Long horizontal straight swirls after DA'ing my car??
Discussion
Hi, I'm hoping some of you more experienced detailers/DA users can help with this.
I recently bought a dark blue E46 3 series as a workhorse. The paintwork had lots of swirls and deeper scratches. The car has also had a lot of paint, if not a full respray.
Anyway, I decided to use my Deltalyo DA that my girlfriend bought me for Xmas.
I washed then clayed the car (Megs clay with detailer spray).
I then went round the car in 2ft squares, after doing a test patch on the bootlid, that didn't come up great but I was worried about going at it too hard so thought I'd do it anyway.
I used Megs 83 first which is a 6 out of ten cut on a speed of 4 on my machine. I went left to right, then back to front, then left to right and wiped of the excess. Results were ok but not wow.
I then spoke to a friend who lent me some G3 and G10 (yellow bottles). I tried his rotary but it was messy and not easy so I tried the paste (G3 I think, whatever one is for cutting) on my da but it wasn't much better than the Megs 83.
After I'd been round the car twice, once with Megs, once with G-whatever paste, I went round with Megs-80 speed glaze.
I then finished with Super resin polish as I couldn't get any hard wax (It was the weekend), then the Autoglym extra gloss protection (the watery stuff you leave to dry for half an hour, then buff off).
After all that the car had a great shine that all the neighbours commented on but I couldn't help thinking I'd have got just as good results with the SRP on its own without all the DA'ing. The paint did look better but by no means swirl-free like when I see a 50/50 pic by a detailer.
Anyway, fast forward until the next sunny day and I noticed long straight-ish swirls in the paint. A lot of the round swirls have gone by DA'ing but these longer swirls simply must have been caused by me I think. So what am I doing wrong.
I now have some Megs ultimate compund and a red pad to try, but before I waste another weekend, I just wondered if there is any help anyone can give me so I can hope for better results?
Thanks.
PS. I now have more respect than ever for you professional detailers. It's a lot bloody harder than it looks in those youtube guides.
PPS. I tried working my polish at different speeds but anything above 4 and the residue was like cement to wipe off and anything under 3 just didn't look like it was doing anything.
I recently bought a dark blue E46 3 series as a workhorse. The paintwork had lots of swirls and deeper scratches. The car has also had a lot of paint, if not a full respray.
Anyway, I decided to use my Deltalyo DA that my girlfriend bought me for Xmas.
I washed then clayed the car (Megs clay with detailer spray).
I then went round the car in 2ft squares, after doing a test patch on the bootlid, that didn't come up great but I was worried about going at it too hard so thought I'd do it anyway.
I used Megs 83 first which is a 6 out of ten cut on a speed of 4 on my machine. I went left to right, then back to front, then left to right and wiped of the excess. Results were ok but not wow.
I then spoke to a friend who lent me some G3 and G10 (yellow bottles). I tried his rotary but it was messy and not easy so I tried the paste (G3 I think, whatever one is for cutting) on my da but it wasn't much better than the Megs 83.
After I'd been round the car twice, once with Megs, once with G-whatever paste, I went round with Megs-80 speed glaze.
I then finished with Super resin polish as I couldn't get any hard wax (It was the weekend), then the Autoglym extra gloss protection (the watery stuff you leave to dry for half an hour, then buff off).
After all that the car had a great shine that all the neighbours commented on but I couldn't help thinking I'd have got just as good results with the SRP on its own without all the DA'ing. The paint did look better but by no means swirl-free like when I see a 50/50 pic by a detailer.
Anyway, fast forward until the next sunny day and I noticed long straight-ish swirls in the paint. A lot of the round swirls have gone by DA'ing but these longer swirls simply must have been caused by me I think. So what am I doing wrong.
I now have some Megs ultimate compund and a red pad to try, but before I waste another weekend, I just wondered if there is any help anyone can give me so I can hope for better results?
Thanks.
PS. I now have more respect than ever for you professional detailers. It's a lot bloody harder than it looks in those youtube guides.
PPS. I tried working my polish at different speeds but anything above 4 and the residue was like cement to wipe off and anything under 3 just didn't look like it was doing anything.
Edited by marky911 on Saturday 15th September 21:00
It sounds like you have left some buffer trails behind. BMW paint is pretty hard so you end up using an aggressive cut polish to remove defects but then leave behind buffer trails which need refining out with a lighter, finishing polish.
It is more difficult than it looks and takes time and practise, that's why Pro Detailers charge good money for a good job.
Have a look for posts from Kelly at KDS, his knowledge is over whelming and his advice is excellent and straight to the point.
It is more difficult than it looks and takes time and practise, that's why Pro Detailers charge good money for a good job.
Have a look for posts from Kelly at KDS, his knowledge is over whelming and his advice is excellent and straight to the point.
Hi lads,
thanks for the replies. That definitely sounds like it then, buffer trails.
The car has had paint and it's bloomin' hard so I did hammer it to remove the defects.
I mustn't have spent enough time with the speed glaze refining it, as you say.
Oh well, I'll try again with my new ultimate compound and red pad to actually remove the faults I couldn't last time and then I'll be much more thorough with the speed glaze.
Cheers lads.
PS. Yep, I'm a big admirer of KDS' work. Infact if I lived closer I'd try and get on one of his master classes but I'm up north of Newcastle upon Tyne.
I'll persevere though.
thanks for the replies. That definitely sounds like it then, buffer trails.
The car has had paint and it's bloomin' hard so I did hammer it to remove the defects.
I mustn't have spent enough time with the speed glaze refining it, as you say.
Oh well, I'll try again with my new ultimate compound and red pad to actually remove the faults I couldn't last time and then I'll be much more thorough with the speed glaze.
Cheers lads.
PS. Yep, I'm a big admirer of KDS' work. Infact if I lived closer I'd try and get on one of his master classes but I'm up north of Newcastle upon Tyne.
I'll persevere though.
Hi, I think so yes, from what I can remember. It was a couple of weeks ago now.
I found the longer I worked it the dryer the product got hence harder to wipe off the residue.
I was also worried about the residue drying out and causing more damage than it cured whilst spinning round on my paint?
I was getting a small patch of product left in the centre of the pad.
Figured I was using too much but if I used less, there wasn't much at all being worked.
Just to refresh, my most aggressive cutting compound was only 6/10 for cut. I now have the ultimate compound to try next.
Cheers
I found the longer I worked it the dryer the product got hence harder to wipe off the residue.
I was also worried about the residue drying out and causing more damage than it cured whilst spinning round on my paint?
I was getting a small patch of product left in the centre of the pad.
Figured I was using too much but if I used less, there wasn't much at all being worked.
Just to refresh, my most aggressive cutting compound was only 6/10 for cut. I now have the ultimate compound to try next.
Cheers
Wow! That looks great.
Mine looked like that until the sun came out.
I've had a quick look on there in the past but, never signed up.
I think it's about time I did.
I'll give the d/a another go soon. I was a bit miffed after last time but I'm a firm believer that anyone can do anything if they're shown how. Maybe not to world champion level but to a good standard.
Thanks for the help.
Mine looked like that until the sun came out.
I've had a quick look on there in the past but, never signed up.
I think it's about time I did.
I'll give the d/a another go soon. I was a bit miffed after last time but I'm a firm believer that anyone can do anything if they're shown how. Maybe not to world champion level but to a good standard.
Thanks for the help.
LordGrover said:
Experience. Go and practice on the missus, parents, neighbours, friends cars before you tackle your own.
Thats what I did... As well as read lots and lots on detailing world.It is a slippery slope, but it's cheaper (just) than modifying cars (I feel pity on the man who does both).
I was always under the impression you need to do a few passes (like 3 L-R, 3 T-B, then 3 L-R again) with the DA to breakdown the compound in order to get it working uniformally to avoid marring/holograms. So maybe more than the three passes you did. Obviously it will depend on your paint, Severity of defects and cutting compound etc
I could be wrong, however taking your time is the most important thing.
marky911 said:
Hi, I'm hoping some of you more experienced detailers/DA users can help with this.
if it is possible to post a few pics i would be able to help you Edited by marky911 on Saturday 15th September 21:00
do not get trapped into "BMW has hard paint" most later cars are not .
kelly
marky911 said:
PS. Yep, I'm a big admirer of KDS' work. Infact if I lived closer I'd try and get on one of his master classes but I'm up north of Newcastle upon Tyne.
I'll persevere though.
Hey now that not an excuse I'll persevere though.
trained a guy from Australia this week now thats trying.
I do travel once a year farther up the country for a group training days for this reason .
kelly
Dift said:
LordGrover said:
Experience. Go and practice on the missus, parents, neighbours, friends cars before you tackle your own.
Thats what I did... As well as read lots and lots on detailing world.It is a slippery slope, but it's cheaper (just) than modifying cars (I feel pity on the man who does both).
I was always under the impression you need to do a few passes (like 3 L-R, 3 T-B, then 3 L-R again) with the DA to breakdown the compound in order to get it working uniformally to avoid marring/holograms. So maybe more than the three passes you did. Obviously it will depend on your paint, Severity of defects and cutting compound etc
I could be wrong, however taking your time is the most important thing.
I was meant to get an old panel to practice on, but having just bought a new shed for work I figured I'd give it a go on that. Its a 2001 BMW 325 coupe in Dark metallic blue, maybe Montreal. I've never looked as I'm always busy.
I did take plenty of time, washed/clayed friday night, d/a'd on Saturday, polished on Sunday.
The funniest bit was when the neighbours walked past saying "Ooh what a lovely shine!" while I'm standing there ready to launch my d/a over the fence.
Anyway, I shall not be deterred.
kds keltec said:
Hey now that not an excuse
trained a guy from Australia this week now thats trying.
I do travel once a year farther up the country for a group training days for this reason .
kelly
Evening Kelly,trained a guy from Australia this week now thats trying.
I do travel once a year farther up the country for a group training days for this reason .
kelly
thanks for posting.
I suppose you'll have already done this years trek up north have you?
If not I'm very interested. Feel free to PM me some details if you don't want to go into things online, eg duration (I only have 2 days holiday left for the year), location (as long as it's nearer than London it's a start
), very approximate costs and how the days work, eg do we use our own cars and D/A's to practice with etc.I'll try and get some pics uploaded. Trouble is my camera usually makes cars look great. I'm really busy until Friday though and away on Saturday I think.
I will try though as an expert opinion would be great.
Thanks again, Mark.
ETA - Australia!? Did he come specifically for the training or did it coincide with something else? That is commitment.
Haven't measured it mate but it's had more paint than the Golden gate bridge.
I know what you mean though and I don't want to burn through what is there.
To be honest though, I never fully removed every imperfection so I think I went lightly on it really. I will be careful though with this Ultimate Compound stuff. It says 12/12 cut. The last stuff I used was only 6/10 and the speed glaze was 4/10.
Busy this weekend and it looks like autumn is with us. Rain all day here in Newcastle today, although I know you guys up there get your fair share.
I know what you mean though and I don't want to burn through what is there.
To be honest though, I never fully removed every imperfection so I think I went lightly on it really. I will be careful though with this Ultimate Compound stuff. It says 12/12 cut. The last stuff I used was only 6/10 and the speed glaze was 4/10.
Busy this weekend and it looks like autumn is with us. Rain all day here in Newcastle today, although I know you guys up there get your fair share.
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