What is the current non track performance tyre of choice?
Discussion
- WARNING SUBJECTIVE OPINIONS MAY FOLLOW**
In the past, prior to doing my research on the PS4 tyre. I have always wanted a tyre that was great on the road and ok for a lap or two. I have always wanted a tyre that performs well in the dry but is just as good in the wet.
So circa 2018 when i bought the car, i did my research and made the swap to the Michelin PS4. At the time it was the tyre getting as much kudo's as possible. Winning i think the EVO tyre award only the previous summer. The PS4s was lauded as well but not available in that size (and still not i believe).
Come 2022. And it seems things have moved on. I have been happy with everything bar perhaps the longevity of the tyre but the car is nose heavy, hard on brakes and the last 4 years have been somewhat driven quite hard. So i accept that perhaps i've got less out of them based on driving amount/style than down to the tyre (if that makes sense). This years EVO award ranks the PS4 though somewhat average 5th place overall. With the Goodyear Eagle F1, Potenza sport (which i have a variant of, on my BMW and aren't overly enamoured with but they are RF's) and in first place the new Pirelli PZero PZ4.
Subjectively, i know that if i liked the PS4 now, no reason i wouldn't like it again. But technology moves on quickly in tyres and as such don't wish to be paying higher than average price for what seems to now be maybe only an average (still very good) tyre in comparison to the competition.
I know Michelin have recently release a new "DT4"? variant of the PS4 but can find no reviews on that specific tyre. It seems to always link back to the previous 2017/2018 tyre. Has anyone any experience of that vs the older variant?
Subjectively, i know this is a tricky question as everyone will have a different answer and a valid argument to go with it. But we are a great forum for that so wondering what my fellow PH'ers would recommend. What tyre do people feel is the best buy right now?
The car is only used once a week at weekends at the most. It is mainly spirited drives/roadtrips (which this year include NC500 and the Ring and a tour of Wales). As well as occassional track day laps (1 or 2 laps at most)
I need/want a tyre capable of cornering at speed, confident straight and corner braking in wet, grippy in the dry and possible to put on track of one or two spirited laps. The car is FWD, nose heavy and runs 350bhp with large brakes so safe controlled stopping is paramount. (Yes many factors play a part in this but Tyres is one of them).
Is the PS4 still my best choice? Or do i move on. It's an expensive mistake to make getting the wrong rubber. And yes, before anyone comments. I do actually often feel the difference fairly quickly given i know the car and its capabilities very well - i've spent a lot of time learning it. So perhaps its maybe placebo esque effect but whilst i'm no professional or race driver. I do often hear, feel and sense the difference in feedback tyres give. So i will be able to tell if i made the wrong choice quite quick (at least for my own liking - again i know thats subjective).
thanks all
Killboy said:
All I know is the PS4s were night and day better than the P Zeros I had on my GTC VXR. Honestly I could not believe the difference, especially in the wet. Cant help overall, but I'd personally now always go for PS4s.
One of the most popular 'mods' for the i30N is to throw away the factory (HN homologated) P-Zeros and replace them with PS4S. It is really is a night and day transformation by all accounts. Although I'm a cheapskate and will 'do' another set of fronts before I replace all four! 
The PS5 is now out but as yet it's too new for any reviews to emerge. I'm not sure but am assuming it replaces the PS4, while the PS4S remains the 'ultimate' road variant. (PS4S is available in 235/40/18).
I doubt you'll find another brand with comparable performance but better wear characteristics - the PS range has always been notably better on wear than most.
A semi-slick like an R888R will be better in the dry and ok in damp but terrible if there's any standing water.
Another consideration is whether you prefer a softer or stiffer sidewall. The PS4 has a much softer sidewall than a semi-slick with the PS4S sidewall stiffness somewhere in between. A stiffer sidewall offers more steering precision but is less compliant and usually means a considerably heavier tyre. When the R888Rs I'm currently running wear out I'm going back to PS, as the R888Rs' weight and stiffness creates the feel of driving on castors, as if I were running much lower profile on larger wheels.
I doubt you'll find another brand with comparable performance but better wear characteristics - the PS range has always been notably better on wear than most.
A semi-slick like an R888R will be better in the dry and ok in damp but terrible if there's any standing water.
Another consideration is whether you prefer a softer or stiffer sidewall. The PS4 has a much softer sidewall than a semi-slick with the PS4S sidewall stiffness somewhere in between. A stiffer sidewall offers more steering precision but is less compliant and usually means a considerably heavier tyre. When the R888Rs I'm currently running wear out I'm going back to PS, as the R888Rs' weight and stiffness creates the feel of driving on castors, as if I were running much lower profile on larger wheels.
If you can hold out for a little while, there's a raft of new releases at the moment - Yokohama V107s, Pilot Sport 5 (!) and the Continental Sport Contact 7.
IME, The PS4S has been by far and away the best for mileage - I managed 25k of hard driving on a set, though I did rotate them to manage the wear. - Due to a change in tyre size, I'm now running regular PS4 DT1s - DT1 is meant to be a reformulation to further improve tread life, so I'll see how they last.
(As a further aside, I'm using Vredestein Quatrac Pro at the moment as winter tyres)
ContiSport6's only lasted 6k by comparison, though I'd say offered better feel - The Conti7's are meant to improve on tread life, though that's pending some further reviews.
Based on the reviews of the Potenza Sport, they look good - They seem to nudge the compound / construction towards a more track focused tyre, scoring very well on feel and directness, though requiring a little warmth and not lasting the longest - That being said, TyreReviews managed to obliterate them very quickly with actual hot laps (Other tyres "went off", but didn't suffer tread damage), so there's a little oddity there.
The Yokohama V107 will also be interesting once we have some more information - Japanese tyres tend to have a bit of a stiffer sidewall with more feel, so if they've upped the performance of the compound it should be a good contender.
IME, The PS4S has been by far and away the best for mileage - I managed 25k of hard driving on a set, though I did rotate them to manage the wear. - Due to a change in tyre size, I'm now running regular PS4 DT1s - DT1 is meant to be a reformulation to further improve tread life, so I'll see how they last.
(As a further aside, I'm using Vredestein Quatrac Pro at the moment as winter tyres)
ContiSport6's only lasted 6k by comparison, though I'd say offered better feel - The Conti7's are meant to improve on tread life, though that's pending some further reviews.
Based on the reviews of the Potenza Sport, they look good - They seem to nudge the compound / construction towards a more track focused tyre, scoring very well on feel and directness, though requiring a little warmth and not lasting the longest - That being said, TyreReviews managed to obliterate them very quickly with actual hot laps (Other tyres "went off", but didn't suffer tread damage), so there's a little oddity there.
The Yokohama V107 will also be interesting once we have some more information - Japanese tyres tend to have a bit of a stiffer sidewall with more feel, so if they've upped the performance of the compound it should be a good contender.
As others have mentioned, if you're only using the car for weekend jollies, and don't mind a bit of a spend / poor tread life, you could grab Cup2s - They were very usable on road and felt absolutely fantastic in the dry; In the wet they were safe enough if you drive sensibly - A consideration if your trips and track days will mostly be in summer.
Haltamer said:
As others have mentioned, if you're only using the car for weekend jollies, and don't mind a bit of a spend / poor tread life, you could grab Cup2s - They were very usable on road and felt absolutely fantastic in the dry; In the wet they were safe enough if you drive sensibly - A consideration if your trips and track days will mostly be in summer.
The Cup2 wasn't a consideration for some reason. I had discounted it as more of a tyre for say a gt3 than a megane, and i have no idea as to why. Just felt a bit over the top for what i was using my car for maybe. I don't know. Wonder why i did that. Anyway. It should be a contender you are correct. Whilst my roadtrips will be summer based, they will be summers in Scotland, Wales and Germany - so rain is fairly likely to occur. That said, sensible is always name of the game when bad weather hits. Just i like to know that i have as much traction in the wet as possible.
Given the tyre size options on the PS5, it looks like a direct replacement for PS4 as they are not going up to the larger /lower profile fits initially, so would expect a PS5S to be available at a later date.
PS4S are quite astounding. I changed from BMW OEM fit Bridgestone Potenzas last year on my G30 540i, and the difference in noise ( better) grip (much better) and wet road handling was like night and day.
Just picked up an M6 and the dealer did fulfil promise to put a new set of tyres on the car - unfortunately they fitted Michelin PSS which is all they could get at the time, i'll wear these out and hopefully fit PS5S when available.
PS4S are quite astounding. I changed from BMW OEM fit Bridgestone Potenzas last year on my G30 540i, and the difference in noise ( better) grip (much better) and wet road handling was like night and day.
Just picked up an M6 and the dealer did fulfil promise to put a new set of tyres on the car - unfortunately they fitted Michelin PSS which is all they could get at the time, i'll wear these out and hopefully fit PS5S when available.
Paul_M3 said:
Sorry, I've got to ask as I'm curious; You go on a track day but only do 1 or 2 laps? Surely the Megane is perfect for thrashing around a track?
Oh no, you are right it would be. So yeah clarity, err, i used it as a an example, so say hadn't planned to go on track or i hadn't brought a spare set of wheels/tyres for that purpose with me in the car. These are majority road tyre i'm talking about, not a majority track tyre.
So as such, any tyre i choose, i wouldn't expect them to be that great after 1 or 2 hot(ish) laps, i'd expect them to start falling off. But if the mood takes me and i fancy a lap or two, at that point say unplanned. I'd want a tyre than could cope with that and a lot won't i know, but the PS4/S will as will the Cup - so there are those that are fast road tyres than can put a lap on. Does that make more sense? Maybe not explaining myself very well, but i know what i mean
The megane would be great at being thrased around a track, you are totally right. But at the same time, that isn't what it was built for. If I do decide to do that, I'll have a spare set for just that occasion.
stevekoz said:
Haltamer said:
As others have mentioned, if you're only using the car for weekend jollies, and don't mind a bit of a spend / poor tread life, you could grab Cup2s - They were very usable on road and felt absolutely fantastic in the dry; In the wet they were safe enough if you drive sensibly - A consideration if your trips and track days will mostly be in summer.
The Cup2 wasn't a consideration for some reason. I had discounted it as more of a tyre for say a gt3 than a megane, and i have no idea as to why. Just felt a bit over the top for what i was using my car for maybe. I don't know. Wonder why i did that. Anyway. It should be a contender you are correct. Whilst my roadtrips will be summer based, they will be summers in Scotland, Wales and Germany - so rain is fairly likely to occur. That said, sensible is always name of the game when bad weather hits. Just i like to know that i have as much traction in the wet as possible.
PS4s are much more of a decent all-rounder for the road, and are >90% of the track tyre the Cup2 is.
stevekoz said:
Paul_M3 said:
Sorry, I've got to ask as I'm curious; You go on a track day but only do 1 or 2 laps? Surely the Megane is perfect for thrashing around a track?
Oh no, you are right it would be. So yeah clarity, err, i used it as a an example, so say hadn't planned to go on track or i hadn't brought a spare set of wheels/tyres for that purpose with me in the car. These are majority road tyre i'm talking about, not a majority track tyre.
So as such, any tyre i choose, i wouldn't expect them to be that great after 1 or 2 hot(ish) laps, i'd expect them to start falling off. But if the mood takes me and i fancy a lap or two, at that point say unplanned. I'd want a tyre than could cope with that and a lot won't i know, but the PS4/S will as will the Cup - so there are those that are fast road tyres than can put a lap on. Does that make more sense? Maybe not explaining myself very well, but i know what i mean
The megane would be great at being thrased around a track, you are totally right. But at the same time, that isn't what it was built for. If I do decide to do that, I'll have a spare set for just that occasion.
I've had PS4S on a >1500kg 400Bhp car that I've taken on track. I would do 7 or 8 sessions with 5 - 8 laps per session. You could feel them starting to get a bit 'squirmy' at the end of the sessions sometimes, but they were still gripping well.
On the road, the PS4S is by far the best tyre I've ever used.
Are we talking about PS4s (little 's') or PS4S (big 'S')?
Either way, the Goodyear Asymmetric 5 is as good as a PS4, but for something similar than the PS4S you'd be looking at the Goodyear F1 Supersport.
I can't really go for a track-biased road tyre as I normally (pre-covid) do 25,000 all-conditions road miles on them too!
Either way, the Goodyear Asymmetric 5 is as good as a PS4, but for something similar than the PS4S you'd be looking at the Goodyear F1 Supersport.
I can't really go for a track-biased road tyre as I normally (pre-covid) do 25,000 all-conditions road miles on them too!
mmm-five said:
Are we talking about PS4s (little 's') or PS4S (big 'S')?
Either way, the Goodyear Asymmetric 5 is as good as a PS4, but for something similar than the PS4S you'd be looking at the Goodyear F1 Supersport.
I can't really go for a track-biased road tyre as I normally (pre-covid) do 25,000 all-conditions road miles on them too!
I am lucky that this car is only for 1-2000 miles per year really. It's just a weekend toy. My current tyre for it though, is the PS4. So not track orientated. Certainly more road orientated is what i'm looking for. Either way, the Goodyear Asymmetric 5 is as good as a PS4, but for something similar than the PS4S you'd be looking at the Goodyear F1 Supersport.
I can't really go for a track-biased road tyre as I normally (pre-covid) do 25,000 all-conditions road miles on them too!
When i put the PS4 tyres on the car. The 4S was not an option, but a few years later, now its made in the right size for my car. So an option would be to upgrade from the PS4 to the PS4S.
And i've also now seen as mentioned about the new PS5
I am leaning towards staying with Michelin and maybe more towards the PS4 S rather than the PS5. It is proven. There isn't alot out there about the PS5 right now and maybe next year that could be a consideration.
Paul_M3 said:
Yeah, that makes perfect sense.
I've had PS4S on a >1500kg 400Bhp car that I've taken on track. I would do 7 or 8 sessions with 5 - 8 laps per session. You could feel them starting to get a bit 'squirmy' at the end of the sessions sometimes, but they were still gripping well.
On the road, the PS4S is by far the best tyre I've ever used.
Glad that made sense, cheers for the comment. I've had PS4S on a >1500kg 400Bhp car that I've taken on track. I would do 7 or 8 sessions with 5 - 8 laps per session. You could feel them starting to get a bit 'squirmy' at the end of the sessions sometimes, but they were still gripping well.
On the road, the PS4S is by far the best tyre I've ever used.
Good to know. The PS4S wasn't available then but is now. So its certainly got to be a top contender. Nice to know it could handle that kind of use.
My car weighs 1375kg i think wet, thereabouts. Which puts it about 254 bhp per tonne so comparable ish i would have thought. What car was that by the way?
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