Budget tyres, are they that bad?
Discussion
Hi guys.
After reading through a thread about what puts you off buying a car I decided to ask probably quite an obvious question.
To give a bit of background I had to replace all 4 tyres on my car a few weeks ago and was able to get them done by a family friend who sells tyres (obviously). But all 4 were budget tyres, all the same brand, but some un-pronouncable name all the same. But when speaking to the guy putting them on he was saying that he never puts expensive tyres on a car, as they don't make a bad tyre anymore.
I was just wandering is this the case, or was he just saying this? He did also add 'I just wouldn't be doing 90mph into any corners,' although this isn't something I would plan on doing on the roads in my area. Sorry if this has been asked before.
Craig.
After reading through a thread about what puts you off buying a car I decided to ask probably quite an obvious question.
To give a bit of background I had to replace all 4 tyres on my car a few weeks ago and was able to get them done by a family friend who sells tyres (obviously). But all 4 were budget tyres, all the same brand, but some un-pronouncable name all the same. But when speaking to the guy putting them on he was saying that he never puts expensive tyres on a car, as they don't make a bad tyre anymore.
I was just wandering is this the case, or was he just saying this? He did also add 'I just wouldn't be doing 90mph into any corners,' although this isn't something I would plan on doing on the roads in my area. Sorry if this has been asked before.
Craig.
bert454 said:
Hi guys.
After reading through a thread about what puts you off buying a car I decided to ask probably quite an obvious question.
To give a bit of background I had to replace all 4 tyres on my car a few weeks ago and was able to get them done by a family friend who sells tyres (obviously). But all 4 were budget tyres, all the same brand, but some un-pronouncable name all the same. But when speaking to the guy putting them on he was saying that he never puts expensive tyres on a car, as they don't make a bad tyre anymore.
I was just wandering is this the case, or was he just saying this? He did also add 'I just wouldn't be doing 90mph into any corners,' although this isn't something I would plan on doing on the roads in my area. Sorry if this has been asked before.
Craig.
No they are not bad. Drive accordingly.After reading through a thread about what puts you off buying a car I decided to ask probably quite an obvious question.
To give a bit of background I had to replace all 4 tyres on my car a few weeks ago and was able to get them done by a family friend who sells tyres (obviously). But all 4 were budget tyres, all the same brand, but some un-pronouncable name all the same. But when speaking to the guy putting them on he was saying that he never puts expensive tyres on a car, as they don't make a bad tyre anymore.
I was just wandering is this the case, or was he just saying this? He did also add 'I just wouldn't be doing 90mph into any corners,' although this isn't something I would plan on doing on the roads in my area. Sorry if this has been asked before.
Craig.
Define "that bad".
One could argue that the most important aspect of a tyre's performance is the stopping distances it generates in poor conditions from motorway speeds, where the best and worst road tyres differ to around 25%. However, the difference between the best high-performance road tyre and the best budget tyre is ~10%; the worst "mid-range" tyres are worse than the best "budget" tyres.
Here's a big independent braking test: http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2012-Autobild...
I suspect there's a certain amount of experimental error, but it probably wont be far off.
One could argue that the most important aspect of a tyre's performance is the stopping distances it generates in poor conditions from motorway speeds, where the best and worst road tyres differ to around 25%. However, the difference between the best high-performance road tyre and the best budget tyre is ~10%; the worst "mid-range" tyres are worse than the best "budget" tyres.
Here's a big independent braking test: http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2012-Autobild...
I suspect there's a certain amount of experimental error, but it probably wont be far off.
Compared to higher quality tyres by the big name brands yes they will be far, far worse, particularly in the wet. I really don't see the point in skimping on the only thing that keeps you connected to the road. The old "I don't drive like a racing driver so I don't need good tyres" is such nonsense - you can't control whether or not you'll have to perform an emergency stop in order to avoid the child, person, or car that has just run out in front of you.
Anyone who says their cheap chinese tyres are just as good as a more expensive set of Goodyears is just trying to justify their tightarsedness.
Anyone who says their cheap chinese tyres are just as good as a more expensive set of Goodyears is just trying to justify their tightarsedness.
Howard- said:
The old "I don't drive like a racing driver so I don't need good tyres" is such nonsense - you can't control whether or not you'll have to perform an emergency stop in order to avoid the child, person, or car that has just run out in front of you.
No, but you can entirely control the speed you have to perform it from. A Nangkang will stop from 30mph faster than an Eagle F1 will stop from 33.
Edited by kambites on Saturday 3rd May 09:28
Howard- said:
By that logic, let's all buy s
t tyres and drive at 5mph everywhere... 
You could stop without tyres from 5mph faster than with the best tyres. t tyres and drive at 5mph everywhere... 
It is a simple statement of fact that you can make the stopping distances on cheap tyres match those of more expensive ones by driving slightly slower. That's part of what people mean when they say drive to the grip levels of your tyres.
Cheap tyres are not dangerous if you drive accordingly. The fact that very few people do drive accordingly is beside the point.
Edited by kambites on Saturday 3rd May 09:32
kambites said:
You could stop without tyres from 5mph faster than with the best tyres.
Be a bit noisy though 
kambites said:
It is a simple statement of fact that you can make the stopping distances on cheap tyres match those of more expensive ones by driving slightly slower.
Obviously a crap tyre will stop faster from 30mph than a good one will from 50mph but that's not really a sensible comparison. If you're driving along a 50mph A road at 50mph, in the wet, but with good visibility, and someone pulls out in front of you, you've got a better chance of stopping before hitting them if you've got decent tyres than if you've got a set of Wan Li Ditchfinders. This isn't really disputable. Edited by Howard- on Saturday 3rd May 09:34
You seem to be missing the point. The point is that in order to drive as safely on cheaper tyres, you have to drive more slowly. It's called "driving to the conditions"; your tyres are part of "the conditions".
My MG stops (much) slower than my Elise. Driving down the same piece of road (any piece of road) I will be travelling slower in my MG than my Elise to compensate for this. Thus the MG is not more dangerous than the Elise.
ETA: The ironic thing is, the anti-ditchfinder argument is exactly the same as the "speed kills" one and if you try trotting that out on here everyone will jump down your throat. Driving safely is, and always has been, about good observation and driving at a speed and in a manner appropriate to the conditions. Anyone incapable of doing that probably shouldn't be driving at all.
My MG stops (much) slower than my Elise. Driving down the same piece of road (any piece of road) I will be travelling slower in my MG than my Elise to compensate for this. Thus the MG is not more dangerous than the Elise.
ETA: The ironic thing is, the anti-ditchfinder argument is exactly the same as the "speed kills" one and if you try trotting that out on here everyone will jump down your throat. Driving safely is, and always has been, about good observation and driving at a speed and in a manner appropriate to the conditions. Anyone incapable of doing that probably shouldn't be driving at all.
Edited by kambites on Saturday 3rd May 09:45
kambites said:
You seem to be missing the point. The point is that in order to drive as safely on cheaper tyres, you have to drive more slowly. It's called "driving to the conditions"; your tyres are part of "the conditions".
My MG stops (much) slower than my Elise. Driving down the same piece of road I will be travelling slower in my MG than my Elise to compensate for this. Thus the MG is not more dangerous than the Elise.
Your MG is 40 years old. Of course you have to treat it a bit more carefully than a far, far more modern sports car. Again, that's not really a sensible comparison. My MG stops (much) slower than my Elise. Driving down the same piece of road I will be travelling slower in my MG than my Elise to compensate for this. Thus the MG is not more dangerous than the Elise.
Edited by kambites on Saturday 3rd May 09:40
My point is that there's no reason to skimp £20 on some tyres for the sake of safety. Every sensible driver drives "to the conditions" be it rain, snow, hail, or fog so thick you can barely see past your bonnet. With this in mind, only an idiot would drive his car, shod with ultra high-performance tyres, as if it was a beautiful hot summer's day.
Therefore, two identical, regular, everyday cars both driving to the conditions in the rain, both driven by normal people driving their normal families along to a normal family outing. One shod with Eagle F1s, one shod with Ceat Spiders - I know which one is going to stop faster, have more confident levels of grip, and have less chance of aquaplaning (which can happen at any speed...)
You don't know what's around the corner, you don't know if someone or something is about to dart out in front of you. Whether you're doing 30 or 35mph, good tyres WILL help mitigate the risk of an accident.
I recall the thread about the idiot in the Evo doing 140 plus on a busy A19 and then the usual replies that ..ermm..140 was nothing really, cars got good brakes innit and I wonder how they would reconcile that with the argument that to be safe one should always have the best tyres . It's all about how you bloody drive- my old Escort Van on crossplies had less than huge grip ; my Seven on its pricey tyres has huge grip in the dry and sod all in the wet yet somehow I have avoided the ditch. My daily diesel driver has , in winter , some weird Turkish/ Japanese winter tyres which doubtless I shouldn't use - thing is they will out grip my very expensive summer tyres in bad conditions .
I've driven cars with budget and premium tyres, and in my experience they make a vast difference, particularly when stopping in the wet. I can understand the temptation: I recently got new tyres for my car and I could have bought a set of four Haidu tyres for £260, as opposed to nearly £1000 for a set of Pirellis, but for me, it's just not worth the risk.
I did a trackday in the wet at Goodwood with two borderline illegal Falkens on the rear and two Sunny tyres with 6mm tread on the front. Even on the warm up lap when I was entering corners at normal road speeds, the car was understeering so badly that I struggled to stay on the track. I've since replaced all the tyres with a new set of Falkens (hardly a premium brand) and the difference is astounding - it feels like a different car.
I did a trackday in the wet at Goodwood with two borderline illegal Falkens on the rear and two Sunny tyres with 6mm tread on the front. Even on the warm up lap when I was entering corners at normal road speeds, the car was understeering so badly that I struggled to stay on the track. I've since replaced all the tyres with a new set of Falkens (hardly a premium brand) and the difference is astounding - it feels like a different car.
Ridiculous logic. Crap tyres are crap tyres. End of. I cannot believe the crap some people spout when it comes to justifying buying low quality automotive components. You get what you pay for, that's it. Interestingly the guy in the tyre shop sells you the tyres, tells you there are good, but then warns you not to drive quickly. That tells me he knows they aren't good. It's not just grip that a tyre gives you. I'm seeing more and more cars sat at the roadside with punctures, my theory is that this is down to folk fitting budget tyres, and they are not constructed in the same way as quality ones, so they are not as robust and resistant to damage or failure. It's no secret that with truck tyre remoulders, they will only accept for remoulding, certain makes of tyre,( ie, the expensive premium ones) as the carcasses on the others are not well designed or constructed well enough to take another life cycle. Just because they are all black and round and look and smell the same, doesn't mean they are the same. We are all grown ups, however, and we buy and fit components we choose. Just because I do one thing, doesn't make it right in someone else's eyes and vice versa. Happy sliding around OP.
Howard- said:
Therefore, two identical, regular, everyday cars both driving to the conditions in the rain, both driven by normal people driving their normal families along to a normal family outing. One shod with Eagle F1s, one shod with Ceat Spiders - I know which one is going to stop faster, have more confident levels of grip, and have less chance of aquaplaning (which can happen at any speed...)
kambites said:
You seem to be missing the point. The point is that in order to drive as safely on cheaper tyres, you have to drive more slowly. It's called "driving to the conditions"; your tyres are part of "the conditions".
GravelBen said:
I don't think you can just generalise 'budget tyres' with any meaningful answer, some are pretty decent and some are terrible. Depends on brand/model/condition of tyre, road surface, what car they're on etc...
True. However, finding which are good and which aren't isn't easy. I fitted Falkens to my Merc (not the FK's) on the basis of internet reviews and on that car they were honestly scary in the rain. Tyre reviews are useless unless they are proper tests. I know if I buy a branded tyre they should be ok. Just fitted Yokohamas. kambites said:
Define "that bad".
One could argue that the most important aspect of a tyre's performance is the stopping distances it generates in poor conditions from motorway speeds, where the best and worst road tyres differ to around 25%. However, the difference between the best high-performance road tyre and the best budget tyre is ~10%; the worst "mid-range" tyres are worse than the best "budget" tyres.
Here's a big independent braking test: http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2012-Autobild...
I suspect there's a certain amount of experimental error, but it probably wont be far off.
Thanks for that link.One could argue that the most important aspect of a tyre's performance is the stopping distances it generates in poor conditions from motorway speeds, where the best and worst road tyres differ to around 25%. However, the difference between the best high-performance road tyre and the best budget tyre is ~10%; the worst "mid-range" tyres are worse than the best "budget" tyres.
Here's a big independent braking test: http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2012-Autobild...
I suspect there's a certain amount of experimental error, but it probably wont be far off.
It shows that there's a big difference between a budget tyre and a cheap tyre.
My car still has the original Michelins, which I'd have assumed were a premium tyre (they're certainly expensive enough).
Yet in that test they were apparently beaten by Fulda, Nexen and Barum and came out only just ahead of Kumho and Marangoni – most, if not all, of which can be had for considerably less money.
The take away point seems to be to stay away from the very cheapest tyres. Beyond that, paying more doesn't appear to guarantee better performance.
Howard- said:
Therefore, two identical, regular, everyday cars both driving to the conditions in the rain, both driven by normal people driving their normal families along to a normal family outing. One shod with Eagle F1s, one shod with Ceat Spiders - I know which one is going to stop faster, have more confident levels of grip, and have less chance of aquaplaning (which can happen at any speed...)
Those two drivers are not driving in the same conditions because they have different tyres; therefore the car on cheaper tyres will (if the driver is any good) be travelling slower so will stop in the same distance as the more expensive tyres. The thing you drive to isn't "how much it's raining" or even "how much water there is on the road"; it's "how much grip you have".I'm not arguing that cheaper tyres are worth buying - I run our cars on Eagle F1s and Yokohama AD07s which are two of the best and most expensive road tyres out there; I'm just saying that baring mechanical failure there is no such thing as a dangerous tyre - just a dangerous driver.
Gassing Station | Suspension, Brakes & Tyres | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff