Painting a car door- blend or full side of car?
Discussion
Advice required please from anyone with paintshop/ bodywork experience.
I've a 1968 Alfa red 105 GT junior and the door has a ding /paint chip plus some cracking in filler around the door lock. I need the full door Painting. The body shop guy who's an experienced painter (but doesn't know my yr alfa) is saying do the whole full side of the car perhaps (not seen my car in flesh as yet)
It's a step front and the wings merge into the front panel and go full width so this is making me think is there a need to do all this or should they be able to paint match just the door?
Car was repainted fully around 5-10yrs ago I think and isn't faded etc.
Cost isn't the issue, removing chrome trim and headlights/side markers can be done if needed, but I was assuming or hoping with modern paint matches that a door could be painted alone perhaps?
Any thoughts appreciated.
I've a 1968 Alfa red 105 GT junior and the door has a ding /paint chip plus some cracking in filler around the door lock. I need the full door Painting. The body shop guy who's an experienced painter (but doesn't know my yr alfa) is saying do the whole full side of the car perhaps (not seen my car in flesh as yet)
It's a step front and the wings merge into the front panel and go full width so this is making me think is there a need to do all this or should they be able to paint match just the door?
Car was repainted fully around 5-10yrs ago I think and isn't faded etc.
Cost isn't the issue, removing chrome trim and headlights/side markers can be done if needed, but I was assuming or hoping with modern paint matches that a door could be painted alone perhaps?
Any thoughts appreciated.
It's purely the fact that on a step front the front valance blends into one with the wings and front panel. There is no lip or edge. I think I need him to see the car perhaps first as he assumed he was painting to a lip there you see.
I'm very happy to let him do whatever gets the best outcome for a match, however he'd not painting old faded Alfa red paint, the entire car was fully repainted in one go.
Perhaps wrongly I assumed modern paint matching techniques might be good enough to
Just do the door, as one panel. Obviously this may not be the case. The rear wings also merge into the rear panels.
Cheers for assistance tho I will be taking it to him for the work, it's just grown and may require more thought is all.
I'm very happy to let him do whatever gets the best outcome for a match, however he'd not painting old faded Alfa red paint, the entire car was fully repainted in one go.
Perhaps wrongly I assumed modern paint matching techniques might be good enough to
Just do the door, as one panel. Obviously this may not be the case. The rear wings also merge into the rear panels.
Cheers for assistance tho I will be taking it to him for the work, it's just grown and may require more thought is all.
steveo3002 said:
was the brand and colour code recorded last time it was painted ?
if he has access to the same paint he might be more willing to try painting just the door instead of thinking he's trying to match up some faded 70s paint job
yes I have the paint code, Le Riche in Jersey painted it previously. if he has access to the same paint he might be more willing to try painting just the door instead of thinking he's trying to match up some faded 70s paint job
A problem that might occur is mixing the paint to the exact recipe that it has previously been resprayed in.
Let's say your car has been resprayed in a colour called 'Bright Red' …. the recipe to produce this colour might include precise amounts of white, blue, black, yellow and of course red.
When they made this recipe they may have put a few drips too much or too little of the lesser tints into the mix.
To our eyes it was still 'Bright Red' - but to now mix that colour accurately maybe impossible because the mix it was resprayed in wasn't 100% accurate to the recipe.
The idea of blending a colour is to lose any difference there might be between the paint already on the car and what is being newly applied by gradually fading it into the adjoining panels - rather than just simply stopping at a panel edge or swage line.
Let's say your car has been resprayed in a colour called 'Bright Red' …. the recipe to produce this colour might include precise amounts of white, blue, black, yellow and of course red.
When they made this recipe they may have put a few drips too much or too little of the lesser tints into the mix.
To our eyes it was still 'Bright Red' - but to now mix that colour accurately maybe impossible because the mix it was resprayed in wasn't 100% accurate to the recipe.
The idea of blending a colour is to lose any difference there might be between the paint already on the car and what is being newly applied by gradually fading it into the adjoining panels - rather than just simply stopping at a panel edge or swage line.
I understand it may not be a simple matching process, I suspect I'll have to let the guy see the actual car first as there will be additional chrome trim, indicators, and headlight bowls to remove then potentially, possibly glass and seals
It's not a concourse show pony by any means. The reason for the repair is a serious crack in filler where the original door handle was welded up for the GTA type push button to be fitted. The door check strap also broke and allowed the door to contact the front wing edge. It's not a fortune to spray the whole side anyway, I was hoping not to disturb the trim and rubbers etc.
Here's the beast in question. The crappy door protector is holding in the cracked filler!
It's not a concourse show pony by any means. The reason for the repair is a serious crack in filler where the original door handle was welded up for the GTA type push button to be fitted. The door check strap also broke and allowed the door to contact the front wing edge. It's not a fortune to spray the whole side anyway, I was hoping not to disturb the trim and rubbers etc.
Here's the beast in question. The crappy door protector is holding in the cracked filler!
200Plus Club said:
yes I have the paint code, Le Riche in Jersey painted it previously.
The paint code is not enough mate.There can be various shades of that particular code AND there are numerous paint manufacturers.
To have any chance of matching edge to edge you will need to know which paint manufacturer the painter used AND which shade of the colour he used.
That's why it's the norm to blend into the surrounding panels
It's also worth noting the paint companies also sometimes alter the mix of a particular shade after a few years.What might have been called standard shade 5 years ago may now be called light shade and therefore standard shade will be a different mix.
It's quite the minefield really.
Your car would benefit from having the side painted given what you've told us
Edited by V8covin on Tuesday 19th March 18:21
V8covin said:
The paint code is not enough mate.
There can be various shades of that particular code AND there are numerous paint manufacturers.
To have any chance of matching edge to edge you will need to know which paint manufacturer the painter used AND which shade of the colour he used.
That's why it's the norm to blend into the surrounding panels
It's also worth noting the paint companies also sometimes alter the mix of a particular shade after a few years.What might have been called standard shade 5 years ago may now be called light shade and therefore standard shade will be a different mix.
It's quite the minefield really.
Your car would benefit from having the side painted given what you've told us
Ok that's fair enough, just wondering how /where they can blend to I suppose. Lots of metal and not many seams you see. Bloomin filler lol! There can be various shades of that particular code AND there are numerous paint manufacturers.
To have any chance of matching edge to edge you will need to know which paint manufacturer the painter used AND which shade of the colour he used.
That's why it's the norm to blend into the surrounding panels
It's also worth noting the paint companies also sometimes alter the mix of a particular shade after a few years.What might have been called standard shade 5 years ago may now be called light shade and therefore standard shade will be a different mix.
It's quite the minefield really.
Your car would benefit from having the side painted given what you've told us
Edited by V8covin on Tuesday 19th March 18:21
alabbasi said:
If looks paint is fresh enough, just do the door, otherwise blend it. It's a solid color and should be matched easily with a code or if they put an analyzer to the body.
That's along the lines I thought originally, not knowing anything about paint I thought computer analyser and away you go lol. The guy I went to is an experienced hand and I think I'll let him look at it in the flesh first. Presently he's seen the above pics only on my phone so it's prob not fair to expect much at the mo
200Plus Club said:
Ok that's fair enough, just wondering how /where they can blend to I suppose. Lots of metal and not many seams you see. Bloomin filler lol!
Blending doesn't stop at a seam, the edge of a panel or anywhere specifically …… please get this idea that blending stops at a 'point' out of your head.If you were to paint something long and flat (say a plank of wood) that started black at one end but gradually went to dark grey, then to a lighter grey, then to light grey (and every shade of grey between) before finally turning to white at the other end ……. without any distinguishable steps between every shade - that's blending.
None of the colours would need or require a line, nor an edge - the plank would be to seamlessly go from black at one end through loads of shades of ever lightening greys before eventually the greys are so light it blends into white - no edges for each colour - just what appears to be a seamless blend from one to the next, to the next, to the next, and so on so that over all the plank goes from black through to white.
And that's what will happen on your car,
The area that needs repairing and painting will be fully coated with the new paint.
Lets say the immediate area takes six coats to get full coverage over the primer.
The outside of that area will need five coats,
The outside of that area will need four coats.
The outside of that area will need three coats - and by now the original paint will now start showing though.
The outside of that area will need two coats - and the original paint will show through slightly more.
The outside of that area will need one coat - by this stage the original paint will be showing more than the new paint.
And the it's just the original paint.
This process (which I've over simplified) doesn't have to stop at an edge, swage line, crease, seam or corner - it just gradually blends into the original and that gradual blend might happen within the panel that's damaged - or it might happen on the adjacent panel(s)
How large an area the blend requires will totally depend upon how good paint match is in the first place.
Edited by Squiggs on Wednesday 20th March 00:10
Squiggs said:
Blending doesn't stop at a seam, the edge of a panel or anywhere specifically …… please get this idea that blending stops at a 'point' out of your head.
If you were to paint something long and flat (say a plank of wood) that started black at one end but gradually went to dark grey, then to a lighter grey, then to light grey (and every shade of grey between) before finally turning to white at the other end ……. without any distinguishable steps between every shade - that's blending.
None of the colours would need or require a line, nor an edge - the plank would be to seamlessly go from black at one end through loads of shades of ever lightening greys before eventually the greys are so light it blends into white - no edges for each colour - just what appears to be a seamless blend from one to the next, to the next, to the next, and so on so that over all the plank goes from black through to white.
And that's what will happen on your car,
The area that needs repairing and painting will be fully coated with the new paint.
Lets say the immediate area takes six coats to get full coverage over the primer.
The outside of that area will need five coats,
The outside of that area will need four coats.
The outside of that area will need three coats - and by now the original paint will now start showing though.
The outside of that area will need two coats - and the original paint will show through slightly more.
The outside of that area will need one coat - by this stage the original paint will be showing more than the new paint.
And the it's just the original paint.
This process (which I've over simplified) doesn't have to stop at an edge, swage line, crease, seam or corner - it just gradually blends into the original and that gradual blend might happen within the panel that's damaged - or it might happen on the adjacent panel(s)
How large an area the blend requires will totally depend upon how good paint match is in the first place.
Thank you for that. I had wrongly thought they might need to go almost full panel you see with him saying both front and rear wings. I've studied a few you tube "blending" vids from paintshop guys since reading the above and can see how they fade it in etc. If you were to paint something long and flat (say a plank of wood) that started black at one end but gradually went to dark grey, then to a lighter grey, then to light grey (and every shade of grey between) before finally turning to white at the other end ……. without any distinguishable steps between every shade - that's blending.
None of the colours would need or require a line, nor an edge - the plank would be to seamlessly go from black at one end through loads of shades of ever lightening greys before eventually the greys are so light it blends into white - no edges for each colour - just what appears to be a seamless blend from one to the next, to the next, to the next, and so on so that over all the plank goes from black through to white.
And that's what will happen on your car,
The area that needs repairing and painting will be fully coated with the new paint.
Lets say the immediate area takes six coats to get full coverage over the primer.
The outside of that area will need five coats,
The outside of that area will need four coats.
The outside of that area will need three coats - and by now the original paint will now start showing though.
The outside of that area will need two coats - and the original paint will show through slightly more.
The outside of that area will need one coat - by this stage the original paint will be showing more than the new paint.
And the it's just the original paint.
This process (which I've over simplified) doesn't have to stop at an edge, swage line, crease, seam or corner - it just gradually blends into the original and that gradual blend might happen within the panel that's damaged - or it might happen on the adjacent panel(s)
How large an area the blend requires will totally depend upon how good paint match is in the first place.
Edited by Squiggs on Wednesday 20th March 00:10
One thing I knew about was lead loading and ideally the filler around the welded in door handle section might be replaced by something metallic and more substantial albeit it more time and cost of course.
Cheers for all the advice and pointers, v helpful.
Squiggs said:
Blending doesn't stop at a seam, the edge of a panel or anywhere specifically …… please get this idea that blending stops at a 'point' out of your head.
If you were to paint something long and flat (say a plank of wood) that started black at one end but gradually went to dark grey, then to a lighter grey, then to light grey (and every shade of grey between) before finally turning to white at the other end ……. without any distinguishable steps between every shade - that's blending.
None of the colours would need or require a line, nor an edge - the plank would be to seamlessly go from black at one end through loads of shades of ever lightening greys before eventually the greys are so light it blends into white - no edges for each colour - just what appears to be a seamless blend from one to the next, to the next, to the next, and so on so that over all the plank goes from black through to white.
And that's what will happen on your car,
The area that needs repairing and painting will be fully coated with the new paint.
Lets say the immediate area takes six coats to get full coverage over the primer.
The outside of that area will need five coats,
The outside of that area will need four coats.
The outside of that area will need three coats - and by now the original paint will now start showing though.
The outside of that area will need two coats - and the original paint will show through slightly more.
The outside of that area will need one coat - by this stage the original paint will be showing more than the new paint.
And the it's just the original paint.
This process (which I've over simplified) doesn't have to stop at an edge, swage line, crease, seam or corner - it just gradually blends into the original and that gradual blend might happen within the panel that's damaged - or it might happen on the adjacent panel(s)
How large an area the blend requires will totally depend upon how good paint match is in the first place.
Except that blending is normally done with basecoat and clear,where you would,for example spray the basecoat halfway along a panel but cleat the whole panel.If you were to paint something long and flat (say a plank of wood) that started black at one end but gradually went to dark grey, then to a lighter grey, then to light grey (and every shade of grey between) before finally turning to white at the other end ……. without any distinguishable steps between every shade - that's blending.
None of the colours would need or require a line, nor an edge - the plank would be to seamlessly go from black at one end through loads of shades of ever lightening greys before eventually the greys are so light it blends into white - no edges for each colour - just what appears to be a seamless blend from one to the next, to the next, to the next, and so on so that over all the plank goes from black through to white.
And that's what will happen on your car,
The area that needs repairing and painting will be fully coated with the new paint.
Lets say the immediate area takes six coats to get full coverage over the primer.
The outside of that area will need five coats,
The outside of that area will need four coats.
The outside of that area will need three coats - and by now the original paint will now start showing though.
The outside of that area will need two coats - and the original paint will show through slightly more.
The outside of that area will need one coat - by this stage the original paint will be showing more than the new paint.
And the it's just the original paint.
This process (which I've over simplified) doesn't have to stop at an edge, swage line, crease, seam or corner - it just gradually blends into the original and that gradual blend might happen within the panel that's damaged - or it might happen on the adjacent panel(s)
How large an area the blend requires will totally depend upon how good paint match is in the first place.
Edited by Squiggs on Wednesday 20th March 00:10
It's much easier to hide blended clear than it is blended topcoat
200Plus Club said:
Advice required please from anyone with paintshop/ bodywork experience.
200Plus Club said:
The body shop guy who's an experienced painter (but doesn't know my yr alfa) is saying do the whole full side of the car perhaps (not seen my car in flesh as yet)
200Plus Club said:
It's a step front and the wings merge into the front panel and go full width so this is making me think is there a need to do all this or should they be able to paint match just the door?
If you have doubts about the painter, don't trust your car to him. V8covin said:
Except that blending is normally done with basecoat and clear,where you would,for example spray the basecoat halfway along a panel but cleat the whole panel.
It's much easier to hide blended clear than it is blended topcoat
It is easier to clear a whole panel, therefore no blending of the clear is required - but it is perfectly possible to blend a clear half way along a panel. It's much easier to hide blended clear than it is blended topcoat
Difficult, granted, but possible.
On a lot of modern cars the quarter panel, the roof rail the wing and whatever the bit that covers the sill is called (so essentially one side of the car minus the doors) is pressed out of one piece of metal …… but that doesn't mean the quarter panel needs to be re-lacquered because the wing was repaired.
In the op's case I would imagine that the colour fade would go onto the adjoining panels - the lacquer fade would be lost on the front and rear corners. (Assuming it needs lacquer and isn't done with a 2k paint)
Glassman said:
If you have doubts about the painter, don't trust your car to him.
As I made clear, he's not seen the car yet just some pics on the phone I showed him when I called in.his advice was to spray the full side of the car for the best result as it was often difficult to match a full door. He's not aware I have access to the paint type and codes from the original painters, however that may be no help anyway. I am interested in advice generally about bodywork in this scenario, it's not my forte that's all. I do understand a bit more now about the why's and wherefores.
One thing in not sure of is this "basecoat" and clearly thing tho? It's straight plain Alfa red I wasn't aware it may have a clear finish on top?
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