Nitrogen filled tyres improve ride quality?

[trickywoo]

Watching the latest Tyrrell’s Classic video in talking about nitrogen suspension systems Ian says nitrogen filled tyres improve ride quality.

Around 11 minutes.

Do we think this is actually the case?

[sherman]

Not to a degree that your going to notice.

[Mercury00]

Surely PSI is PSI regardless of which gas is used?

[Baldchap]

I read that nitrogen is used because it behaves more consistently than air as it warms up. It also can't pass through tyre rubber like some parts of air does, so pressure loss is reduced.

[trickywoo]

Mercury00 said:

Surely PSI is PSI regardless of which gas is used?

That’s my logic but Ian says nitrogen is more compressible than air. Air has 78% nitrogen anyway.

I could go with it in a high pressure suspension application but tyres at 30psi, I can’t see it. I’m interested to be proved wrong if it really is the case.

[trickywoo]

Baldchap said:

I read that nitrogen is used because it behaves more consistently than air as it warms up. It also can't pass through tyre rubber like some parts of air does, so pressure loss is reduced.

That’s right but Ian talks about it in compressibility terms and not maintaining a more consistent pressure range in use.

[GiantCardboardPlato]

Mercury00 said:

Surely PSI is PSI regardless of which gas is used?

Different gases expand to different degrees as temperature increases.

Water especially so… ie the partial pressure of the water vapour in the air in tyres will change substantially as the temperature changes. That leads to tyre pressures changes more substantially with temperature than they would if you used dry air or N2.

The main reason to use N2 is more linear pressure increases with temperature.

Mostly only really relevant for racing cars.

Ferrari at one point in F1 began using CO2 because (I think) of its higher molar constant volume heat capacity. It takes more energy to heat up the same number of molecules of CO2 as it does N2. They reduced thermal degradation (overheating) of the tyres by filling them with CO2 instead of N2. Rules say they have to use N2 now I think.

[griffter]

Ian gets things wrong from time to time. In an old video he once explained that stainless exhausts have a distinctive sound because the gas passes through the material itself.
I’m not sure if he wasn’t saying what he meant, or meant what he said and was wrong, but either way it was nonsense.
He’s a nice guy, with a lot of experience, but I do wonder sometimes, with all his anecdotes, whether he simply accepts things people say (or he understands) too readily and then repeats them as fact.

[Yazza54]

Strikes me as a load of bks, nitrogen is more stable Vs temperature, that's it

[Krikkit]

sherman said:

Not to a degree that your going to notice.

Exactly, it's a load of honk.

I like Tyrrell, but he occasionally drops in a snippet of bks like this and it drives me mad.

[SturdyHSV]

griffter said:

Ian gets things wrong from time to time. In an old video he once explained that stainless exhausts have a distinctive sound because the gas passes through the material itself.
I’m not sure if he wasn’t saying what he meant, or meant what he said and was wrong, but either way it was nonsense.
He’s a nice guy, with a lot of experience, but I do wonder sometimes, with all his anecdotes, whether he simply accepts things people say (or he understands) too readily and then repeats them as fact.

Ian knows his clientele very well, and this sort of mythical nonsense is exactly the kind of artisanal waffle that to them merits the hourly rate.

Don't get me wrong, as you say he's clearly a nice guy and does very good work, but there's an air of plausible sounding yet questionable fluff that helps make what he does sound more sophisticated than it is to his well heeled customers.

Remember him explaining to Harry M that at Rolls Royce they didn't use anything as vulgar as a torque wrench when assembling engines, they would just "feel the threads"

Imagine getting an engine build sheet back and all of the torque readings are "Felt right"

[donkmeister]

I always use a special blend of gases that is 78% nitrogen. It makes tyres work better than pure nitrogen.

I am willing to supply it for just £50 per tyre if anyone is interested.

[TGCOTF-dewey]

Surely it's just that N2 is supplied dry as opposed to air drawn locally to the compressor which being the UK is very high in moisture content.

[Yazza54]

TGCOTF-dewey said:

Surely it's just that N2 is supplied dry as opposed to air drawn locally to the compressor which being the UK is very high in moisture content.

Yep that's why it's more stable as temps grow.

It's got fk all to do with compression of different gases, the guy is talking out of his arse.

[Biggy Stardust]

donkmeister said:

I always use a special blend of gases that is 78% nitrogen. It makes tyres work better than pure nitrogen.

I am willing to supply it for just £50 per tyre if anyone is interested.

Can you confirm the percentages of other gasses or is it a secret recipe?

[Thats What She Said]

Biggy Stardust said:

donkmeister said:

I always use a special blend of gases that is 78% nitrogen. It makes tyres work better than pure nitrogen.

I am willing to supply it for just £50 per tyre if anyone is interested.

Can you confirm the percentages of other gasses or is it a secret recipe?

I'm willing to wager his 'special blend' consists of:

Nitrogen -- N2 -- 78.084%
Oxygen -- O2 -- 20.9476%
Argon -- Ar -- 0.934%
Carbon Dioxide -- CO2 -- 0.04%
Neon -- Ne -- 0.001818%
Methane -- CH4 -- 0.0002%
Helium -- He -- 0.000524%
Krypton -- Kr -- 0.000114%
Hydrogen -- H2 -- 0.00005%
Xenon -- Xe -- 0.0000087%
Ozone -- O3 -- 0.000007%
Nitrogen Dioxide -- NO2 -- 0.000002%
Iodine -- I2 -- 0.000001%
Carbon Monoxide -- CO -- trace
Ammonia -- NH3 -- trace

[TGCOTF-dewey]

Thats What She Said said:

I'm willing to wager his 'special blend' consists of:

Nitrogen -- N2 -- 78.084%
Oxygen -- O2 -- 20.9476%
Argon -- Ar -- 0.934%
Carbon Dioxide -- CO2 -- 0.04%
Neon -- Ne -- 0.001818%
Methane -- CH4 -- 0.0002%
Helium -- He -- 0.000524%
Krypton -- Kr -- 0.000114%
Hydrogen -- H2 -- 0.00005%
Xenon -- Xe -- 0.0000087%
Ozone -- O3 -- 0.000007%
Nitrogen Dioxide -- NO2 -- 0.000002%
Iodine -- I2 -- 0.000001%
Carbon Monoxide -- CO -- trace
Ammonia -- NH3 -- trace

Might want to revise the methane upwards to .0003. and add a bit of sulpher dioxide. Had a chana sag curry last night.

[donkmeister]

Thats What She Said said:

Biggy Stardust said:

donkmeister said:

I always use a special blend of gases that is 78% nitrogen. It makes tyres work better than pure nitrogen.

I am willing to supply it for just £50 per tyre if anyone is interested.

Can you confirm the percentages of other gasses or is it a secret recipe?

I'm willing to wager his 'special blend' consists of:

Nitrogen -- N2 -- 78.084%
Oxygen -- O2 -- 20.9476%
Argon -- Ar -- 0.934%
Carbon Dioxide -- CO2 -- 0.04%
Neon -- Ne -- 0.001818%
Methane -- CH4 -- 0.0002%
Helium -- He -- 0.000524%
Krypton -- Kr -- 0.000114%
Hydrogen -- H2 -- 0.00005%
Xenon -- Xe -- 0.0000087%
Ozone -- O3 -- 0.000007%
Nitrogen Dioxide -- NO2 -- 0.000002%
Iodine -- I2 -- 0.000001%
Carbon Monoxide -- CO -- trace
Ammonia -- NH3 -- trace

If I cut you in for 10% will you stop giving away my trade secrets?!?!

[andygo]

Yazza54 said:

.. the guy is talking out of his arse.

Which now you mention it is comedically big!

[SteveKTMer]

It's dry - empty the tyres of air first then refill with any dry, inert gas like Nitrogen. Lack of moisture and oxygen mean reduced corrosion and keeps pressure more stable as temp vary.