How do I restore new car suspension feel to my 2005 espace ?

[rogerharris]

My espace feels kind of jarring on bumps, and lacks tightness in the steering, but its not got steering problems as such. Still straight and nothing jumping around or making noise. Its a special project this car has 76k on the clock and its had a high quality day camper conversion in the rear. So planning on keeping it for more years to come. Have already replaced all shocks and rear springs 10,000 miles ago. Front springs still the originals. New track rods. All new pirelli soft tyres.

In summary its had replaced already

FRONT

NEARSIDE
2017 Shock KYB excel - premium
2015 anti roll drop link
2015 spring premium
2015 track rod
2012 Nearside suspension arm ball joint

OFFSIDE
2017 Shock KYB excel - premium
2015 anti roll drop link
2015 spring premium
2017 track rod-inner tie rod

REAR

NEARSIDE
2017 Shock Budget
2017 Spring premium

OFFSIDE
2017 Shock Budget
2017 Spring premium

When the shocks were new it felt fine for about 5,000 miles then felt not so great again. I just hired a vauxhall mokka with 23,000 on it and this felt amazing next to the espace. Everything tight and responsive, absorbed the road well. Yet reviews of the Mokka slated it for rough and vague suspension, while the espace had good reviews for its ride when it was new. So I guess the problem with the espace is old rubber and any original suspension parts like front springs. Does anybody who rebuilds vehicles regularly with a concern to ride quality know where I should look next for problems with the suspension rubber getting old. i.e. Rather than replace all of it which is not practical.. Would this be the right order to replace first.

What order would you do them in ?

1. Front and rear Shock mounts
2. Front springs
3. Suspension arm ball joints and bushes
4. Front and rear sub frame bushes
5. Anti roll bar bushes

[paintman]

By fitting all new genuine or oem suspension parts.
Some budget stuff is crap.

You say the front springs are original & then say they were replaced?

[GreenV8S]

Presumably the camper conversion will have added a lot of weight - has the suspension been stiffened up to compensate?

[james_gt3rs]

Bushes have made a huge difference on cars I've owned, and you can't see any play when they are on the car.

[rogerharris]

paintman said:

By fitting all new genuine or oem suspension parts.
Some budget stuff is crap.

You say the front springs are original & then say they were replaced?

.

Rears replaced..front shocks replaced..

[rogerharris]

GreenV8S said:

Presumably the camper conversion will have added a lot of weight - has the suspension been stiffened up to compensate?

I removed 3 of the rear seats and spares wheel to compensate.. but not so heavy as more of a day camper limo. The rear springs were replaced with supposedly higher grade anyway.

[rogerharris]

james_gt3rs said:

Bushes have made a huge difference on cars I've owned, and you can't see any play when they are on the car.

What bushes made the most difference... suspension arm or subframe ?

[james_gt3rs]

rogerharris said:

What bushes made the most difference... suspension arm or subframe ?

I've only ever changed the suspension arm ones.

[stevieturbo]

You're trying to compare a brand new vehicle to......well, an ancient van.

Really, the two will never ever feel or drive the same.

By all means replace all bushes, shocks, springs etc etc, but the chassis is still old, and vehicle still old. And often aftermarket parts are never as good as OEM, and this is very much the case with bushes and movable joints, with OEM always lasting longer than spurious parts.

And after replacing, having a full alignment job done by a competent shop, fit good quality tyres etc.

[rogerharris]

stevieturbo said:

You're trying to compare a brand new vehicle to......well, an ancient van.

Really, the two will never ever feel or drive the same.

By all means replace all bushes, shocks, springs etc etc, but the chassis is still old, and vehicle still old. And often aftermarket parts are never as good as OEM, and this is very much the case with bushes and movable joints, with OEM always lasting longer than spurious parts.

And after replacing, having a full alignment job done by a competent shop, fit good quality tyres etc.

I made sure it was OEM or better for any critical parts. But track rods dont really matter, and you can use cheap control arms then fit high quality bushes to them. Sometimes a cheaper spring will give a softer ride at the expense of handling.

Also a vehicle has a new car feel even 10 or 20 years ago. I dont see whats in the new chassis that old ones dont have. The espace iv had quite a sophisticated chassis with entire rear trailing suspension and corners well.

When the vehicle is new everything feels tight and supple over the roads. I might try soaking all the bushes in rubber softener then tighten them up. Am coming to the conclusion that the new car feel represents the sum of ALL the suspension parts being new together. As the designers would be trying various designs with different combinations of new parts obviously then the final product is one that hits a sweet spot. So replacing half of them as I have done can never hit that sweet spot and just makes the 2005 car feel less like a 13 year old jalopy and more like a 3-5 year old motor.

[stevieturbo]

rogerharris said:

I dont see whats in the new chassis that old ones dont have.

Then that renders this entire thread pointless.

[Mignon]

rogerharris said:

The rear springs were replaced with supposedly higher grade anyway.

There's no such thing as "higher grade". Spring steel is spring steel. It all has the same Young's modulus. There's higher or lower stiffness for the spring rate depending on wire thickness and number of coils. Sounds like you have stiffer springs at the back with budget shocks. Not a happy combination. Spring and damper rates need matching or the ride will be awful. And anyway no matter what you do with dampers, stiffer springs will always give a harsher ride. I suggest OE springs and dampers and see what happens.