Camber on uneven/sloped surfaces

[sliks]

Hi guys hoping for some insight into what type of Camber to expect on uneven and sloped surfaces on the average car, soft suspension daily runners

Ive been checking mine recently and it's sometimes around the 3degree mark (alignment spec is 30'+-30'). Admittedly I can't actually find anywhere that's truly level (far end of supermarket carparks is about the best I can do) so want to know if 3degree Camber on one side is about right??

Does unlevel ground have such an effect?

[GreenV8S]

When you measure it, the contact patches of all four wheels must be on flat level ground. You can set that up easily enough a spirit level and some sort of packing to put under the low tyres. There's no chance of just eyeballing it.

If iti isn't flat and level, you're wasting your time.

You also need to ensure the suspension isn't preloaded due to being jacked up etc. You can ensure that by rolling the car into position.

[sliks]

Thanks Green, that's how I'll eventually have to check.

What about the effect gradients have on Camber? I mean generally are tyres rolling around at 3-4 degrees Camber on roads?

[E-bmw]

sliks said:

What about the effect gradients have on Camber? I mean generally are tyres rolling around at 3-4 degrees Camber on roads?

If you are asking if the road not being level will affect the "apparent" camber then obviously it will as the car won't be level.

If you are asking something else then you need to explain yourself better as above is the correct answer to the question you seem to be asking.

[sliks]

E-bmw said:

If you are asking if the road not being level will affect the "apparent" camber then obviously it will as the car won't be level.

If you are asking something else then you need to explain yourself better as above is the correct answer to the question you seem to be asking.

I guess I'm asking if it's normal for cars to be parked up on level-ish/slightly sloped surfaces at 3degrees Camber...and asking for opinions on what degrees Camber cars are driving around at on normal roads

Eg: "it's perfectly normal for one side to be sat at 3-4 degrees in a car park" or as the case maybe "on a level-ish surface anything above 2degrees Camber is problematic", "with our sloped roads for water runoff don't be surprised to see xxdegrees passenger side as you drive along in a straight line"etc

Question is not so much about doing an alignment, rather more about what degrees gradients should effect Camber. I hope that makes sense

[GreenV8S]

Your question suggests you don't undserstand what camber is.

Camber refers to the angle between the axis of the wheel and the plane the vehicle sits on. Ignoring changes in suspension deflection, the camber does not change when you park on a slope.

However, if you're measuring the angle from vertical instead of the angle from the ground, this will give you a misleading answer when the vehicle is on a slope. For example, if you park sideways on a 45 degree slope, obviously that does not mean the camber is 45 degrees,

[sliks]

GreenV8S said:

Your question suggests you don't undserstand what camber is.

Camber refers to the angle between the axis of the wheel and the plane the vehicle sits on. Ignoring changes in suspension deflection, the camber does not change when you park on a slope.

However, if you're measuring the angle from vertical instead of the angle from the ground, this will give you a misleading answer when the vehicle is on a slope. For example, if you park sideways on a 45 degree slope, obviously that does not mean the camber is 45 degrees,

Thanks,that's interesting, yes it's true I'm in need of some schooling/prospective to put it all together to build an understanding sufficient to make future repairs.

Never paid much attention to it before but I think my understanding of Camber was that it's set on the car to allow maximum tyre contact during normal straight ahead driving..and that it could be pulled away but would settle to what was set hence incorrect Camber contacts the road less and wears tyres faster.

[GreenV8S]

sliks said:

it's set on the car to allow maximum tyre contact during normal straight ahead driving

It's usually used to achieve a compromise between the wheel being square to the road when it's travelling in a straight line, and when it's cornering.

Competition cars used on a race track often run more negative camber angles but 3 degrees of negative camber is a huge amout for a road car. But from your earlier comments I'm not confident you're measuring it properly so I won't take the values you're giving at face value.

[sliks]

[quote]
Competition cars used on a race track often run more negative camber angles but 3 degrees of negative camber is a huge amout for a road car.
[/quote]
Thanks, this is exactly the type of information I am looking for. What I measured on mine, although accurate, is not critical to the question as generally knowing what Camber variations cars are going through on roads and car parks and opinions on that is the info I was after (only have 1 car so don't want to start measuring friends/family/work van/random cars etc)


It's possible other diyers/alignment techs have randomly measured cars Camber.

Edited by sliks on Friday 1st September 21:33

[GreenV8S]

sliks said:

What I measured on mine, although accurate

If the slope of the ground affects your camber reading then you're doing it wrong.

If you're measuring it relative to vertical eg using a plumb line, spirit level etc then your reading will only be accurate if the ground is completely flat and level. In your OP you mention road camber as a factor. That suggests you're taking readings on ground that is NOT flat and level. In that case the measurements will be inaccurate.

[sliks]

GreenV8S said:

If the slope of the ground affects your camber reading then you're doing it wrong.

If you're measuring it relative to vertical eg using a plumb line, spirit level etc then your reading will only be accurate if the ground is completely flat and level. In your OP you mention road camber as a factor. That suggests you're taking readings on ground that is NOT flat and level. In that case the measurements will be inaccurate.

Thanks Green for the effort, to tell you the truth it's not just OP but even in the title I mentioned uneven/sloped surfaces to differentiate even flat ground hoping nobody would mention flat even ground or any of the alignment setting criteria.

[sliks]

There is a lot to know about dynamic Camber as we drive around on surfaces which are rarely flat and even. For a starter things like what should be or what shouldn't be possible.

I'm sensing there is a lot of suspension related diagnostic potential in knowing about Camber on uneven surfaces.

The aftermarket has a lot to answer for but I suspect this is one of those areas it's products can be more closely scrutinised away from it's new and it's got no play.

Edited by sliks on Wednesday 20th September 23:59