Respray - how often are they 100% first time?
Discussion
Had my car resprayed recently, same colour and minimal additional work aside from paint. To their credit the bodyshop did a fantastic job at the price point, but after I had the car back the paint showed through some marks after a few days.
They took the car back for 10 days no questions asked and put more paint on the problem coverage areas (a few swage lines etc where they had unknowingly gone through the top coat). collected the car again and a few are still showing so it'll have to go back again in the new year.
They've passed the attitude test and have been really accommodating so I know the second visit back will get the last bits, but i'm just wondering from a trade point of view as title, how often does a fully painted car come back for snagging issues generally?
They took the car back for 10 days no questions asked and put more paint on the problem coverage areas (a few swage lines etc where they had unknowingly gone through the top coat). collected the car again and a few are still showing so it'll have to go back again in the new year.
They've passed the attitude test and have been really accommodating so I know the second visit back will get the last bits, but i'm just wondering from a trade point of view as title, how often does a fully painted car come back for snagging issues generally?
There really isn't any excuse for paint not bring perfect or to the standard agreed when it comes out of the shop.
Being devils advocate, and no offence intended, but it sounds like you have paid for a blow over and are disappointed with it not being showroom.
Depending on how much you've paid and how bad it looks I'd imagine the shop won't continue remidial work for very long.
Being devils advocate, and no offence intended, but it sounds like you have paid for a blow over and are disappointed with it not being showroom.
Depending on how much you've paid and how bad it looks I'd imagine the shop won't continue remidial work for very long.
I paid for a full respray ex door shuts, and the car was stripped down to a fair degree (lights out, bumpers, trim, splitters, sideskirts off etc etc).
They've already agreed to take the car back a second time at no cost to me, so that's not really an issue. The price I paid was not showroom level, but it wasn't back alley blowever money either...I'm realistic in my expectations trust me
Worth noting that it was absolutely perfect when i collected it the first time...the rub throughs took about 4-5 days of sitting at ambient temps to show, as the paint settled I guess.
Had a few mates over the years that have had full paint jobs and ended up taking the car back for snagging, just wondered how regular a thing it is from a painters point of view.
They've already agreed to take the car back a second time at no cost to me, so that's not really an issue. The price I paid was not showroom level, but it wasn't back alley blowever money either...I'm realistic in my expectations trust me
Worth noting that it was absolutely perfect when i collected it the first time...the rub throughs took about 4-5 days of sitting at ambient temps to show, as the paint settled I guess.
Had a few mates over the years that have had full paint jobs and ended up taking the car back for snagging, just wondered how regular a thing it is from a painters point of view.
Edited by designforlife on Friday 24th November 10:30
Incomplete coverage over edges and swage lines is basic stuff, I would not call that "snagging".
Taking it back is the right thing to do, accepting it back and correcting the basic errors is a sign of a good attitude. Incomplete coverage and not checking coverage prior to the top coat is the sign of an inexperienced painter/assistant or just not spending enough time to check.
Taking it back is the right thing to do, accepting it back and correcting the basic errors is a sign of a good attitude. Incomplete coverage and not checking coverage prior to the top coat is the sign of an inexperienced painter/assistant or just not spending enough time to check.
Fair does, I'm not a painter so can't really comment on the technicalities.
Slightly at odds as the overall finish is very good, not a sign of any orange peel, runs, overspray or bits in the lacquer or anything...and i've seen and had first hand experience some real horror stories in the past.
Slightly at odds as the overall finish is very good, not a sign of any orange peel, runs, overspray or bits in the lacquer or anything...and i've seen and had first hand experience some real horror stories in the past.
Edited by designforlife on Friday 24th November 10:43
Edited by designforlife on Friday 24th November 10:44
trickywoo said:
There really isn't any excuse for paint not bring perfect or to the standard agreed when it comes out of the shop.
Being devils advocate, and no offence intended, but it sounds like you have paid for a blow over and are disappointed with it not being showroom.
Depending on how much you've paid and how bad it looks I'd imagine the shop won't continue remidial work for very long.
Yeh,because perfection is so easy to achieve lolBeing devils advocate, and no offence intended, but it sounds like you have paid for a blow over and are disappointed with it not being showroom.
Depending on how much you've paid and how bad it looks I'd imagine the shop won't continue remidial work for very long.
Have you seen the poor standard of finish on some brand new vehicles ? If manufacturers can't achieve it why do you think repair shops should be able to ?
Anyway it's all relative ,what 1 person thinks is a good paint job another might find fault with
Edited by V8covin on Saturday 25th November 11:24
steveo3002 said:
its on of those how long is a piece of string questions
£500 job wont look as good as a £5000 job , one guy will be pleased as punch with an average job and the next guy will one of the detialing world guys sniffing around it with a microscope and spot light
Price is not indicative of quality.£500 job wont look as good as a £5000 job , one guy will be pleased as punch with an average job and the next guy will one of the detialing world guys sniffing around it with a microscope and spot light
Plentt of places are reasonable at pricing and high quality.
Plenty of places are very expensive and poor quality.
Depending on the price / deal paid would be my expectation of the quality.
Painters are human, often working in conditions that could be classed anywhere between poor to very good.
These human painters are competing against exacting robots operating in multi million pound sterile factories that are working on a clean sterile shell.
Robots in sterile factories are fully programmed not to make mistakes, never to cause a run or give a coverage that's not a full coat.
Whereas a human in the very best 'big shed' has to personally judge how much might be too much or if there are any areas where there's to little.
Whilst the high cost of a human painter may not define a better quality of job over a lost cost human painter, the only way to achieve quality is to take the time to carefully achieve the best quality finish.
And time is money - and the clock starts ticking as soon as the work starts!
Cleaning the car down properly takes time.
Masking it up properly takes time.
Sanding/prepping properly takes time.
(if needed) any filling of damage properly takes time.
(If needed) any sanding of filler properly takes time.
Cleaning properly again takes time
Priming only takes a small amount time (relatively)
Sanding the primer properly takes time.
Cleaning properly again takes time.
Painting only takes a small amount of time (relativity)
Drying the paint properly takes time.
Cleaning the paint properly takes time.
Lacquering only takes a small amount of time (relativity)
Drying the lacquer properly takes time.
It's only at this stage that any problems a human working in a 'large shed' has caused can then be refined ..... and it takes time.
And then if the refining goes wrong it's back to step one.
With repairs/re-sprays often going under such close scrutiny (the likes of which might only be similarly seen when a damaged 'old master' painting is restored) it's a wonder anybody ever tries to compete with 'factory finish'.
(And yet it is possible for a human to exceed factory finish - for a price!)
These human painters are competing against exacting robots operating in multi million pound sterile factories that are working on a clean sterile shell.
Robots in sterile factories are fully programmed not to make mistakes, never to cause a run or give a coverage that's not a full coat.
Whereas a human in the very best 'big shed' has to personally judge how much might be too much or if there are any areas where there's to little.
Whilst the high cost of a human painter may not define a better quality of job over a lost cost human painter, the only way to achieve quality is to take the time to carefully achieve the best quality finish.
And time is money - and the clock starts ticking as soon as the work starts!
Cleaning the car down properly takes time.
Masking it up properly takes time.
Sanding/prepping properly takes time.
(if needed) any filling of damage properly takes time.
(If needed) any sanding of filler properly takes time.
Cleaning properly again takes time
Priming only takes a small amount time (relatively)
Sanding the primer properly takes time.
Cleaning properly again takes time.
Painting only takes a small amount of time (relativity)
Drying the paint properly takes time.
Cleaning the paint properly takes time.
Lacquering only takes a small amount of time (relativity)
Drying the lacquer properly takes time.
It's only at this stage that any problems a human working in a 'large shed' has caused can then be refined ..... and it takes time.
And then if the refining goes wrong it's back to step one.
With repairs/re-sprays often going under such close scrutiny (the likes of which might only be similarly seen when a damaged 'old master' painting is restored) it's a wonder anybody ever tries to compete with 'factory finish'.
(And yet it is possible for a human to exceed factory finish - for a price!)
V8covin said:
trickywoo said:
There really isn't any excuse for paint not bring perfect or to the standard agreed when it comes out of the shop.
Being devils advocate, and no offence intended, but it sounds like you have paid for a blow over and are disappointed with it not being showroom.
Depending on how much you've paid and how bad it looks I'd imagine the shop won't continue remidial work for very long.
Yeh,because perfection is so easy to achieve lolBeing devils advocate, and no offence intended, but it sounds like you have paid for a blow over and are disappointed with it not being showroom.
Depending on how much you've paid and how bad it looks I'd imagine the shop won't continue remidial work for very long.
Have you seen the poor standard of finish on some brand new vehicles ? If manufacturers can't achieve it why do you think repair shops should be able to ?
Anyway it's all relative ,what 1 person thinks is a good paint job another might find fault with
Edited by V8covin on Saturday 25th November 11:24
trickywoo said:
LOL. Its paint. you can see the result when you hand it back to the customer. Its not like something is hidden or needs running in. Its either to the standard agreed or it insn't. In this case the fact they have taken it back indicates they know its not up to scratch.
Paint shrinks.. If you see a car where you can see sanding marks below the paint, quite often this won't have been visible when it first came out of the booth. Obviously this isn't every case, or even close to. But it does happen. Cracking and bubbling paint again aren't always visible straight away. These can take even longer to appear. As has been said, unless you're a robot in a factory these things can happen from time to time, even as a 'best in the trade' type.
largelunchbox said:
I've been on this planet 56 years so far and still never had any good spray work done,always something poorly done. I despair when I watch the US car reality shows like count customs etc and the paintwork is flawless
1. How can you tell it's flawless from a brief look on telly?2. How much are they charging ? Some of those paint jobs are costing 10's of thousands of dollars.How much are you paying ?
scott15 said:
trickywoo said:
LOL. Its paint. you can see the result when you hand it back to the customer. Its not like something is hidden or needs running in. Its either to the standard agreed or it insn't. In this case the fact they have taken it back indicates they know its not up to scratch.
Paint shrinks.. If you see a car where you can see sanding marks below the paint, quite often this won't have been visible when it first came out of the booth. Obviously this isn't every case, or even close to. But it does happen. Cracking and bubbling paint again aren't always visible straight away. These can take even longer to appear. As has been said, unless you're a robot in a factory these things can happen from time to time, even as a 'best in the trade' type.
thanks for the replies all. As it goes, the remaining marks are not very easy to see indoors at all, i had the car in a brightly lit workshop over the weekend and struggled to point them out to my mechanic.
However in direct sunlight they are small but plainly visible, and i'm far from OCD...I appreciate there are so many factors so it's good to just get an idea of the intricacies involved.
For what it's worth, the finish is really very good overall for the price i paid, barring these few rub throughs...I find it strange that a shop could achieve such a nice finish but the rub throughs seem such a schoolboy error....but it happens i guess.
It'll all get sorted in the new year, and the car looks pretty stunning to the passer by, I'm definitely not one of those nightmare customers who is expecting a concours or brand new car finish!
However in direct sunlight they are small but plainly visible, and i'm far from OCD...I appreciate there are so many factors so it's good to just get an idea of the intricacies involved.
For what it's worth, the finish is really very good overall for the price i paid, barring these few rub throughs...I find it strange that a shop could achieve such a nice finish but the rub throughs seem such a schoolboy error....but it happens i guess.
It'll all get sorted in the new year, and the car looks pretty stunning to the passer by, I'm definitely not one of those nightmare customers who is expecting a concours or brand new car finish!
V8covin said:
largelunchbox said:
I've been on this planet 56 years so far and still never had any good spray work done,always something poorly done. I despair when I watch the US car reality shows like count customs etc and the paintwork is flawless
1. How can you tell it's flawless from a brief look on telly?2. How much are they charging ? Some of those paint jobs are costing 10's of thousands of dollars.How much are you paying ?
2, don't mind paying top dollar but still never had top dollar workmanship.
Maybe I've just been unlucky.
designforlife said:
thanks for the replies all. As it goes, the remaining marks are not very easy to see indoors at all, i had the car in a brightly lit workshop over the weekend and struggled to point them out to my mechanic.
However in direct sunlight they are small but plainly visible, and i'm far from OCD...I appreciate there are so many factors so it's good to just get an idea of the intricacies involved.
For what it's worth, the finish is really very good overall for the price i paid, barring these few rub throughs...I find it strange that a shop could achieve such a nice finish but the rub throughs seem such a schoolboy error....but it happens i guess.
It'll all get sorted in the new year, and the car looks pretty stunning to the passer by, I'm definitely not one of those nightmare customers who is expecting a concours or brand new car finish!
Unless it's a 1 man band you're going to have different people doing different aspects of the job so the person doing the machine polishing may well have polished through on a bodyline and not told anyone....and as you say some defects may show under a particular light source or from a particular angle and not from others.However in direct sunlight they are small but plainly visible, and i'm far from OCD...I appreciate there are so many factors so it's good to just get an idea of the intricacies involved.
For what it's worth, the finish is really very good overall for the price i paid, barring these few rub throughs...I find it strange that a shop could achieve such a nice finish but the rub throughs seem such a schoolboy error....but it happens i guess.
It'll all get sorted in the new year, and the car looks pretty stunning to the passer by, I'm definitely not one of those nightmare customers who is expecting a concours or brand new car finish!
For a respray to be flawless every inch of every panel is going to have to be inspectef from multiple angles both indoors and out and under different light sources....the finish on a sunny day will look different than on a dull day with a pearl/mica paint for example......and that just isn't practical is it,not for a bodyshop which is why some defects only come to light when the vehicle owner happens to spot something afterwards.
Some people seem to think body repairs are easy.......crap body repairs are,top quality body repairs aren't !
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