Spraying bumpers - water based?

[TROOPER88]

Hi Chaps
Circa 10 years ago I sprayed a couple of restoration projects using 2k paint.
At the time there was a lot of debate as I know the isocyanates contained in the 2k are highly dangerous.

I recall buying the paint, the hardener and the thinners and mixing as per the recommendations on the tin. I was spraying solid colour so no lacquer/clear coat was used.

I produced good results that after colour sanding and polishing gave me an excellent finish.

Now I understand that paints and health and safety have moved on.

So, I want to spray the bumpers of my car. What do I need to buy?

I have the compressor, gun etc.

Is all paint available now water based?

I take it that I need the colour, hardener and thinners and the clear coat?

Is there still the need for the air mask setup or not due to the water based nature

Any advice is much appreciated

Cheers

[V8covin]

If you're spraying a solid colour nothing has changed,it will still be 2k.
The only thing that's really changed is the basecoat,it used to be solvent now it's waterbased ...... although both are widely available.
Stick to solvent would be my advice for a diyer

[TROOPER88]

V8covin said:

If you're spraying a solid colour nothing has changed,it will still be 2k.
The only thing that's really changed is the basecoat,it used to be solvent now it's waterbased ...... although both are widely available.
Stick to solvent would be my advice for a diyer

Thanks, I should have been clearer.

Although I have sprayed solid in the past, I will now be spraying a Porsche Boxster bumpers so would assume this would be base and clear? (Zenith Blue)

What would your recommendations be?

Thanks

[V8covin]

Solvent basecoat and 2k clear

[TROOPER88]

V8covin said:

Solvent basecoat and 2k clear

Cheers

Not a fan of the water based stuff at all then?

[V8covin]

TROOPER88 said:

Cheers

Not a fan of the water based stuff at all then?

Not for home use no

[TROOPER88]

Ok, on the weekend I would like to spray the front bumper.

I will order everything that I think I need but some advice would be great. I plan on ordering:

- Sandpaper (400/800 for prep and 2000 for wet sanding)
- Filler for any damage
- Tack cloths
- Panel wipe
- 2k paint
- Hardener
- Thinners
- Lacquer
- Mixing cups

I already have a spray mask.

Given that I want to spray a bumper but have enough products left to spray the rear bumper in time, how much paint, hardener, thinners and lacquer would be required?

Anything I am missing from my list?

Many thanks

[paintman]

Zenith Blue is a metallic.

You will be spraying the colour base coat followed by 2 coats of 2k clear.

Depending where you get the base coat ('the colour coat') from you can get it as either solvent base or water base. You will need appropriate thinner.

You will need to get the Technical Data Sheets from your supplier for the paint you are using and that will tell you exactly what prep incl grades of abrasives you need to use plus gun fluid tip size, pressure, thinning, coats, flash off times, recoating times etc. Do not try & guess & think you can do without them.

If you choose to use a 2k clearcoat it won't be waterbased. You will need the clear, its hardener - which usually come as a deal, you get a tin of clear & an appropriately sized tin of hardener - and a suitable 2k thinner.
Again you will need to get & follow the TDS.

Decide where you want to buy your paints from & be guided by their advice. I would suggest a local motor factor as opposed to online.

You do not sand the base coat before applying the clear. If you need to sand to remove problems - such as runs & sags in the base coats - you will need to apply sufficient base coat to cover the reworked area so the whole surface is uniform.

If you get a run in your clear DO NOT be tempted to mess about with it. Allow for the appropriate flash-off time & apply the second coat. Sanding out runs, nibs etc in the clear is done very carefully after it has hardened - & that's where your 2000 grit comes into play. DON'T break through the clear or you get to do it again. Polish to restore the shine.

Factors will usually mix the base coat from 1/4 litre. Safer to have more rather then 'Oh st, I've not got quite enough' esp if you expect to do further paintwork on the car.
I buy the clear as 5 litres clear/2.5litre hardener. Currently using Mipa.
2k thinner for solvent primer, solvent basecoat & 2k clear I buy in 5 litre tins.
'Standard thinner' which I use as gunwash in 25 litre drums. The thinner itself is cheap as chips, it's the tin thats expensive!

Edited by paintman on Monday 13th May 18:49

[TROOPER88]

paintman said:

Zenith Blue is a metallic.

You will be spraying the colour base coat followed by 2 coats of 2k clear.

Depending where you get the base coat ('the colour coat') from you can get it as either solvent base or water base. You will need appropriate thinner.

You will need to get the Technical Data Sheets from your supplier for the paint you are using and that will tell you exactly what prep incl grades of abrasives you need to use plus gun fluid tip size, pressure, thinning, coats, flash off times, recoating times etc. Do not try & guess & think you can do without them.

If you choose to use a 2k clearcoat it won't be waterbased. You will need the clear, its hardener - which usually come as a deal, you get a tin of clear & an appropriately sized tin of hardener - and a suitable 2k thinner.
Again you will need to get & follow the TDS.

Decide where you want to buy your paints from & be guided by their advice. I would suggest a local motor factor as opposed to online.

You do not sand the base coat before applying the clear. If you need to sand to remove problems - such as runs & sags in the base coats - you will need to apply sufficient base coat to cover the reworked area so the whole surface is uniform.

If you get a run in your clear DO NOT be tempted to mess about with it. Allow for the appropriate flash-off time & apply the second coat. Sanding out runs, nibs etc is done very carefully after it has hardened.

Factors will usually mix the base coat from 1/4 litre. Safer to have more rather then 'Oh st, I've not got quite enough' esp if you expect to do further paintwork on the car.
I buy the clear as 5 litres clear/2.5litre hardener.
2k thinner for solvent primer, solvent basecoat & 2k clear I buy in 5 litre tins.
'Standard thinner' which I use as gunwash in 25 litre drums. The thinner itself is cheap as chips, it's the tin thats expensive!

Fabulous reply, thank you.

Ok, after posting earlier, I found an online paint supplier with an ebay shop.

This is what I have ordered:

1 Litre 2k basecoat (supplied VIN and colour code)
1 Litre fast thinners
Lacquer kit: 1 Litre clear coat (ratio: 2-1), 500ml hardener and 1 litre of thinners.

They did the above as a 'deal'.


mixing cups, masking tape, gloves, 3m mask and cartridges, tack cloths, panel wipe, gloves,

All sound about right?

Cheers

[V8covin]

What are you prepping with ? DA sander or by hand ?
You will need suitable discs or paper to feather the existing paint usually 180 or 240grit.
If you're using bodyfiller I'd suggest 120 grit,80 grit are too course for plastic.

[TROOPER88]

V8covin said:

What are you prepping with ? DA sander or by hand ?
You will need suitable discs or paper to feather the existing paint usually 180 or 240grit.
If you're using bodyfiller I'd suggest 120 grit,80 grit are too course for plastic.

I will be doing it by hand.

Tbh we are not talking about major damage, just your usual bumper scars and scuffs.

I think it will be easier to leave the bumper on the car but can remove if necessary.

[paintman]

Before you start sanding spray out a couple of test cards & compare them to the car to be sure the colour matches.

[TROOPER88]

paintman said:

Before you start sanding spray out a couple of test cards & compare them to the car to be sure the colour matches.

Good idea.

Thanks for all the advice

I’ll post pics when I do the job

[ndtman]

Anyone used or have an opinion on 2K NON-Isocyanate paint/lacquer as supplied by Jawel?

[TROOPER88]

paintman said:

Before you start sanding spray out a couple of test cards & compare them to the car to be sure the colour matches.

I should have paid more attention to this post!

On Friday I spent the morning doing the bumper.

All went well, removed, sanded, filled any imperfections before giving it 3 coats of base and 2 coats of lacquer.

I have heavy orange peel which is annoying but I can easily wet sand and polish to a great finish.

The big problem is the colour match is very, very poor.

Tomorrow I plan on calling at a local car paint factors and showing them and will aim to buy more paint in a better match. I will then have to remove the bumper, 800 sand and then try again.

How can I get it closer??

The code is Porsche 3AX Zenith Blue.

How could it be so out? Different shades of Zenith, poor mixing when being made??

I do not mind if the match is not 100%. the car is over 20 years old and the rest of the car will have no doubt been affected by the sun etc but this is way off.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

[TROOPER88]

This is obviously before the removal of orange peel and polishing.

I did try this on a small area but it won’t improve things with the colour match being this far out

[V8covin]

So you bought your basecoat off ebay when you were advised to go to a factors.Rookie mistake.

I've looked at Lechler and they only show 1 shade.....there might be other shades with different paint schemes.
A different scheme may match better or have more shades to choose from.

As a minimum you should be comparing the colour of your car....the adjacent panels to the ones you're painting because your car could be multiple shades that have been blended in previously......to the colour chips the factors have.If you can't find a close enough match the next stop would be to have it analyzed with a spectrometer (camera) if they have one.That may bring a better match but not necessarily,they only compare to a database after all.
If you're still struggling you either need to find a factor with the ability to tint by eye or blend into the adjacent panels.......but the colour you have is too far off to blend invisibly in my opinion

[TROOPER88]

V8covin said:

So you bought your basecoat off ebay when you were advised to go to a factors.Rookie mistake.

I've looked at Lechler and they only show 1 shade.....there might be other shades with different paint schemes.
A different scheme may match better or have more shades to choose from.

As a minimum you should be comparing the colour of your car....the adjacent panels to the ones you're painting because your car could be multiple shades that have been blended in previously......to the colour chips the factors have.If you can't find a close enough match the next stop would be to have it analyzed with a spectrometer (camera) if they have one.That may bring a better match but not necessarily,they only compare to a database after all.
If you're still struggling you either need to find a factor with the ability to tint by eye or blend into the adjacent panels.......but the colour you have is too far off to blend invisibly in my opinion

I hold my hands up.

I needed all of the materials; tack cloths, panel wiper, sand paper etc so it was easier to make one order on line.

I have emailed the seller as they did mention 3 variants so I want to know exactly what they mixed as not to have the same mixed moving forward.

The stuff I have is Autocolor if that makes any sense.

There is a company in Chessington called Metalflake and going from their website they do look a pro setup so hopefully they will help me to buy the closest match available.

Thanks

[paintman]

I also only have one formulation in Nexa Aquabase+.
If your paint supplier is in the same position with whichever paint system they use then what you have been sent would be to that formulation.
Doesn't take into account any shades & if the car has ever had a respray then all bets are off & there is only one answer - leaving out a full respray!

Take the car to a local motor factor & get them to mix the paint as an exact eye-match - they'll need a piece of the car to do it, often the fuel filler flap but bigger bits may be necessary if it's a difficult colour. I recall one such in the factors I worked in in the 70's where the mixer ended up having the bonnet brought in before he got it right & was happy to send the paint out.
I have a lot of this done for caravan body work & as I'm working in the middle of panels it HAS to be as near perfect as possible. Costs me around £75 for 1/2 a litre in Lesonal SB basecoat.(Sayers of Northampton).

They could probably scan it with a spectrophotometer but that might not give a good match.

[TROOPER88]

paintman said:

I also only have one formulation in Nexa Aquabase+.
If your paint supplier is in the same position with whichever paint system they use then what you have been sent would be to that formulation.
Doesn't take into account any shades & if the car has ever had a respray then all bets are off & there is only one answer - leaving out a full respray!

Take the car to a local motor factor & get them to mix the paint as an exact eye-match - they'll need a piece of the car to do it, often the fuel filler flap but bigger bits may be necessary if it's a difficult colour. I recall one such in the factors I worked in in the 70's where the mixer ended up having the bonnet brought in before he got it right & was happy to send the paint out.
I have a lot of this done for caravan body work & as I'm working in the middle of panels it HAS to be as near perfect as possible. Costs me around £75 for 1/2 a litre in Lesonal SB basecoat.(Sayers of Northampton).

They could probably scan it with a spectrophotometer but that might not give a good match.

So helpful as usual, thank you so much.

I will do just this; remove the fuel filler cap and drive the car there 8:30 in the morning.

I just want the closest match possible.

Thank you