What sealant / wax for a red gel coat Ultima GTR?
Discussion
I am half way through a good wash, clay, compound, polish and finishing polish job on an Ultima GTR. Picture of before and after of gel coat to remove swirl marks seen here. I am now turning my thoughts towards a good sealant and wax. As I work in the marine industry I'm aware of Starbrite Teflon polish which works well (says polish on bottle but actually it is a sealant / wax). On my other cars I have used Collinite's Automobile Marque d'Elegance No 915 and happy with this product. I'm thinking of two coats of the tefelon polish as a sealant and then using Collinite's 915 as a final wax coat. Any thoughts anyone? Should provide good protection but not sure about showing off the new polished gloss gel coat surface? So is there a polish recommended which gives a wet red gloss look as well. Any thoughts shared on this subject are much appreciated.
A glaze will help the paint really gain a depth and wet look, and to top it off if you have the time GTechnique have probably the best priced products on the market for what you want. These can be tricky products to work with but the results are fantastic. Otherwise Swissvax, Dodo Juice or Zymol.
Apologise for the delay in replying. Being a fibre glass body work with gel coat finish I was very wary of too much heat dis-colouring the gel coat, plus being a beginner with a polisher I chose a DA rather than a rotary. Also to prevent my recently gained detailing disorder from creating any financial burden I went for the Das-6 Pro DA polisher which with hind sight gave the results I was looking for.
So firstly it was a good rinse followed by a good wash with soft wash mit,(two bucket method), followed by a claying with lubricant, followed by another good wash and then dried with a woolly mammoth drying towel that are great. Then a detail gel coat inspection. Well I started the project in February when there was no sunlight so into the garage and scrounging around for every type of torch, lamp shade, study desk light, camping light, camera flash, even tried a lit candle, I could find to observe the defects and swirls in the surface.
I was happy with the amount of gel coat to play with as I had seen many core samples in the factory, plus I had a stone chip on the lower rear wing to attend too which exposed the fibre glass within. I had lots more than a clearcoat painted car and was not concerned with polishing off the gel coat all together in any way.
Now to the polishing. Well being my pride a joy I took a cautious approach. Asked on the forums, researched the internet, and watched the 'Junkman youtube videos' that were very helpful. I decided on Meguiares compound, polishing and finishing 4 inch (smaller pads) and Meguiars 105 cutting polish and 205 finishing polish. I started with a small section with finishing pad and finishing polish, inspected, then went up a pad, inspected, then went up to cutting polish and finally felt comfortable with starting with Meg's cutting pad and cutting 105 polish. (I believe that the Meg's compound pad is actually still quite a soft pad compared to some on the market). Being very pleased with the results but cautious of creating any ghosting of holograms I finished off polishing pad / finishing polish and then again with a finishing pad / finishing polish. This was very time consuming and even more so with a DA rather than a rotary, but it was working as the picture above shows and there were no side effects of damage created (apart from a sore back)!
Now with more confidence I use compound pad and polish for defects, followed by polishing pad and finishing polish. For minor swirls polishing pad and finishing polish is all that is required. With the many convex and concave curves on an Ultima I found the small pads better for an even contact with the surface, even so I was going through many pads that I did not originally budget for.
Polishing finished, I wiped the whole car down with diluted mix 50/50 of IPA to clean car of polish. In a perfect world I guess a wash & IPA wipe down would be better but time and weather were against me. I used Chemical Guys EZ glaze as I wanted to bring out a bold red colour of the car. This was applied with a Meg finishing pad & DA. Then finished with two thin coats of Collinite 915 wax that I applied and left to sit for half day before buffing off. Thin coats are important as otherwise too hard to buff off and will leave its own hologram affects in the sun light, imo, but good long lasting protection and shine. I hope that is helpful for you.
If any of you Pro's are cringing at reading this than I would appreciate some guidance. Sore back, lack of time and money saved in all the gear can go towards a Pro topping it up and correcting it more in the future
So firstly it was a good rinse followed by a good wash with soft wash mit,(two bucket method), followed by a claying with lubricant, followed by another good wash and then dried with a woolly mammoth drying towel that are great. Then a detail gel coat inspection. Well I started the project in February when there was no sunlight so into the garage and scrounging around for every type of torch, lamp shade, study desk light, camping light, camera flash, even tried a lit candle, I could find to observe the defects and swirls in the surface.
I was happy with the amount of gel coat to play with as I had seen many core samples in the factory, plus I had a stone chip on the lower rear wing to attend too which exposed the fibre glass within. I had lots more than a clearcoat painted car and was not concerned with polishing off the gel coat all together in any way.
Now to the polishing. Well being my pride a joy I took a cautious approach. Asked on the forums, researched the internet, and watched the 'Junkman youtube videos' that were very helpful. I decided on Meguiares compound, polishing and finishing 4 inch (smaller pads) and Meguiars 105 cutting polish and 205 finishing polish. I started with a small section with finishing pad and finishing polish, inspected, then went up a pad, inspected, then went up to cutting polish and finally felt comfortable with starting with Meg's cutting pad and cutting 105 polish. (I believe that the Meg's compound pad is actually still quite a soft pad compared to some on the market). Being very pleased with the results but cautious of creating any ghosting of holograms I finished off polishing pad / finishing polish and then again with a finishing pad / finishing polish. This was very time consuming and even more so with a DA rather than a rotary, but it was working as the picture above shows and there were no side effects of damage created (apart from a sore back)!
Now with more confidence I use compound pad and polish for defects, followed by polishing pad and finishing polish. For minor swirls polishing pad and finishing polish is all that is required. With the many convex and concave curves on an Ultima I found the small pads better for an even contact with the surface, even so I was going through many pads that I did not originally budget for.
Polishing finished, I wiped the whole car down with diluted mix 50/50 of IPA to clean car of polish. In a perfect world I guess a wash & IPA wipe down would be better but time and weather were against me. I used Chemical Guys EZ glaze as I wanted to bring out a bold red colour of the car. This was applied with a Meg finishing pad & DA. Then finished with two thin coats of Collinite 915 wax that I applied and left to sit for half day before buffing off. Thin coats are important as otherwise too hard to buff off and will leave its own hologram affects in the sun light, imo, but good long lasting protection and shine. I hope that is helpful for you.
If any of you Pro's are cringing at reading this than I would appreciate some guidance. Sore back, lack of time and money saved in all the gear can go towards a Pro topping it up and correcting it more in the future
Many thanks! It was my first Waxstock. I thought it would be no good for the show your own car section so left it outside in the carpark. I actually have to turn the bold setting down on my Nikon SLR camera when taking photos of the car as otherwise the red is too bold and over exposes any detail.
It is still work in progress. I have to do the horizontal bodywork behind the rear wing supports and round the door locks by hand as too tight for a machine. I have concentrated mostly on the horizontal sections of body work as that is where the swirl police can easily check in the sun however I need to focus some more attention on the vertical panels next week. Another item I did chat with KDS's colleagues about are the swirls in the polycarbonate side windows. It seems that this will be labour intensive to remove only to be scratched easily again as its polycarbonate. My view now is leave it as it is. It is a kit car based on a 1970 Class C Le Mans Race car after all and not a show room masterpiece!
The only problem with removing all the swirl marks is that it shows up bigger scratches and other imperfections evident from car keys, jewellery, and clumsiness while working on and opening and closing the front & rear clips and moving round a tight garage. It gets used often and with such a low car the front end and windscreen do get peppered with stone chips. I must say for every hour of driving I put in the same amount of time of mechanical checks, fettling, and mostly detailing. Going forward, looking at the options of front end re-shoot to a very high quality level, considering the prep complications of been fibre glass against the time and money detailing what I have, I will try to train myself to reach an OCD limit and after a season of track days just replace the whole front clip.
Once again many thanks. I hope to look good for Wilton House Super Car show in 10 days time, come perfect sunshine or water beading rain!
It is still work in progress. I have to do the horizontal bodywork behind the rear wing supports and round the door locks by hand as too tight for a machine. I have concentrated mostly on the horizontal sections of body work as that is where the swirl police can easily check in the sun
however I need to focus some more attention on the vertical panels next week. Another item I did chat with KDS's colleagues about are the swirls in the polycarbonate side windows. It seems that this will be labour intensive to remove only to be scratched easily again as its polycarbonate. My view now is leave it as it is. It is a kit car based on a 1970 Class C Le Mans Race car after all and not a show room masterpiece!The only problem with removing all the swirl marks is that it shows up bigger scratches and other imperfections evident from car keys, jewellery, and clumsiness while working on and opening and closing the front & rear clips and moving round a tight garage. It gets used often and with such a low car the front end and windscreen do get peppered with stone chips. I must say for every hour of driving I put in the same amount of time of mechanical checks, fettling, and mostly detailing. Going forward, looking at the options of front end re-shoot to a very high quality level, considering the prep complications of been fibre glass against the time and money detailing what I have, I will try to train myself to reach an OCD limit and after a season of track days just replace the whole front clip.
Once again many thanks. I hope to look good for Wilton House Super Car show in 10 days time, come perfect sunshine or water beading rain!
One product that might be of interest is the Modesto range. It has some bold claims but from memory the polish/cleaner has correction and filling abilities and one of the coatings has claims of adding 10mil to the paint and upto 10 years durability.
It's quite expensive but could be what you're looking for.
I presume you're on DW if you went to wax stock? (Alex L here) there's a thread by Paul Dalton (miracle detail) over there with an AM V12 Vantage that looks pretty awesome.
It's quite expensive but could be what you're looking for.
I presume you're on DW if you went to wax stock? (Alex L here) there's a thread by Paul Dalton (miracle detail) over there with an AM V12 Vantage that looks pretty awesome.
Tony Starks said:
One product that might be of interest is the Modesto range. It has some bold claims but from memory the polish/cleaner has correction and filling abilities and one of the coatings has claims of adding 10mil to the paint and upto 10 years durability.
It's quite expensive but could be what you're looking for.
I would not believe the claims from these type of coatings (the thickness part).It's quite expensive but could be what you're looking for.
I heard of companys saying their coating lays down 30 microns of protection.
Let me explain.
To repaint a car fully with lacquer you would use between 5 litres to 10 litres of lacquer (depending on size / type of lacquer etc etc) this lays down around 40-60 microns of clear coat lacquer.
Yes you have to take into many factors when spraying paint which alter how much is not on the surface of the car being sprayed but going up and out the extraction BUT it should be a low percentage of total material.
So when i see bottles of miracle products that are around 30ml - 150ml in the bottle,, you have to ask yourself how can it spread over a very large area ,,,,,,and still give such a so called thick layer??????
yes i have many times worked out the surface area of a car we have fully resprayed , measured and logged the amount of lacquer clear coat , and then finally measure the paint depth average over the car
Any thing that is a miracle normally is the opposite
5000ml on a smallish car will give 40-50 microns film build of paint.
your 10 mils you quoted is 254 microns think ,,, 1mils = 25.4 microns.
lastly the human eye can see very easily a fault / change in paint depth or around 1-2 microns , this is the typical depth of swirls.
orange peel FULLY removed can be as low as 6 microns, a slight bend / dent in paint can be less than or around same depth as orange.
Any coating thats lays more than a micron or 2 will not be able to be applied by anything other than a spray gun.
we got a germany lacquer with KDS right now and the owner of the company applied it to one of our training bonnets using the same method as "normal" coatings it left loads of uneven lines on the surface.
tests found that your glass/quartz type coatings would need around 10-20 applications to measure a micron.
kelly
Interesting points, thanks Kelly.
When you break it down like that it makes things a lot more clearer. I do recall it was maybe Opti-coat that claimed 1-2 micron added to the paint that was never confirmed. Even when I applied it to my car my poverty spec ptg didn't pick up a difference, but it did offer much better marring resistance than anything I'd used before. Just a shame dirt and dust stuck to it like poop on a blanket and the waterspots were the worst I've ever seen from any LSP.
as I said 'claims' because I hadn't seen it verified anywhere.
When you break it down like that it makes things a lot more clearer. I do recall it was maybe Opti-coat that claimed 1-2 micron added to the paint that was never confirmed. Even when I applied it to my car my poverty spec ptg didn't pick up a difference, but it did offer much better marring resistance than anything I'd used before. Just a shame dirt and dust stuck to it like poop on a blanket and the waterspots were the worst I've ever seen from any LSP.
as I said 'claims' because I hadn't seen it verified anywhere.
Tony Starks said:
Interesting points, thanks Kelly.
When you break it down like that it makes things a lot more clearer. I do recall it was maybe Opti-coat that claimed 1-2 micron added to the paint that was never confirmed. Even when I applied it to my car my poverty spec ptg didn't pick up a difference, but it did offer much better marring resistance than anything I'd used before. Just a shame dirt and dust stuck to it like poop on a blanket and the waterspots were the worst I've ever seen from any LSP.
as I said 'claims' because I hadn't seen it verified anywhere.
I am afraid most of the time as the saying goes "if it sounds too good to be true then it is"When you break it down like that it makes things a lot more clearer. I do recall it was maybe Opti-coat that claimed 1-2 micron added to the paint that was never confirmed. Even when I applied it to my car my poverty spec ptg didn't pick up a difference, but it did offer much better marring resistance than anything I'd used before. Just a shame dirt and dust stuck to it like poop on a blanket and the waterspots were the worst I've ever seen from any LSP.
as I said 'claims' because I hadn't seen it verified anywhere.
Waxes have been around for 100 years, the latest specialist coatings only 10-15 years tops, we are still learning about them and how to get the best from them.
Staining is a big issue with specialist coatings for one thing.
Any coating with a true one micron application or more from one visit won’t be able to be applied with cloth or applicator pad.
Coatings need different aftercare treatment to waxes and sealants.
Yes many of these coatings feel grabby and dust can stick to them.
I think in a hard economic climate its why people "up" their claims to help sell products or help sell why use them as a preferred detailer and stand out from the crowd.
Happens day to day in all walks of life.
A wax (good quality) is nearly fool proof to apply and use by any one (with shortest life span)
A sealant is slightly trickery to use and can go wrong occasional (longer life span)
A specialist quartz / glass / ceramic / resin coating is very difficult to apply properly and very easy to go wrong without training and understanding (longest life span BUT not any more than 1-2 years that I seen so far)
kelly
Lol you crack me up Kelly.
Have you tried it?
Ive been testing it for over 12 months, its far better than anything else on the market and the claims do stack up. WAC detailing in Thailand a good friend of mine has been using it for over 4 years, with BC06 on his race cars and the other coatings in the range on his clients cars.
Test it and your see!
The Modesta coatings are the thickest coatings on the market and by far the most durable, over the last 12 months Ive been paid a lot of money from my main sponsor to test all glass coatings to extreme and see which ones were the best. On wheels it works far better than any other coating on the market today. I only found the Modesta coatings by chance from contacting all the companies in the world who did glass coatings, Modesta was by far the most impressive and the most expensive.
Anyway, its not a coating I will be selling much of coz its too bl**dy good, a whole day to apply correctly and I wont be seeing my clients for quiet some time either And its not a coating to be applied in a rush either, I do Modesta coatings at night, no phone calls, just peace n quiet, when you use the product, you then straight away think, "oh my god what is this stuff" yes it goes on like butter and comes off like syrup or worse if your not careful, but the depth and durability is insane.
Oh yer and its firework resistant, but I wont go there... time for sleep...
Kind Regards
Paul
Have you tried it?
Ive been testing it for over 12 months, its far better than anything else on the market and the claims do stack up. WAC detailing in Thailand a good friend of mine has been using it for over 4 years, with BC06 on his race cars and the other coatings in the range on his clients cars.
Test it and your see!
The Modesta coatings are the thickest coatings on the market and by far the most durable, over the last 12 months Ive been paid a lot of money from my main sponsor to test all glass coatings to extreme and see which ones were the best. On wheels it works far better than any other coating on the market today. I only found the Modesta coatings by chance from contacting all the companies in the world who did glass coatings, Modesta was by far the most impressive and the most expensive.
Anyway, its not a coating I will be selling much of coz its too bl**dy good, a whole day to apply correctly and I wont be seeing my clients for quiet some time either
And its not a coating to be applied in a rush either, I do Modesta coatings at night, no phone calls, just peace n quiet, when you use the product, you then straight away think, "oh my god what is this stuff" yes it goes on like butter and comes off like syrup or worse if your not careful, but the depth and durability is insane. Oh yer and its firework resistant, but I wont go there... time for sleep...
Kind Regards
Paul
Miracle said:
Lol you crack me up Kelly.
Have you tried it?
Ive been testing it for over 12 months, its far better than anything else on the market and the claims do stack up. WAC detailing in Thailand a good friend of mine has been using it for over 4 years, with BC06 on his race cars and the other coatings in the range on his clients cars.
Test it and your see!
The Modesta coatings are the thickest coatings on the market and by far the most durable, over the last 12 months Ive been paid a lot of money from my main sponsor to test all glass coatings to extreme and see which ones were the best. On wheels it works far better than any other coating on the market today. I only found the Modesta coatings by chance from contacting all the companies in the world who did glass coatings, Modesta was by far the most impressive and the most expensive.
Anyway, its not a coating I will be selling much of coz its too bl**dy good, a whole day to apply correctly and I wont be seeing my clients for quiet some time either And its not a coating to be applied in a rush either, I do Modesta coatings at night, no phone calls, just peace n quiet, when you use the product, you then straight away think, "oh my god what is this stuff" yes it goes on like butter and comes off like syrup or worse if your not careful, but the depth and durability is insane.
Oh yer and its firework resistant, but I wont go there... time for sleep...
Kind Regards
Paul
Paul I glad I crack you up, it’s the only crack I do Have you tried it?
Ive been testing it for over 12 months, its far better than anything else on the market and the claims do stack up. WAC detailing in Thailand a good friend of mine has been using it for over 4 years, with BC06 on his race cars and the other coatings in the range on his clients cars.
Test it and your see!
The Modesta coatings are the thickest coatings on the market and by far the most durable, over the last 12 months Ive been paid a lot of money from my main sponsor to test all glass coatings to extreme and see which ones were the best. On wheels it works far better than any other coating on the market today. I only found the Modesta coatings by chance from contacting all the companies in the world who did glass coatings, Modesta was by far the most impressive and the most expensive.
Anyway, its not a coating I will be selling much of coz its too bl**dy good, a whole day to apply correctly and I wont be seeing my clients for quiet some time either
And its not a coating to be applied in a rush either, I do Modesta coatings at night, no phone calls, just peace n quiet, when you use the product, you then straight away think, "oh my god what is this stuff" yes it goes on like butter and comes off like syrup or worse if your not careful, but the depth and durability is insane. Oh yer and its firework resistant, but I wont go there... time for sleep...
Kind Regards
Paul
After your sleep
could you please tell me the amount of product used (ml) and the surface area the coating has been applied to and then the total thickness, as then sums will make more sense, IF it’s as good as you say it is then I would guess you apply it in a controlled environment , and the surrounding surfaces (trims,rubbers,) etc will have to be masked off NO ??????
As to your comment above in BOLD, i would rather my customers cars lasted as long as possible which WILL reflect reputation.
Kelly
I am testing / developing German a Lacquer with built in sealent/coating that will be for life span of the paint.
We are adjusting spray and bake temps, and how thick the film build will be for final production version.
This will be applied using a spray booth only and very similar processes to painting a panel or complete car (which will have to be stripped or fully masked up) so will be ONLY available from companys that are very familiar with the body shop trade and wont be any good for detailers really.
This will be the ONLY coating that i will say is Permanent in the same terms as car top coat lacquer is "permanent" can also be added to a car thats had the kds wet sand package and then the removed orange peel lacquer film build built up "higher" thicker with this German lacquer that will lay down flat.
Leaving a flat paint finish with harder wearing coating with coating properties through the entire film build even leaving scope for many machine correction visits if needed.
kelly
We are adjusting spray and bake temps, and how thick the film build will be for final production version.
This will be applied using a spray booth only and very similar processes to painting a panel or complete car (which will have to be stripped or fully masked up) so will be ONLY available from companys that are very familiar with the body shop trade and wont be any good for detailers really.
This will be the ONLY coating that i will say is Permanent in the same terms as car top coat lacquer is "permanent" can also be added to a car thats had the kds wet sand package and then the removed orange peel lacquer film build built up "higher" thicker with this German lacquer that will lay down flat.
Leaving a flat paint finish with harder wearing coating with coating properties through the entire film build even leaving scope for many machine correction visits if needed.
kelly
Gassing Station | Bodywork & Detailing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff