Euro 7 tyre and brake regs

[350Matt]

Peeps

something I found out today that may be of interest

As you may have heard Euro 7 emission regs are incoming , now there's been a lot said about the engine exhaust side
however something you may not have heard is all the major tyre manufacturers have committed to produce 'low emssion ' tyres


basically there's going to be a tyre wear test with an allowable loss of material, where the tyre is run against an rolller to simulate 1000Km and then weighed afterwards , the limits have yet to be set but 3% is being mentioned

the screwy thing is there's no account taken of the weight of the car when the tyre is fitted

so the tyre has to pass the same wear rate if its fitted to a 1000kg car or a 2000kg car


you can see where this is going
but basically decent grip tyres are probably going to be a thing of the past

same thing is going to happen to brake pads, they're going to be rock hard with very low brake dust formulas , be prepared to re-encounter brake fade

[Grumps.]

350Matt said:

Peeps

something I found out today that may be of interest

As you may have heard Euro 7 emission regs are incoming , now there's been a lot said about the engine exhaust side
however something you may not have heard is all the major tyre manufacturers have committed to produce 'low emssion ' tyres


basically there's going to be a tyre wear test with an allowable loss of material, where the tyre is run against an rolller to simulate 1000Km and then weighed afterwards , the limits have yet to be set but 3% is being mentioned

the screwy thing is there's no account taken of the weight of the car when the tyre is fitted

so the tyre has to pass the same wear rate if its fitted to a 1000kg car or a 2000kg car


you can see where this is going
but basically decent grip tyres are probably going to be a thing of the past

same thing is going to happen to brake pads, they're going to be rock hard with very low brake dust formulas , be prepared to re-encounter brake fade

Any links for info on any of this?

Would be interesting to read up on it.

[350Matt]

Some mention of it here

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail...

Regulate emissions from brakes and tyres:

the Euro 7 standards rules will be the first worldwide emission standards to move beyond regulating exhaust pipe emissions and set additional limits for particulate emissions from brakes and rules on microplastic emissions from tyres. These rules will apply to all vehicles, including electric ones.

https://www.tiretechnologyinternational.com/news/r...

and here
https://tmdfriction.com/the-new-euro-7-standard/

[Pica-Pica]

350Matt said:

Some mention of it here

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail...

Regulate emissions from brakes and tyres:

the Euro 7 standards rules will be the first worldwide emission standards to move beyond regulating exhaust pipe emissions and set additional limits for particulate emissions from brakes and rules on microplastic emissions from tyres. These rules will apply to all vehicles, including electric ones.

https://www.tiretechnologyinternational.com/news/r...

and here
https://tmdfriction.com/the-new-euro-7-standard/

Old news. This Euro 7 proposal has been around for a while. Do keep up PHers.

Here:

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

Edited by Pica-Pica on Tuesday 27th June 23:53

[bigothunter]

350Matt said:

Some mention of it here
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail...

Regulate emissions from brakes and tyres:

the Euro 7 standards rules will be the first worldwide emission standards to move beyond regulating exhaust pipe emissions and set additional limits for particulate emissions from brakes and rules on microplastic emissions from tyres. These rules will apply to all vehicles, including electric ones.

Regulations have been tightening for over 50 years. It would be unrealistic to expect this trend not to continue. Emissions and safety standards will get tighter.

Regenerative retardation on EVs automatically reduces brake dust. Friction brakes become largely redundant. Problem solved especially as new pure ICE is phased out in 2030.

EVs demand low losses to achieve acceptable range. Tyre loss is a significant factor alongside aero drag. Low loss tyres will tend to be more durable and shed less particulates.

Also emphasis is shifting away from performance to more 'responsible' cars. Lower speeds are crucial to this vision. So are speed limiters and full autonomy.

The whole scenario is consistent and compatible. Frankly I expect nothing else but a future of motoring conformity.

[bigothunter]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

This isn't a nudge towards EVs, it's a full blown charge. And the authorities are not hiding their enthusiasm.

[donkmeister]

Having driven an MX5 on "long life" tyres (fondly referred to by Mrs D as her "death sliders"), the only discernible benefits were:
1) They lasted ages
2) They were great for drifting.

America has had 100,000 mile tyres for quite some time; might explain some of the dashcam videos.

[bigothunter]

350Matt said:

basically there's going to be a tyre wear test with an allowable loss of material, where the tyre is run against an rolller to simulate 1000Km and then weighed afterwards , the limits have yet to be set but 3% is being mentioned

you can see where this is going
but basically decent grip tyres are probably going to be a thing of the past

donkmeister said:

Having driven an MX5 on "long life" tyres (fondly referred to by Mrs D as her "death sliders"), the only discernible benefits were:
1) They lasted ages
2) They were great for drifting.

America has had 100,000 mile tyres for quite some time; might explain some of the dashcam videos.

Max of 3% wear in 1000km means tyres must last at least 20,712 miles. Doesn't seem ridiculous although powerful FWD cars would struggle.

But nothing like America's 100,000 mile tyres.

[Rough101]

bigothunter said:

Max of 3% wear in 1000km means tyres must last at least 20,712 miles. Doesn't seem ridiculous although powerful FWD cars would struggle.

But nothing like America's 100,000 mile tyres.

Every yard of American freeways is littered with shed tyre tread and carcass, this is not an exaggeration, it’s literally continuous on Interstates.

I had an XC60 years ago with Pirelli Scorpion Verde’s still with 4mm after 60,000 miles, but with chunks missing in the tread blocks through damage, whilst ‘legal’ I swapped them out. They had become useless in damp conditions.

[Jader1973]

bigothunter said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

This isn't a nudge towards EVs, it's a full blown charge. And the authorities are not hiding their enthusiasm.

It has nothing to do with the push for EVs - that is already legislated, i.e. being forced.

Euro 7 is the start of legislating EV emissions - brakes and tyres are the only things they “use”. When it comes along Euro 8 will introduce something else, and so on.

[Grumps.]

From my skim reading, it also includes EV as well with battery life, and tyre wear.

[350Matt]

the interesting thing about it, is what jumps out at you is the way forward for low emissions, is lighter vehicles

cars that weigh sub tonne will scrub tyres far less and need smaller brakes than something that weighs 2 tonnes

[Rich Boy Spanner]

I dislike hard eco tyres. My (company) Leaf came with them and it can be alarming in the wet, any bump on a corner makes it twitch. Didn't 5th Gear do a tyre test that showed eco tyres to have a considerable longer stopping distance?

[bigothunter]

350Matt said:

the interesting thing about it, is what jumps out at you is the way forward for low emissions, is lighter vehicles

cars that weigh sub tonne will scrub tyres far less and need smaller brakes than something that weighs 2 tonnes

Basic engineering principle as used to good effect by Colin Chapman, Gordon Murray et al.

But even ICEVs keep getting bigger and heavier. The purity and efficiency of simple design, basic function, optimised mass and low cost is long gone. EVs are even worse but have the get-round of regenerative retardation (I'm loathe to call it braking).

[J4CKO]

I think that the shove towards EV that is in inherent in this is obvious but like in the past where the EU limited Vaccum cleaners to a much lower wattage int he name of energy consumption, but it meant you had to use it twice as long, and there does seem to be potential consequences in reducing the friction available for brakes and tyres.

That said, been able to buy Triangle, Linglong and whatever Ditchfinders for years, the public love them as they are cheap and get them through another MOT, but these will be similar grip but at premium brand prices I expect.

Most folk dont use the ultimate cornering and braking grip very often or ever, unless they are in an emergency, not sure Bakelite tyres and wood brake pads would help in those scenarios.

Suppose it will be EV's doing mainly regen braking and tip toeing round on super hard tyres relying on the ESP and whatever other systems.

Out of interest, could and EV theoretically do without friction brakes, I know they wont but interested to know what the limit of retardation is with an electric motor, I get the impression on the spicier Teslas etc, you could brake and the car could turn the motors in reverse doing a nice four wheel burnout as you come to a halt, o is it more a limit of the power electronics for putting the energy back in the batteries ?

[bigothunter]

Rough101 said:

Every yard of American freeways is littered with shed tyre tread and carcass, this is not an exaggeration, it’s literally continuous on Interstates.

I had an XC60 years ago with Pirelli Scorpion Verde’s still with 4mm after 60,000 miles, but with chunks missing in the tread blocks through damage, whilst ‘legal’ I swapped them out. They had become useless in damp conditions.

Only some North American states bother with periodic Vehicle Safety Inspections. Older cars drive around with gaping rust holes where sills used to exist. Hardly surprising that tyre condition is treated in the same casual manner.

Although not as bad, British motorways are littered with tyre carcasses mostly from trucks. Is the source of freeway debris principally trucks?

But still nothing like Mexico. Even local buses had tyres worn down to their ply construction just waiting to wear through and blow out. And they belched out diesel fumes. No care for particulate pollution.

[bigothunter]

J4CKO said:

Out of interest, could and EV theoretically do without friction brakes, I know they wont but interested to know what the limit of retardation is with an electric motor, I get the impression on the spicier Teslas etc, you could brake and the car could turn the motors in reverse doing a nice four wheel burnout as you come to a halt, o is it more a limit of the power electronics for putting the energy back in the batteries ?

For emergency electric retardation only, any excess energy flow (ie power) which the batteries were unable to handle could be dissipated through a bank of underfloor resistors. Gives a zero-particulate solution.

[andy43]

Having spent the last eight years kicking the crap out of various EVs at every set of traffic lights I can find I’d suggest limiting acceleration via software would be far more beneficial to tyre particulates emissions than harder compounds. But don’t tell the EU that.

[bigothunter]

andy43 said:

Having spent the last eight years kicking the crap out of various EVs at every set of traffic lights I can find I’d suggest limiting acceleration via software would be far more beneficial to tyre particulates emissions than harder compounds. But don’t tell the EU that.

I reckon EU bureaucrats are on your case already

[andy43]

bigothunter said:

andy43 said:

Having spent the last eight years kicking the crap out of various EVs at every set of traffic lights I can find I’d suggest limiting acceleration via software would be far more beneficial to tyre particulates emissions than harder compounds. But don’t tell the EU that.

I reckon EU bureaucrats are on your case already

Shhhhhhh