Cabin noise and tyre choice - how to
Discussion
Hi all
I have a Suzuki Vitara 2022 1.4 Boosterjet fitted with Continental ContiEcocontact 215/55 R17 summer tyres. I was wondering if changing tyres would really reduce road noise inside the cabin? If so does anyone have any specific tyres to recommend from their own experience? I know tyres have a db rating but this refers to external noise not interior cabin noise.
Also: how do I know if the tyre is compatible with my car, with respect to the parameters described in xxx/XX Rxx? I asked reps and he did say stay with R16-17-18 but what about other two parameters XXX/XX (e.g here this tyre is 215/55)?
Cheers!
PS also willing to look into wheel change if necessary. My winter tyres are R16
I have a Suzuki Vitara 2022 1.4 Boosterjet fitted with Continental ContiEcocontact 215/55 R17 summer tyres. I was wondering if changing tyres would really reduce road noise inside the cabin? If so does anyone have any specific tyres to recommend from their own experience? I know tyres have a db rating but this refers to external noise not interior cabin noise.
Also: how do I know if the tyre is compatible with my car, with respect to the parameters described in xxx/XX Rxx? I asked reps and he did say stay with R16-17-18 but what about other two parameters XXX/XX (e.g here this tyre is 215/55)?
Cheers!
PS also willing to look into wheel change if necessary. My winter tyres are R16
Edited by Carmonkey7 on Sunday 11th August 10:10
Unless you are changing your wheels then you are stuck with the 17 inch diameter.
The 215 is the tyre width in mm and the 55 is the tyre sidewall height as a % of width.
The noise measurement is external, but that is still the same noise which enters the car - a noisy tyre is noisy and a quieter tyre is quieter.
If you find tyre noise inside the car to be excessive then maybe consider some additional sound deadening which is fitted underneath the carpets around the wheel arch areas.
The 215 is the tyre width in mm and the 55 is the tyre sidewall height as a % of width.
The noise measurement is external, but that is still the same noise which enters the car - a noisy tyre is noisy and a quieter tyre is quieter.
If you find tyre noise inside the car to be excessive then maybe consider some additional sound deadening which is fitted underneath the carpets around the wheel arch areas.
Scrump said:
Unless you are changing your wheels then you are stuck with the 17 inch diameter.
The 215 is the tyre width in mm and the 55 is the tyre sidewall height as a % of width.
The noise measurement is external, but that is still the same noise which enters the car - a noisy tyre is noisy and a quieter tyre is quieter.
If you find tyre noise inside the car to be excessive then maybe consider some additional sound deadening which is fitted underneath the carpets around the wheel arch areas.
I have read that sound deadening can trap moisture and lead to rust eventually? And also, would doing floor and wheel arches without doing doors actually yield any benefits?The 215 is the tyre width in mm and the 55 is the tyre sidewall height as a % of width.
The noise measurement is external, but that is still the same noise which enters the car - a noisy tyre is noisy and a quieter tyre is quieter.
If you find tyre noise inside the car to be excessive then maybe consider some additional sound deadening which is fitted underneath the carpets around the wheel arch areas.
Carmonkey7 said:
I have read that sound deadening can trap moisture and lead to rust eventually? And also, would doing floor and wheel arches without doing doors actually yield any benefits?
Your car will already have some sound deadening, do you currently worry about trapped moisture?Tyre noise will enter the car primarily in the area of the wheel arches. I doubt much tyre noise comes through the doors, but am not an automotive acoustic expert so may be wrong.
I effectively increased the previously non existant soundproofing on two family owned cars that were previously horribly noisy, the best result was on a family Aygo, almost limo like after.
As said most noise comes from the wheelarch areas and is worse in cars without a rear bulkhead, ie hatches estates etc.
If you get a few duvets and lay them over various parts of the interior you can find where the noise is coming from.
On luxury cars when you remove interior plastic panels such as over wheelarches there will be some other insulator layer, on cheaper mass produced there is often nothing at all.
You can buy self adhesive insulation from the usual auction site, it comes in various thicknesses and you cut it to suit, i found 8 and 10mm to be the most effective, but thinner is obviously easier to work with.
As well as wheelarches cover the otherwise bare metal under the rear seat, entire boot area.
Thinner comes in handy for applying to the door skin after removing the door cards.
Leave the floot till last, those duvets spread over the floor will give you an inkling if the considerable job of removing all seats etc to access the floor would be worth it.
Never needed to add insulation to the front bulkhead, unclipping the kick treads and adding to thefront wheelarch insulation in that area was enough.
Unless the car leaks like a sieve those panels won't be the cause of corrosion.
Present Subaru Forester which i haven't insulated (doesn't get used for long journeys and too old now to bother, me and the car) is poorly soundproofed, the previous Outback was silent in comparison.
Tyre wise.
The two sets of 215/55 x 17" summer tyres on the Foz have been noisy, the Fuldas it came on gave a very harsh ride to boot, glad to see the back of them, now the summer Falkens are down to 4mm and under they're equally harsh riding...no complaints with either set for grip, the Fuldas wore exceptionally well too, unlike the Falkens.
The winter set are 215/60 x 16", overall quieter with a markedly better ride, the tread pattern sets up a vibration/drone that sounds exactly like a failing wheel bearing but still much quieter overall.
Have thought about replacing the winter set with all seasons and staying permamently on the 16" set, handling isn't a sharp but whether thats the higher aspect ratio or the softer tread compoundof winter rubber is debatable.
If you're happy with the ride and handling i'd suggest using those duvets to see if the soundproofing can be improved first, cost wise £100 will buy more than enough insulation to do the whole interior including the doorskins, take you a day to complete the job, suggest a warm day when interior plastic panels and fitting clips are more pliable.
As said most noise comes from the wheelarch areas and is worse in cars without a rear bulkhead, ie hatches estates etc.
If you get a few duvets and lay them over various parts of the interior you can find where the noise is coming from.
On luxury cars when you remove interior plastic panels such as over wheelarches there will be some other insulator layer, on cheaper mass produced there is often nothing at all.
You can buy self adhesive insulation from the usual auction site, it comes in various thicknesses and you cut it to suit, i found 8 and 10mm to be the most effective, but thinner is obviously easier to work with.
As well as wheelarches cover the otherwise bare metal under the rear seat, entire boot area.
Thinner comes in handy for applying to the door skin after removing the door cards.
Leave the floot till last, those duvets spread over the floor will give you an inkling if the considerable job of removing all seats etc to access the floor would be worth it.
Never needed to add insulation to the front bulkhead, unclipping the kick treads and adding to thefront wheelarch insulation in that area was enough.
Unless the car leaks like a sieve those panels won't be the cause of corrosion.
Present Subaru Forester which i haven't insulated (doesn't get used for long journeys and too old now to bother, me and the car) is poorly soundproofed, the previous Outback was silent in comparison.
Tyre wise.
The two sets of 215/55 x 17" summer tyres on the Foz have been noisy, the Fuldas it came on gave a very harsh ride to boot, glad to see the back of them, now the summer Falkens are down to 4mm and under they're equally harsh riding...no complaints with either set for grip, the Fuldas wore exceptionally well too, unlike the Falkens.
The winter set are 215/60 x 16", overall quieter with a markedly better ride, the tread pattern sets up a vibration/drone that sounds exactly like a failing wheel bearing but still much quieter overall.
Have thought about replacing the winter set with all seasons and staying permamently on the 16" set, handling isn't a sharp but whether thats the higher aspect ratio or the softer tread compoundof winter rubber is debatable.
If you're happy with the ride and handling i'd suggest using those duvets to see if the soundproofing can be improved first, cost wise £100 will buy more than enough insulation to do the whole interior including the doorskins, take you a day to complete the job, suggest a warm day when interior plastic panels and fitting clips are more pliable.
Easiest option is to buy tyres with the lowest dBa rating you can find for your size.
It will improve it a bit, but not much.
Like others said, if you want a substantial improvement, you have to install soundeading. I’ve seen a few tutorials on youtube where they stripped out the interior and installed dynamat. At least one mentioned that the car became heavier and mpg went down afterwards however.
Best bet is to buy a refined car in the first instance. Usually a ‘prestige’ model.
It will improve it a bit, but not much.
Like others said, if you want a substantial improvement, you have to install soundeading. I’ve seen a few tutorials on youtube where they stripped out the interior and installed dynamat. At least one mentioned that the car became heavier and mpg went down afterwards however.
Best bet is to buy a refined car in the first instance. Usually a ‘prestige’ model.
Edited by wyson on Monday 12th August 09:30
Went down both tyre and sound deadening/sound proofing in my 2020 Fiesta van. Tyre choice after the OEM Michelin's was the Yokohama Advan Fleva. The change made a very small amount of change but there was some. The van is now on Rainsports and I "see" a little more noise but I like the wet grip so a trad off I can live with.
I used sound deadening and topped over with sound proofing inside, and fitted inside and outside on the wheel arches. So long as I max out at 70 mph the wee van is quierter than my old 2.7 Jag S-Type. I t was a lot of work but I do a lot of miles on various surfaces so for me it was worth it.
I used sound deadening and topped over with sound proofing inside, and fitted inside and outside on the wheel arches. So long as I max out at 70 mph the wee van is quierter than my old 2.7 Jag S-Type. I t was a lot of work but I do a lot of miles on various surfaces so for me it was worth it.
To add to the sound deadening bits, in Hatchbacks and Estates especially you can make some big improvements just by adding some extra under the boot floor and rear seats - Rear arches is even better.
The way I worked was to look for any flat surfaces in the sheet metal - Knock on them, see how "Drum like" they are, then add Dynamat (Silver) - Generally 50% coverage is the most effective balance in terms of weight vs sound reduction.
Curved sheet metal / "stiff" areas aren't reverberating, so there's no need to add the heavier sheets.
Follow up with foam sound absorber matting; This needs greater coverage but doesn't weigh as much.
All of this can go inside the car, so no worries about moisture.
Door cards (I only did the plastic insides on my civic, still with benefit!) can be worth doing, as well as improving the door seals - Aliexpress usually has a few options (Sometimes pre-cut specifically for the car) - More sealing will keep out wind, road and tyre noise, so it's a very easy win if you only have single seals.
Finally, onto tyre choice...
As you so rightly say, the EU Labels are for exterior noise and not interior - compounded by the fact some cars will have curious resonances etc. that make certain tyres worse.
I've had good luck with All season tyres, given the touring bias they tend to be much quieter than my usual UHP Choices - As you have a secondary winter set, Probably not worth bothering!
TyreReviews do have some tests with interior noise measurements, but they're not always the easiest to find.
It can be worth checking your tyre sizes on Camskill against some of the OEM part numbers - 215/55/17 has some OE-optimised VAG tyres for the VW EVs, likely with some extra focus on reduced noise - In some of the sizes I use you can find tyres with acoustic foam which cuts down on the tyre roar quite a bit.
This (very American) graphic gives an interesting overview -
If you look at any tyre, you can follow it around and see how the manufacturers vary tread block size / seperation to tune the tyre for noise - e.g. on the PS4 / 5, the shoulder blocks can be seen to be narrow / narrow / wide / wide / narrow all around the tyre.
On a final point, noise adds up - If there are under bonnet covers / NVH Pads, make sure they are in place and in good condition, check seals around the bonnet and inspect door closure gaps all round, make sure the car is clean and tidy (no pennies ratting under the seat rails) - Consider lining the glovebox, or putting your things inside a soft case if it is hard plastic.
The way I worked was to look for any flat surfaces in the sheet metal - Knock on them, see how "Drum like" they are, then add Dynamat (Silver) - Generally 50% coverage is the most effective balance in terms of weight vs sound reduction.
Curved sheet metal / "stiff" areas aren't reverberating, so there's no need to add the heavier sheets.
Follow up with foam sound absorber matting; This needs greater coverage but doesn't weigh as much.
All of this can go inside the car, so no worries about moisture.
Door cards (I only did the plastic insides on my civic, still with benefit!) can be worth doing, as well as improving the door seals - Aliexpress usually has a few options (Sometimes pre-cut specifically for the car) - More sealing will keep out wind, road and tyre noise, so it's a very easy win if you only have single seals.
Finally, onto tyre choice...
As you so rightly say, the EU Labels are for exterior noise and not interior - compounded by the fact some cars will have curious resonances etc. that make certain tyres worse.
I've had good luck with All season tyres, given the touring bias they tend to be much quieter than my usual UHP Choices - As you have a secondary winter set, Probably not worth bothering!
TyreReviews do have some tests with interior noise measurements, but they're not always the easiest to find.
It can be worth checking your tyre sizes on Camskill against some of the OEM part numbers - 215/55/17 has some OE-optimised VAG tyres for the VW EVs, likely with some extra focus on reduced noise - In some of the sizes I use you can find tyres with acoustic foam which cuts down on the tyre roar quite a bit.
This (very American) graphic gives an interesting overview -
If you look at any tyre, you can follow it around and see how the manufacturers vary tread block size / seperation to tune the tyre for noise - e.g. on the PS4 / 5, the shoulder blocks can be seen to be narrow / narrow / wide / wide / narrow all around the tyre.
On a final point, noise adds up - If there are under bonnet covers / NVH Pads, make sure they are in place and in good condition, check seals around the bonnet and inspect door closure gaps all round, make sure the car is clean and tidy (no pennies ratting under the seat rails) - Consider lining the glovebox, or putting your things inside a soft case if it is hard plastic.
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