, but some people believe this induces understeer? Also, are they particularly sensitive to unsprung weight - is that a major factor?
It's running 18" wheels all round with rubber band tyres (made by an oriental brand I've never heard of) and I suspect these could be a bit tricky on the limit. Plus, I'm still undecided on the 'modded' look. I think 15/16" Estorils are probably the favoured option as I believe that's what the car would have had originally(?)
Chris
To do this properly choose your tyres and then choose a wheel size to fit.
The original wheel sizes were fine for the original tyres (215/225) but due to a lack of tyres in those sizes and in UHP rubber most people seem to be of the opinion that a penalty in wheel size and weight can be offset by the better rubber available in the larger sizes.
The original wheel sizes were fine for the original tyres (215/225) but due to a lack of tyres in those sizes and in UHP rubber most people seem to be of the opinion that a penalty in wheel size and weight can be offset by the better rubber available in the larger sizes.
I run 225 on the front of my non-PAS Grif and find it OK to manuevre, and no one would describe me as strong. Steering feels a bit heavy, but as long as you have the car moving slightly then it's manageable.
I have run Michelin Pilot Sport Cup trackday tyres for a long time, and find them excellent. Good feel and great handling - felt like I'd had a suspension upgrade when they replaced the old Bridgestone S02. Seem to last quite well too.
I have run Michelin Pilot Sport Cup trackday tyres for a long time, and find them excellent. Good feel and great handling - felt like I'd had a suspension upgrade when they replaced the old Bridgestone S02. Seem to last quite well too.
spend said:
16" std wheels all round and 225F + 245R (45/16) is the easy way for what you want IMHO.
Wasn't that run on some of the last of the line Griffs or something as standard? I know it's usually 15" front 16" rear...I presume the weak point is getting sufficiently wide, sufficiently speed-rated road tyres to fit 15" front wheels?
Also, how likely am I to have problems with PCD, offset and so on? What are the other things I need to check before committing to a different set?
Thanks gents.
It was Griff SE's and last Chims with the faired in headlights that used the combo I think?. Also the factory brake upgrade (spiders, AP's etc) also gave the combination provenance.
Basically extra rear wheels added to the front. You have greater choice of 16" rubber, suitable 15" in terms of stiffness & speed rating is somewhat problematic. Many of us have 225 with non-PAS so I wouldn't consider it a problem, although you'll have plenty advocating skinnier rubber...
Lock can be restricted... if it bothers you rack spacers (just plastic shims to restrict lock - 10 mins to slip under gaiters) can be fitted or faff around fitting wheel spacers. TVR 16" spider upgrade used rack spacers, thats what I have and I'd always take the factory options as first plan of attack IYSWIM.
Basically extra rear wheels added to the front. You have greater choice of 16" rubber, suitable 15" in terms of stiffness & speed rating is somewhat problematic. Many of us have 225 with non-PAS so I wouldn't consider it a problem, although you'll have plenty advocating skinnier rubber...
Lock can be restricted... if it bothers you rack spacers (just plastic shims to restrict lock - 10 mins to slip under gaiters) can be fitted or faff around fitting wheel spacers. TVR 16" spider upgrade used rack spacers, thats what I have and I'd always take the factory options as first plan of attack IYSWIM.
I don't think there is a definitive answer, some tyres foul the bodywork in others the wheel can touch on the wishbone.. Just get a pack of the plastic spacers and insert until happy. If you need more .. but best to get the rack centred and geo done first I'd say, not like it's a big deal driving whilst remembering not to use full lock for a short while?
Presumably you'd want to space out the rear wheels too, in order to avoid changing the track ratio? Certainly a big back of spacers would give me something else to play with.
The idea is to get the wheels and tyres sorted and then book it in to somewhere like Topcats for a fast road geo setup immediately after.
The idea is to get the wheels and tyres sorted and then book it in to somewhere like Topcats for a fast road geo setup immediately after.
Chris71 said:
Presumably you'd want to space out the rear wheels too, in order to avoid changing the track ratio? Certainly a big back of spacers would give me something else to play with.
The idea is to get the wheels and tyres sorted and then book it in to somewhere like Topcats for a fast road geo setup immediately after.
The idea of the spacers/stops at the front is because the front ET is 25 whereas the rear wheels which are usually fitted to the front are ET35.The idea is to get the wheels and tyres sorted and then book it in to somewhere like Topcats for a fast road geo setup immediately after.
Chris71 said:
Hi,
I'm picking up my 2nd TVR in (let me see...) 2 days and 23 hours and I have a question. I've hinted at this in threads on the Chimaera section, but thought I'd open it up to the floor so to speak...
What do you reckon is likely to be the best handling wheel and tyre (size) combination for a 1997 Chimaera 500 without power steering?
It's intended as a road car and occasional track toy, so feedback, progression and balance are more important than outright grip (within reason). I gather, for example, that most non-PAS cars run slightly narrower fronts to reduce the weight of the steering, but some people believe this induces understeer? Also, are they particularly sensitive to unsprung weight - is that a major factor?
It's running 18" wheels all round with rubber band tyres (made by an oriental brand I've never heard of) and I suspect these could be a bit tricky on the limit. Plus, I'm still undecided on the 'modded' look. I think 15/16" Estorils are probably the favoured option as I believe that's what the car would have had originally(?)
Chris
Upto the late 90's the non PAS Chim had 205's and the PAS had 215's,but really its a case of if you aren't that bothered about the heavy steering(as you tend to get used to it anyway)it doesnt matter what you have on the front with in reason.I'm picking up my 2nd TVR in (let me see...) 2 days and 23 hours
and I have a question. I've hinted at this in threads on the Chimaera section, but thought I'd open it up to the floor so to speak...What do you reckon is likely to be the best handling wheel and tyre (size) combination for a 1997 Chimaera 500 without power steering?
It's intended as a road car and occasional track toy, so feedback, progression and balance are more important than outright grip (within reason). I gather, for example, that most non-PAS cars run slightly narrower fronts to reduce the weight of the steering, but some people believe this induces understeer? Also, are they particularly sensitive to unsprung weight - is that a major factor?
It's running 18" wheels all round with rubber band tyres (made by an oriental brand I've never heard of) and I suspect these could be a bit tricky on the limit. Plus, I'm still undecided on the 'modded' look. I think 15/16" Estorils are probably the favoured option as I believe that's what the car would have had originally(?)
Chris
There is no understeer on the narrower tyres as far as i'm concerned as long as you have the correct tyre pressure in them
JR said:
Chris71 said:
Presumably you'd want to space out the rear wheels too, in order to avoid changing the track ratio? Certainly a big back of spacers would give me something else to play with.
The idea is to get the wheels and tyres sorted and then book it in to somewhere like Topcats for a fast road geo setup immediately after.
The idea of the spacers/stops at the front is because the front ET is 25 whereas the rear wheels which are usually fitted to the front are ET35.The idea is to get the wheels and tyres sorted and then book it in to somewhere like Topcats for a fast road geo setup immediately after.
I trust TVR (and have experience personally) that the 225/245 widths are OK on non-PAS, and trust that rears on the front are OK due to the number of owners that have been happy with it.
You can always tweak anything to improve it, but as I understand it Chris want's a quick fix to ditch his 'unsatisfactory' current combination. I'd just be of the opinion that 16" fronts are the minimum to allow for tyre selection and brake upgrades, given he wants a fast road / occasional track car. There is just as likely to be someone prepared to swap their 16+16" for his 17/18" as a 15+16" owner, as the 16+16" owner has already started on the slippery slope IYSWIM
What about tyre availability? As I understand it the standard 245R 205F setup is still available, but you just have to compromise on the front speed rating to a mere 149mph.
Surely you're not likely to exceed 150mph in a Chimaera on any UK track? And I guess even if you do it's only an arse-covering the exercise by the tyre manufacturers - it's not actually likely to disintegrate at 149.1mph?
Surely you're not likely to exceed 150mph in a Chimaera on any UK track? And I guess even if you do it's only an arse-covering the exercise by the tyre manufacturers - it's not actually likely to disintegrate at 149.1mph?
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