How hard is spraying?
Discussion
Chaps,
This may be a ridiculous post. If so, I am sure I can rely on PH-ers to tell me so!
I have a 944. It's painted in Baltic Blue (mid-blue metallic, see my profile for a pic). It has a large stone chip on the bonnet. More of a crater than a chip, come to mention it. Huge.
I also have a compressor and a spray gun. You can see where this is going, can't you?
So, the Q. How hard is it to spray something like a bonnet? I'd probably buy a spare bonnet (so as not to leave the car without a bonnet for any length of time - it lives on the street) and spray that. I have a workshop and I'm practical. The compressor is a small one and the spray gun a cheap HVLP affair.
Am I mad? What are the odds of me making a half-decent job? (Bonnet = large, flat area, horizontal and quite visible once on the car.) Paint match I am guessing comes down to the sill of the guy mixing up the paint, but finish is down to the prep and skill of the guy putting the paint on, which would be me. I have never sprayed car bodywork before, but have sprayed other things (garden furniture, fireplaces, leather dye and so on.)
I'd be happy to hear any suggestions and advice (even if it is "don't even think about it.") Also helpful stuff like where to buy paint and how much to buy and so on ...
Thanks!
Oli.
This may be a ridiculous post. If so, I am sure I can rely on PH-ers to tell me so!
I have a 944. It's painted in Baltic Blue (mid-blue metallic, see my profile for a pic). It has a large stone chip on the bonnet. More of a crater than a chip, come to mention it. Huge.
I also have a compressor and a spray gun. You can see where this is going, can't you?
So, the Q. How hard is it to spray something like a bonnet? I'd probably buy a spare bonnet (so as not to leave the car without a bonnet for any length of time - it lives on the street) and spray that. I have a workshop and I'm practical. The compressor is a small one and the spray gun a cheap HVLP affair.
Am I mad? What are the odds of me making a half-decent job? (Bonnet = large, flat area, horizontal and quite visible once on the car.) Paint match I am guessing comes down to the sill of the guy mixing up the paint, but finish is down to the prep and skill of the guy putting the paint on, which would be me. I have never sprayed car bodywork before, but have sprayed other things (garden furniture, fireplaces, leather dye and so on.)
I'd be happy to hear any suggestions and advice (even if it is "don't even think about it.") Also helpful stuff like where to buy paint and how much to buy and so on ...
Thanks!
Oli.
Oli, I've sprayed lots of cars & bits thereof over the years. Spraying to match the rest of the car is damned hard. Especially old metallics like yours. Also it would have to be cellulose or acrylics as you can't use two pack at home. I have a tame spray guy who does a fantastic job for not much more than the materials would cost me so don't bother any more.
On my 944 when I had it I did start refinishing it in a brilliant white using Rustoleum sprayed. I used aerosols for the little bits, as it isn't worth faffing with a gun as the cleaning will take longer than the painting.
If you really want to have a go, shout in the spring when it warms up & you're welcome to have a go here (NW Kent) & I can teach you. I have big compressor & a variety of airbrushes & guns. It needs to be a damn sight warmer than it is now though.
On my 944 when I had it I did start refinishing it in a brilliant white using Rustoleum sprayed. I used aerosols for the little bits, as it isn't worth faffing with a gun as the cleaning will take longer than the painting.
If you really want to have a go, shout in the spring when it warms up & you're welcome to have a go here (NW Kent) & I can teach you. I have big compressor & a variety of airbrushes & guns. It needs to be a damn sight warmer than it is now though.
forget the spraying, worry about the prep.
have a gander here at what this chap does once all the rust is fixed: http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=1...
have a gander here at what this chap does once all the rust is fixed: http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=1...
Even if you get all the prep right the chances are your paint will never match the original colour so the wings and bumper would also need to be blown in.
If you're not bothered about a perfect colour match then are you bothered about the finish cos the chances are you'll not get a perfect finish.
Exactly what equipment have you got?
There's a whole range of different guns most of which can have large or small needles and large or small air caps which regulate how much paint they put out and it's having the right size of gun correctly set up (in the hands of someone who knows what they are doing) that makes spraying look easy. Have you got a primer gun, a colour gun and a lacquer gun. You've got to get the correct gun set up to suit each stage of the the job?
Does your compressor suit your gun, does it have a regulator and have you got filters between your compressor and gun to prevent contamination?
In short having a bit of kit doesn't mean you can do it.
It's just not easy for a novice to produce an even half decent job.
Training doesn't come cheap and/or apprenticeships are long - and even after years of experience most sprayers will admit that they're still on a learning curve.
If spraying was easy sprayshops wouldn't exist.
If you're not bothered about a perfect colour match then are you bothered about the finish cos the chances are you'll not get a perfect finish.
Exactly what equipment have you got?
There's a whole range of different guns most of which can have large or small needles and large or small air caps which regulate how much paint they put out and it's having the right size of gun correctly set up (in the hands of someone who knows what they are doing) that makes spraying look easy. Have you got a primer gun, a colour gun and a lacquer gun. You've got to get the correct gun set up to suit each stage of the the job?
Does your compressor suit your gun, does it have a regulator and have you got filters between your compressor and gun to prevent contamination?
In short having a bit of kit doesn't mean you can do it.
It's just not easy for a novice to produce an even half decent job.
Training doesn't come cheap and/or apprenticeships are long - and even after years of experience most sprayers will admit that they're still on a learning curve.
If spraying was easy sprayshops wouldn't exist.
Edited by Squiggs on Thursday 6th December 18:11
Squiggs,
Great questions, thanks for your post. In turn:
Colour: OK. I guess a small job thus becomes bigger and bigger. How easy is it to match paint? Would I be mixing it, or would I go to find someone who would mix it for me? Stupid point, but I guess I would take the car there and he would do it by eye? (I have no idea where to get paint from, which is another point!)
Yes, I am bothered about the finish but am aware that the rest of the car isn't concourse. It's in very good condition for the age, but that is over 20 years old. I'd quite like to touch up some stone-rash on the rear wings while I am at it too, but this may be a step too far.
Kit? I bought the air compressor and did a PH thread about it here. The spray gun came from (don't laugh) Lidl. It's a HVLP one, and I don't know who made it. I do know that I have used it to get some good results on other things, most notably a very large victorian fireplace which I sprayed a gloss black (with thinned-down smoothrite paint). I am sure this is light years away from spraying a car, but everyone has to start somewhere ... No, I don't have filters between the compressor and the gun. What sort of filters would I need?
I haven't chosen any type of paint yet - I don't know what the options are. I know that there is a type that is quite poisonous when sprayed, but that's about it!
"If spraying was easy sprayshops wouldn't exist."
I see what you are saying there, but I find working on cars very easy and yet garages still exist. I also see alot of computer repair shops around and yet have never struggled to maintain my computer myself. And there is a laundrette not that far away from me, although I have never struggled to do my washing myself either. My point is that I am more practical than most, and if this is something that is not utterly impossible for a raw amateur to have a crack at then I'd like to have a go. If the odds of me getting anything other than a big 'ol mess are slender then I will pony up the cash and get it done by a pro, but I am currently seeing this as an opportunity to (self-)learn a new skill.
Oli.
Great questions, thanks for your post. In turn:
Colour: OK. I guess a small job thus becomes bigger and bigger. How easy is it to match paint? Would I be mixing it, or would I go to find someone who would mix it for me? Stupid point, but I guess I would take the car there and he would do it by eye? (I have no idea where to get paint from, which is another point!)
Yes, I am bothered about the finish but am aware that the rest of the car isn't concourse. It's in very good condition for the age, but that is over 20 years old. I'd quite like to touch up some stone-rash on the rear wings while I am at it too, but this may be a step too far.
Kit? I bought the air compressor and did a PH thread about it here. The spray gun came from (don't laugh) Lidl. It's a HVLP one, and I don't know who made it. I do know that I have used it to get some good results on other things, most notably a very large victorian fireplace which I sprayed a gloss black (with thinned-down smoothrite paint). I am sure this is light years away from spraying a car, but everyone has to start somewhere ... No, I don't have filters between the compressor and the gun. What sort of filters would I need?
I haven't chosen any type of paint yet - I don't know what the options are. I know that there is a type that is quite poisonous when sprayed, but that's about it!
"If spraying was easy sprayshops wouldn't exist."
I see what you are saying there, but I find working on cars very easy and yet garages still exist. I also see alot of computer repair shops around and yet have never struggled to maintain my computer myself. And there is a laundrette not that far away from me, although I have never struggled to do my washing myself either. My point is that I am more practical than most, and if this is something that is not utterly impossible for a raw amateur to have a crack at then I'd like to have a go. If the odds of me getting anything other than a big 'ol mess are slender then I will pony up the cash and get it done by a pro, but I am currently seeing this as an opportunity to (self-)learn a new skill.
Oli.
zcacogp said:
Jim,
If that's a genuine offer then I'd love to take you up on it - thanks. Mind if I eMail you sometime when it's a bit warmer?
Crafty, that is an immense amount of work!
Oli.
Of course it is a genuine offer. I was taught by a pro who had given it up to do other things. The garage is now at the point where I can see the floor! Got a good paint shop locally who can mix to order but practising with expensive metallic paint isn't a good idea. I do have a big tin of Rustoleum Brilliant white here which didn't go with the car. We could practise with that. Brake cleaner removes it whilst it is wet. You could do with a small panel to practise with like a mini size bootlid or similar.If that's a genuine offer then I'd love to take you up on it - thanks. Mind if I eMail you sometime when it's a bit warmer?
Crafty, that is an immense amount of work!
Oli.
If the paintshop mixing the paint is any good they should have variations of your colour that they can show you. They more than likely wont match it for you because if it turns out wrong when painted they will be responsible. So it will be up to you to pick the variant.
Seeing those pictures in that M3 thread makes me miss painting
Seeing those pictures in that M3 thread makes me miss painting
TROOPER88 said:
There you go!
Page 6 on is where I began the painting.
I have since had the bodyshop asking me to go and work for them! Give it a go...
Where are you based OP? If you are local I will give you a hand.
Paul
Sorry the link!!Page 6 on is where I began the painting.
I have since had the bodyshop asking me to go and work for them! Give it a go...
Where are you based OP? If you are local I will give you a hand.
Paul
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
Cheers!
zcacogp said:
"If spraying was easy sprayshops wouldn't exist."
I see what you are saying there, but I find working on cars very easy and yet garages still exist. I also see alot of computer repair shops around and yet have never struggled to maintain my computer myself. And there is a laundrette not that far away from me, although I have never struggled to do my washing myself either. My point is that I am more practical than most, and if this is something that is not utterly impossible for a raw amateur to have a crack at then I'd like to have a go. If the odds of me getting anything other than a big 'ol mess are slender then I will pony up the cash and get it done by a pro, but I am currently seeing this as an opportunity to (self-)learn a new skill.
Oli.
I think I've seen the gun you've got ... in fact I think I got one (is it green?) I bought mine because I needed to quickly change the colour of some cheap furniture (rather than risk using one of my proper guns and spoiling it by pushing paint through it that it wasn't designed for) and even then I wasn't happy with it as a piece of equipment and binned it as soon as I'd finished the job.
I can categorically state it would be no good whatsoever for any kind bodywork spraying!
No disrespect but you've no idea of the quality of the equipment that's required, nor of the practise and experience required to turn out even a half decent job. And by the time you've equipped yourself with the correct guns, filters for your comp etc,etc, it'll probably work out 10 times cheaper to get a bodyshop to do it .... and a bodyshop, even one turning out really shoddy work, will produce 10 times the quality that you will.
It's not impossible for a raw amateur to have a go - but a raw amateur will never produce a job that's going to please them or anybody else.
You did ask for honest answers in your first post - I'm done
Squiggs said:
I've painted my front room but I wouldn't dream of thinking I could do a decent copy of the Mona Lisa and I can make a paper plane but I don't think Boeing have anything to worry about.
I think I've seen the gun you've got ... in fact I think I got one (is it green?) I bought mine because I needed to quickly change the colour of some cheap furniture (rather than risk using one of my proper guns and spoiling it by pushing paint through it that it wasn't designed for) and even then I wasn't happy with it as a piece of equipment and binned it as soon as I'd finished the job.
I can categorically state it would be no good whatsoever for any kind bodywork spraying!
No disrespect but you've no idea of the quality of the equipment that's required, nor of the practise and experience required to turn out even a half decent job. And by the time you've equipped yourself with the correct guns, filters for your comp etc,etc, it'll probably work out 10 times cheaper to get a bodyshop to do it .... and a bodyshop, even one turning out really shoddy work, will produce 10 times the quality that you will.
It's not impossible for a raw amateur to have a go - but a raw amateur will never produce a job that's going to please them or anybody else.
You did ask for honest answers in your first post - I'm done
It's not impossible for a raw amateur to have a go - but a raw amateur will never produce a job that's going to please them or anybody else.I think I've seen the gun you've got ... in fact I think I got one (is it green?) I bought mine because I needed to quickly change the colour of some cheap furniture (rather than risk using one of my proper guns and spoiling it by pushing paint through it that it wasn't designed for) and even then I wasn't happy with it as a piece of equipment and binned it as soon as I'd finished the job.
I can categorically state it would be no good whatsoever for any kind bodywork spraying!
No disrespect but you've no idea of the quality of the equipment that's required, nor of the practise and experience required to turn out even a half decent job. And by the time you've equipped yourself with the correct guns, filters for your comp etc,etc, it'll probably work out 10 times cheaper to get a bodyshop to do it .... and a bodyshop, even one turning out really shoddy work, will produce 10 times the quality that you will.
It's not impossible for a raw amateur to have a go - but a raw amateur will never produce a job that's going to please them or anybody else.
You did ask for honest answers in your first post - I'm done
You did ask for honest answers in your first post - I'm done
Absolute rubbish!
I did...
I was delighted with the finish and others (inc pro's) have been very impressed.
See my link above.
TROOPER88 said:
Squiggs said:
I've painted my front room but I wouldn't dream of thinking I could do a decent copy of the Mona Lisa and I can make a paper plane but I don't think Boeing have anything to worry about.
I think I've seen the gun you've got ... in fact I think I got one (is it green?) I bought mine because I needed to quickly change the colour of some cheap furniture (rather than risk using one of my proper guns and spoiling it by pushing paint through it that it wasn't designed for) and even then I wasn't happy with it as a piece of equipment and binned it as soon as I'd finished the job.
I can categorically state it would be no good whatsoever for any kind bodywork spraying!
No disrespect but you've no idea of the quality of the equipment that's required, nor of the practise and experience required to turn out even a half decent job. And by the time you've equipped yourself with the correct guns, filters for your comp etc,etc, it'll probably work out 10 times cheaper to get a bodyshop to do it .... and a bodyshop, even one turning out really shoddy work, will produce 10 times the quality that you will.
It's not impossible for a raw amateur to have a go - but a raw amateur will never produce a job that's going to please them or anybody else.
You did ask for honest answers in your first post - I'm done
It's not impossible for a raw amateur to have a go - but a raw amateur will never produce a job that's going to please them or anybody else.I think I've seen the gun you've got ... in fact I think I got one (is it green?) I bought mine because I needed to quickly change the colour of some cheap furniture (rather than risk using one of my proper guns and spoiling it by pushing paint through it that it wasn't designed for) and even then I wasn't happy with it as a piece of equipment and binned it as soon as I'd finished the job.
I can categorically state it would be no good whatsoever for any kind bodywork spraying!
No disrespect but you've no idea of the quality of the equipment that's required, nor of the practise and experience required to turn out even a half decent job. And by the time you've equipped yourself with the correct guns, filters for your comp etc,etc, it'll probably work out 10 times cheaper to get a bodyshop to do it .... and a bodyshop, even one turning out really shoddy work, will produce 10 times the quality that you will.
It's not impossible for a raw amateur to have a go - but a raw amateur will never produce a job that's going to please them or anybody else.
You did ask for honest answers in your first post - I'm done
You did ask for honest answers in your first post - I'm done
Absolute rubbish!
I did...
I was delighted with the finish and others (inc pro's) have been very impressed.
See my link above.
(Nice work BTW)
Chaps,
Thanks for your various answers. Trooper, thanks particularly for the link to your thread; it looks like you did a marvellous job from a standing start on that little fiesta, and have thus answered my question brilliantly! Your offer of help is very kind too, although I'm at the other end of town (Bow, E3) and hence it would be a miserable 'ol journey. I think I'll be taking Jim up on his kind offer instead as I know where he is, and it's an easier (albeit probably longer) journey
Interesting that I can get two diametrically opposite points of view - Trooper saying "Yes you can get good results readily" and Squiggs saying "No you can't". I suspect this bit is key;
Squiggs, yes, that's the gun. It's that bad is it? Ho humm, I guess it cost me £10 so I'll keep it for the sort of spraying that is less demanding ...
Thanks for your input chaps. Jim, I'll be in touch ...
Oli.
P.S. All the best with that Mk1 Trooper. I've had four of them, two GTi's, and they are a LOT of fun!
Thanks for your various answers. Trooper, thanks particularly for the link to your thread; it looks like you did a marvellous job from a standing start on that little fiesta, and have thus answered my question brilliantly! Your offer of help is very kind too, although I'm at the other end of town (Bow, E3) and hence it would be a miserable 'ol journey. I think I'll be taking Jim up on his kind offer instead as I know where he is, and it's an easier (albeit probably longer) journey
Interesting that I can get two diametrically opposite points of view - Trooper saying "Yes you can get good results readily" and Squiggs saying "No you can't". I suspect this bit is key;
Squiggs said:
To be fair Trooper you did start on suspension, a fuel tank and worked your way up, rather than taking on a full bonnet straight off the bat.
I'd be starting straight off on a bonnet (which I guess is one of the most visible bits of the car, so imperfections will be very noticable) and it's metallic paint, which is probably both more expensive and harder. Trooper, you did a lovely job but with a flat colour which must be easier. Squiggs, yes, that's the gun. It's that bad is it? Ho humm, I guess it cost me £10 so I'll keep it for the sort of spraying that is less demanding ...
Thanks for your input chaps. Jim, I'll be in touch ...
Oli.
P.S. All the best with that Mk1 Trooper. I've had four of them, two GTi's, and they are a LOT of fun!
zcacogp said:
I'd be starting straight off on a bonnet (which I guess is one of the most visible bits of the car, so imperfections will be very noticable) and it's metallic paint, which is probably both more expensive and harder. Trooper, you did a lovely job but with a flat colour which must be easier.
Squiggs, yes, that's the gun. It's that bad is it? Ho humm, I guess it cost me £10 so I'll keep it for the sort of spraying that is less demanding ...
Thanks for your input chaps. Jim, I'll be in touch ...
Oli.
P.S. All the best with that Mk1 Trooper. I've had four of them, two GTi's, and they are a LOT of fun!
Thanks mate!Squiggs, yes, that's the gun. It's that bad is it? Ho humm, I guess it cost me £10 so I'll keep it for the sort of spraying that is less demanding ...
Thanks for your input chaps. Jim, I'll be in touch ...
Oli.
P.S. All the best with that Mk1 Trooper. I've had four of them, two GTi's, and they are a LOT of fun!
All the suspension parts and the fuel tank were painted with aerosols.
I had never used a spray gun with a compressor until it was time to paint the car. I was given a Devilbiss gun from a friend at the bodyshop which I believe are top quality.
The actual spraying is a piece of cake. What takes the time and skill is the prep. Get that wrong and the end result will be poor. You need a clean, dry, dust free environment. Make sure you wet the floor to stop dust blowing.
Any help you need just let me know.
I plan on painting the MK1 Golf over Christmas.
Good luck!
If you are thinking of doing it to save money, dont bother. In my part of the world (midlands) I pay around 80 quid to get a bonnet prepped and painted. But if its something you want to do, then what have you got to lose, get a spare bonnet, prep and spray to your hearts content until you either get an acceptable result or you get fed up.
If you dont try you dont know but expect a lot of trial and error, and make that lots of error.
If you dont try you dont know but expect a lot of trial and error, and make that lots of error.
I use a couple of guys for my work:
1) a guy by the name of Matt, he works in a small unit on the farm next to the National Arboretum, Alrewas.
2) Kershaw body shop, unit 10 prospect Road, Burntwood.
I only have personal numbers for these guys, so am unable topass on, but if you are localish, pop along and see them.
1) a guy by the name of Matt, he works in a small unit on the farm next to the National Arboretum, Alrewas.
2) Kershaw body shop, unit 10 prospect Road, Burntwood.
I only have personal numbers for these guys, so am unable topass on, but if you are localish, pop along and see them.
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