Grief with a Clio.
Discussion
PH gurus needed to solve a problem with an 03 Clio.
It's my son's car and there's an annoying problem with it that has defied all attempts at diagnosis. Not sure which model Clio but it has alloys as standard fitment and is one of the first cars with the electric power steering.
At 40mph plus any sharp change of direction produces what's best described as oversteer or a feeling that the car has rear wheel steer. Only happens turning left. Turning right is fine. The problem can be induced by a sharp lane change - Not enough to risk losing control but sufficient to cause the buttock muscles to clench tightly!
The car looks mint and there are no signs of accident damage anywhere. We've had a 4 wheel alignment check and all is within tolerance. Tyres are good but a mixed bag, however I've checked that all the assymetrical arrows are correct.
My first thoughts were radius arm bushes but the car has a beam axle and there is no sign of perishing or movement in the mountings. Shocks? We removed them to check and swapped side to side to see if the problem chamges in any way. Likewise the tyres, swapped front to back for a tryout but no difference!
Even on a fast left hander ther's no sign of 'losing it.' Only that the car suddenly changes attitude.
So what do you think? Weak spring? Anti roll bar problem or should we be looking at the other end of the car?
Never very struck on this electric steeing mind - Generally feels quite 'dead' and at speed it seems to get quite heavy. However yer Renault people say this is normal for the car.
It's my son's car and there's an annoying problem with it that has defied all attempts at diagnosis. Not sure which model Clio but it has alloys as standard fitment and is one of the first cars with the electric power steering.
At 40mph plus any sharp change of direction produces what's best described as oversteer or a feeling that the car has rear wheel steer. Only happens turning left. Turning right is fine. The problem can be induced by a sharp lane change - Not enough to risk losing control but sufficient to cause the buttock muscles to clench tightly!
The car looks mint and there are no signs of accident damage anywhere. We've had a 4 wheel alignment check and all is within tolerance. Tyres are good but a mixed bag, however I've checked that all the assymetrical arrows are correct.
My first thoughts were radius arm bushes but the car has a beam axle and there is no sign of perishing or movement in the mountings. Shocks? We removed them to check and swapped side to side to see if the problem chamges in any way. Likewise the tyres, swapped front to back for a tryout but no difference!
Even on a fast left hander ther's no sign of 'losing it.' Only that the car suddenly changes attitude.
So what do you think? Weak spring? Anti roll bar problem or should we be looking at the other end of the car?
Never very struck on this electric steeing mind - Generally feels quite 'dead' and at speed it seems to get quite heavy. However yer Renault people say this is normal for the car.
No exceptional noises at all, bearing runs smooth with no slop.
No play when levering the rear wheel in any direction but I don't think that would automatically show up wear in one of the axle mountings would it?
Tyre wear is a good suggestion tho' The tyre on O/S Rear was better than the others suggesting that it had been replaced most recently.
No play when levering the rear wheel in any direction but I don't think that would automatically show up wear in one of the axle mountings would it?
Tyre wear is a good suggestion tho' The tyre on O/S Rear was better than the others suggesting that it had been replaced most recently.
52classic said:
Weak spring?
If you changed the shocks then presumeably you would have noticed this, but Clio's springs seem to break a lot. Ours was MOT'd at the village garage (so means nothing) and passed, then next day went for service at a Renault dealer and they called to say that both rear springs were broken at the tops. I have a feeing they may have broken them by dangling the rear axle on a wheel free lift as the breaks looked very clean. What makes me think it's common is the dealer had loads in stock 9and they never had anything else I asked for!). The car drove normally driving it home. Renault replaced them FOC after I call ed Renault UK.
You can check the anti-roll bar links by just taking the front wheels off. The 'arms' of the bar point forwards under the bottom suspension arms and are attached to them with a short, rubber-bushed link. They're readily available on eBay if you need to replace.
As the 'arm' is underneath the suspension, it will still work (to an extent) on the inner wheel when cornering. Since you say your car is worse on left-handers, check the link on the right side first.
As the 'arm' is underneath the suspension, it will still work (to an extent) on the inner wheel when cornering. Since you say your car is worse on left-handers, check the link on the right side first.
Thanks lads.
Well the latest is that we changed the front AR bushes and the O/S rear spring, thinking that it is the one loaded when turning left.
With the spring off and shock disconnected it was a good chance to check the radius arm (beam axle) bush and there was no sign of any wear or play.
The alignment people say that there is a slight variation between the rear wheels but it is well within tollerance for a new car.
With all these changes the problem is still as bad as ever!
On a left turn it feels as if the O/S rear wheel is 'tucking in' although the steering and the front end feels fine. The car changes direction as if oversteering but the fault feels to be behind you.
Current thinking is to get a beam axle from a scrapper but isn't that a bit drastic?
Well the latest is that we changed the front AR bushes and the O/S rear spring, thinking that it is the one loaded when turning left.
With the spring off and shock disconnected it was a good chance to check the radius arm (beam axle) bush and there was no sign of any wear or play.
The alignment people say that there is a slight variation between the rear wheels but it is well within tollerance for a new car.
With all these changes the problem is still as bad as ever!
On a left turn it feels as if the O/S rear wheel is 'tucking in' although the steering and the front end feels fine. The car changes direction as if oversteering but the fault feels to be behind you.
Current thinking is to get a beam axle from a scrapper but isn't that a bit drastic?
52classic, sorry this is off thread, but if you dont know this already, make sure the bonnet catch is properly cleaned/maintained/serviced etc. Well documented issues of bonnets flying up on that model clio, nearly killed my dear wife, 70 up the A1 motorway and the inevitable happened, picking glass out of her face for days she was.
52classic said:
Well the latest is that we changed the front AR bushes
Did you check the arb links too? when the car's static, it's not easy to see if these are okay.Only other real thought is to find a corner where the trait's particularly bad and have someone stand on the outside of it whist you drive round. Then go the other way (hope you choose a quiet road!) and just look for anything odd happening.
Thanks Tl. To be honest I thought the bushes and the links were one and the same. We changed the wishbone end of the bar, 3 matalastic collars with a hex head bolt through them. Is there anything else to look at?
Seany, yes, we were thorough about that and indeed the catch was sticky when we first bought the car. My son is a driving instructor so we keep everything A1. That's why this problem is the more frustrating!
Seany, yes, we were thorough about that and indeed the catch was sticky when we first bought the car. My son is a driving instructor so we keep everything A1. That's why this problem is the more frustrating!
52classic said:
To be honest I thought the bushes and the links were one and the same. We changed the wishbone end of the bar, 3 matalastic collars with a hex head bolt through them. Is there anything else to look at?
Indeed they are - I just misunderstood 'bushes' as the mounting bushes, sorry!Anyway, if they're okay then it's clearly not those...out of interest, what tyres are you using?
I only ask because I've had various makes on my Clio and some have resulted in the most alarming handling characteristics
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