Ceramic coat or stick to wax?
Discussion
Mods: please don’t move this to cleaning/detailing - I’d like “real life” consumer advice, not that of hardcore two-bucket method and rinse with deionised water types.
Next week I’ve got my new (to me) “brilliant blue” Merc SL400 being professionally washed, clay barred, machine polished etc. I’m having this done so I’ve got a “clean slate” for keeping clean and shiny in the future; being dark blue I simply dare not clay barred it myself and there are nine years worth of swirls etc to sort out.
One of the services offered (or I could do this myself immediately after) is ceramic coating.
I’ve watched loads of videos about ceramic coating and I’m still in two minds about it; I’m the sort of person who waxes my cars two or three times a year, so is ceramic coating going to be better than this or give a better shine, or in fact be easier to wash? I don’t really buy the BS about scratch and stone chip resistance from an infinitesimal coat of silicon dioxide.
Any experiences people want to share or real life comparisons.
Next week I’ve got my new (to me) “brilliant blue” Merc SL400 being professionally washed, clay barred, machine polished etc. I’m having this done so I’ve got a “clean slate” for keeping clean and shiny in the future; being dark blue I simply dare not clay barred it myself and there are nine years worth of swirls etc to sort out.
One of the services offered (or I could do this myself immediately after) is ceramic coating.
I’ve watched loads of videos about ceramic coating and I’m still in two minds about it; I’m the sort of person who waxes my cars two or three times a year, so is ceramic coating going to be better than this or give a better shine, or in fact be easier to wash? I don’t really buy the BS about scratch and stone chip resistance from an infinitesimal coat of silicon dioxide.
Any experiences people want to share or real life comparisons.
Hey OP, if you've gone through all the effort of paint correction and really want to keep it looking swirl free for as long as possible and protecting it, I'm going to have to suggest PPF.
I got PPF done to my Cayman straight after delivery and have not regretted it.
Yeah, ceramic coat is good for low risk areas like the roof but I'd look at PPF for bonnet, doors wings and rear.
T1b
I got PPF done to my Cayman straight after delivery and have not regretted it.
Yeah, ceramic coat is good for low risk areas like the roof but I'd look at PPF for bonnet, doors wings and rear.
T1b
I also don't buy into the magical properties of ceramic coatings. Regardless of what you put on, if the car is in daily use it will pick up swirls.
Also, for some people (me in the past included) there is satisfaction of cleaning and polishing the car. On that basis I'd get it looking good as new then stay on top of it with your favourite wax/polish
Also, for some people (me in the past included) there is satisfaction of cleaning and polishing the car. On that basis I'd get it looking good as new then stay on top of it with your favourite wax/polish
Comes down to whether you think it's value for money IMO which can be anything from your own personal sense of what value for money is through to the value of the car and how long you intend to keep it and how much time and effort you want to put into looking after it.
The laws of physics still apply in that it won't stop stone chips and it'll still need maintenance but perhaps a bit less maintenance.
Personally if you're going to the expense of having a car professionally detailed I wouldn't call a 2 bucket wash "hardcore" I'd call it "why wouldn't you for what a bucket costs".
The laws of physics still apply in that it won't stop stone chips and it'll still need maintenance but perhaps a bit less maintenance.
Personally if you're going to the expense of having a car professionally detailed I wouldn't call a 2 bucket wash "hardcore" I'd call it "why wouldn't you for what a bucket costs".
butchstewie said:
Personally if you're going to the expense of having a car professionally detailed I wouldn't call a 2 bucket wash "hardcore" I'd call it "why wouldn't you for what a bucket costs".
I’m not saying the two bucket method is bad - I do it myself - I was just making the point that I’d like more “normal” layman’s experiences with it, rather than those of someone who cleans their radiator grille with cotton buds type of thing IYSWIM. With regard to ppf - perhaps a step too far.
Having previously used good quality waxes over the years, I decided to get a good quality ceramic coat on my brand new car. I haven’t regretted it. The car is swirl and scratch free and is so much easier to clean with it. Gives it such a good shine too and water beads effortlessly off it.
I spent a great deal of time researching different ceramic coats and in the end settled on a Gtechniq 9 year coating from a very well known detailing company. It wasn’t cheap at £1300 bit I haven’t regretted it.
I did contemplate PPF but it was going to costs £1000’s just for the front alone which isn’t worth it imho.
I spent a great deal of time researching different ceramic coats and in the end settled on a Gtechniq 9 year coating from a very well known detailing company. It wasn’t cheap at £1300 bit I haven’t regretted it.
I did contemplate PPF but it was going to costs £1000’s just for the front alone which isn’t worth it imho.
Dog Star said:
I m not saying the two bucket method is bad - I do it myself - I was just making the point that I d like more normal layman s experiences with it, rather than those of someone who cleans their radiator grille with cotton buds type of thing IYSWIM.
With regard to ppf - perhaps a step too far.
That's fair With regard to ppf - perhaps a step too far.
I think some of it depends on the price delta. I'm having my own car detailed in a couple of weeks and (for now) am having it single stage polished but likely a 12 month "Gyeon Can Coat" type sealant applied as for me for a daily driver I'm not sure I can justify the leap to a full on ceramic coating.
You'll know from shopping around costs vary massively and that delta might be worth it for you.
I tend to think if you look after your cars diminishing returns probably applies the more you spend.
I was issued a brand new tractor unit 22 months ago, following recommendation of a chap on another forum who lives in a hot country, from the start i gave it a coat of el cheapo Car Plan No1 Supergloss ceramic stuff, have since re-applied the coating about 3 times, so call it twice a year, takes about 20 minutes, haven't used a whole £10 bottle yet.
It gets washed on average 3 times a week, sometimes more often, with industrial quality TFR applied via our steam cleaner set up at work with brush agitation probably needed only once a week because dirt doesn't stick as badly, the vehicle currently reads 250,000kms.
Every now and again i visit a pro truck wash that uses a full height mobile rotating brush that does the front and sides (tanker trailer at the same time), even that hasn't put lines in it.
The paintwork is swirl free and in noticeably better condition than others of similar timeframe and mileage.
The thing about the Car Plan stuff is its as easy to apply as polishing a table top with Mr Sheen, just as well given my ham fisted amateur method, spray on and spread it then polish to a shine with another cloth, you could build several lights coats up in an hour or so.
Wax wouldn't stay on long given the frequency of the washing regime and the harsh chemicals involved, i doubt many cars see such harsh treatment.
It gets washed on average 3 times a week, sometimes more often, with industrial quality TFR applied via our steam cleaner set up at work with brush agitation probably needed only once a week because dirt doesn't stick as badly, the vehicle currently reads 250,000kms.
Every now and again i visit a pro truck wash that uses a full height mobile rotating brush that does the front and sides (tanker trailer at the same time), even that hasn't put lines in it.
The paintwork is swirl free and in noticeably better condition than others of similar timeframe and mileage.
The thing about the Car Plan stuff is its as easy to apply as polishing a table top with Mr Sheen, just as well given my ham fisted amateur method, spray on and spread it then polish to a shine with another cloth, you could build several lights coats up in an hour or so.
Wax wouldn't stay on long given the frequency of the washing regime and the harsh chemicals involved, i doubt many cars see such harsh treatment.
On brand new cars I’ve usually not gone for Ceramic although they also live in garages so any Ceramic coating plays the part of making the car then much easier and quicker to wash.
Completely different to PPF which is more about protection from stone chips although there is a Sod’s law that most chips then occur about 1 cm from where the PPF stops so you either have to do the entire car or only the really vulnerable bits.
I don’t really buy into the PPF thing.
Ceramic will also seal in any imperfections in the paintwork so easier on a brand new car but not infallible.
That said my new Dark Horse Mustang lives outside so I had that professionally detailed and ceramic coated.
I also did get my R8 done when new and as with the Mustang both are long termers which is another factor.
For balance ( and total inconsistency) when I got my GT8 I “ only “ had it waxed with ppf on the very vulnerable front splitters and rear of the “ exposed cut away “ front wheel arches.
That is coming up 9 years old and still looks like new but only does a limited mileage as does the R8.
Completely different to PPF which is more about protection from stone chips although there is a Sod’s law that most chips then occur about 1 cm from where the PPF stops so you either have to do the entire car or only the really vulnerable bits.
I don’t really buy into the PPF thing.
Ceramic will also seal in any imperfections in the paintwork so easier on a brand new car but not infallible.
That said my new Dark Horse Mustang lives outside so I had that professionally detailed and ceramic coated.
I also did get my R8 done when new and as with the Mustang both are long termers which is another factor.
For balance ( and total inconsistency) when I got my GT8 I “ only “ had it waxed with ppf on the very vulnerable front splitters and rear of the “ exposed cut away “ front wheel arches.
That is coming up 9 years old and still looks like new but only does a limited mileage as does the R8.
Been using ceramics for about 15 years, I do recommend them yes. Main benefit is keeping hazing and light swirling to a minimum over the course of say 1-2 years when its time for clay and polish again, they are easy enough to machine polish off using a light finishing polish and re apply depending on the product, so dont have to worry about heavy compounds if the car is kept long term.
They have to be washed properly using a shampoo that doesnt lay down any wax (and my preference is no ceramic top up either) and contains minimal gloss enhances else it clogs up the ceramic layer and it wont repel water as well. These would be dodojuice born to be mild (my preference for the last 15 years) or gtechniq gwash. I always add in gyeon restart too as that'll bring back water repellent behavior properly during a wash.
Id recommend you top up with a sacrificial layer post wash and dry. If you were to use a gyeon product (can coat or mohs are my two preferences) then id recommend gyeon ceramic coat which is a detailing spray with added ceramic stuff in it, good way to wipe down post wash and remove anything you missed. Doesn't impact the water repellent behavior of the underlying coating. Cant vouch for other products, once i find a product that works well I keep to it, but ive used various gtechniq and cquartz products over the years. Gyeon is my favorite.
Proper, regular, careful washing and drying needed, drying towels (and a microfibre when applying something like Gyeon ceramic detailing spray) inflict the most damage during washing so I keep them in a big clip lock box and wash them with no detergent every time I use them, 1400 spin in the washer and back in the box without letting them dry. Separate towel for the wheels. Blow dryer would be better But depends on your budget and how much you care about your neighbours thinking youre a complete bell end.
I miss waxing especially with something nice like Zymol, but but prefer the benefits of a ceramic coating. Especially during winter months when daylight is at a premium or a car has to wait a month for a wash.
They have to be washed properly using a shampoo that doesnt lay down any wax (and my preference is no ceramic top up either) and contains minimal gloss enhances else it clogs up the ceramic layer and it wont repel water as well. These would be dodojuice born to be mild (my preference for the last 15 years) or gtechniq gwash. I always add in gyeon restart too as that'll bring back water repellent behavior properly during a wash.
Id recommend you top up with a sacrificial layer post wash and dry. If you were to use a gyeon product (can coat or mohs are my two preferences) then id recommend gyeon ceramic coat which is a detailing spray with added ceramic stuff in it, good way to wipe down post wash and remove anything you missed. Doesn't impact the water repellent behavior of the underlying coating. Cant vouch for other products, once i find a product that works well I keep to it, but ive used various gtechniq and cquartz products over the years. Gyeon is my favorite.
Proper, regular, careful washing and drying needed, drying towels (and a microfibre when applying something like Gyeon ceramic detailing spray) inflict the most damage during washing so I keep them in a big clip lock box and wash them with no detergent every time I use them, 1400 spin in the washer and back in the box without letting them dry. Separate towel for the wheels. Blow dryer would be better But depends on your budget and how much you care about your neighbours thinking youre a complete bell end.
I miss waxing especially with something nice like Zymol, but but prefer the benefits of a ceramic coating. Especially during winter months when daylight is at a premium or a car has to wait a month for a wash.
Smint said:
I was issued a brand new tractor unit 22 months ago, following recommendation of a chap on another forum who lives in a hot country, from the start i gave it a coat of el cheapo Car Plan No1 Supergloss ceramic stuff, have since re-applied the coating about 3 times, so call it twice a year, takes about 20 minutes, haven't used a whole £10 bottle yet.
It gets washed on average 3 times a week, sometimes more often, with industrial quality TFR applied via our steam cleaner set up at work with brush agitation probably needed only once a week because dirt doesn't stick as badly, the vehicle currently reads 250,000kms.
Every now and again i visit a pro truck wash that uses a full height mobile rotating brush that does the front and sides (tanker trailer at the same time), even that hasn't put lines in it.
The paintwork is swirl free and in noticeably better condition than others of similar timeframe and mileage.
The thing about the Car Plan stuff is its as easy to apply as polishing a table top with Mr Sheen, just as well given my ham fisted amateur method, spray on and spread it then polish to a shine with another cloth, you could build several lights coats up in an hour or so.
Wax wouldn't stay on long given the frequency of the washing regime and the harsh chemicals involved, i doubt many cars see such harsh treatment.
That's very helpful. I'll check it out for my dailies. It gets washed on average 3 times a week, sometimes more often, with industrial quality TFR applied via our steam cleaner set up at work with brush agitation probably needed only once a week because dirt doesn't stick as badly, the vehicle currently reads 250,000kms.
Every now and again i visit a pro truck wash that uses a full height mobile rotating brush that does the front and sides (tanker trailer at the same time), even that hasn't put lines in it.
The paintwork is swirl free and in noticeably better condition than others of similar timeframe and mileage.
The thing about the Car Plan stuff is its as easy to apply as polishing a table top with Mr Sheen, just as well given my ham fisted amateur method, spray on and spread it then polish to a shine with another cloth, you could build several lights coats up in an hour or so.
Wax wouldn't stay on long given the frequency of the washing regime and the harsh chemicals involved, i doubt many cars see such harsh treatment.
From trade experience and contact with a good valeter, it seems that these treatments are buying time. If you are a conscientious owner, the dearer ones could be superfluous . Stuff like Gardex is of some use if correctly applied as a shield against bird droppings and sap, but clearly it wears away over time but can easily be topped up . To avoid further waffle, I would conclude that it is of SOME use. Nothing will project against brambles if you use country lanes regularly.
Edited by Lester H on Sunday 15th March 15:06
I am a fan of quality wax, however it does virtually nothing for protection. The depth of shine is always going to be better with a wax IMO.
But of late I have been using turtle wax ceramic spray and I will say its been pretty good. It lasts 6 months before you start to see any drop in performance.
So for me I apply it in March and October. I still wax my Ferrari - I think it looks better and as I do a handful of miles a year it really does not matter. But my road car gets ceramic now.
And yes, I am a 0ppm water filter type sorry....
So my hot take is if its a weekend car / garaged and only brought out in the sun then wax. If its going to get any sort of daily use - ceramic.
But of late I have been using turtle wax ceramic spray and I will say its been pretty good. It lasts 6 months before you start to see any drop in performance.
So for me I apply it in March and October. I still wax my Ferrari - I think it looks better and as I do a handful of miles a year it really does not matter. But my road car gets ceramic now.
And yes, I am a 0ppm water filter type sorry....
So my hot take is if its a weekend car / garaged and only brought out in the sun then wax. If its going to get any sort of daily use - ceramic.
From a layman's perspective I like the way Bilt Hamber speed wax adds a depth to the gloss. That old school wet look.
Ceramic coatings don't seem to be able to do that as well. But they do last longer and are a little bit quicker to apply.
I like Bilt Hamber and Gyeon stuff.
Just about to try some Griots stuff that won one of Project Farms review's hands down recently. Even with paying an import premium it's still less than half the price of mid range Gyeon coating.
Ceramic coatings don't seem to be able to do that as well. But they do last longer and are a little bit quicker to apply.
I like Bilt Hamber and Gyeon stuff.
Just about to try some Griots stuff that won one of Project Farms review's hands down recently. Even with paying an import premium it's still less than half the price of mid range Gyeon coating.
I work in the funeral industry, so plenty of car washing on black cars!
Jaguar fleet, based on X351 done in Mason's black. Ceramic coated every two years after a full professional exterior detail.
The cars can be washed up to 3 times a day. Some swirling becomes apparent after about 9 months. We use Poor Boys Black Hole at least weekly.
SD.
Jaguar fleet, based on X351 done in Mason's black. Ceramic coated every two years after a full professional exterior detail.
The cars can be washed up to 3 times a day. Some swirling becomes apparent after about 9 months. We use Poor Boys Black Hole at least weekly.
SD.
gotoPzero said:
I am a fan of quality wax, however it does virtually nothing for protection. The depth of shine is always going to be better with a wax IMO.
But of late I have been using turtle wax ceramic spray and I will say its been pretty good. It lasts 6 months before you start to see any drop in performance.
So for me I apply it in March and October. I still wax my Ferrari - I think it looks better and as I do a handful of miles a year it really does not matter. But my road car gets ceramic now.
And yes, I am a 0ppm water filter type sorry....
So my hot take is if its a weekend car / garaged and only brought out in the sun then wax. If its going to get any sort of daily use - ceramic.
Thankyou - this post I think reflects both my own circumstances and usage pattern and also addresses another question as to “depth of shine”; my SL isnt my daily driver, its for holidays and weekends and will do 2-3k a year, the rest of the time being in the garage under a dust cover. It’ll get waxed maybe three times a year. But of late I have been using turtle wax ceramic spray and I will say its been pretty good. It lasts 6 months before you start to see any drop in performance.
So for me I apply it in March and October. I still wax my Ferrari - I think it looks better and as I do a handful of miles a year it really does not matter. But my road car gets ceramic now.
And yes, I am a 0ppm water filter type sorry....
So my hot take is if its a weekend car / garaged and only brought out in the sun then wax. If its going to get any sort of daily use - ceramic.
Shine is key.
I think therefore I will stick to getting the correction and machine polish and take it from there.
If you have time and patience then its well worth getting your own polisher.
Yes its a cost, but even a decent polisher will cost less than a full pc detail.
There is a little technique - but its mostly time and using the right products. Yes rotary polishers are harder, but a good DA machine is easy to use.
Back in the old days you could easily damage paint but I am quite confident these days with modern products. You just have to have a good routine and lots of time. If you can spend 2 full weekends on a car, taking your time, you can get incredible results.
If you value that time doing other things then sure get someone to do it.
When I was really busy with work I would sometimes pay someone to come and do it. Other times I would just do 1 panel each night after work. Took a week but got there in the end.
Yes its a cost, but even a decent polisher will cost less than a full pc detail.
There is a little technique - but its mostly time and using the right products. Yes rotary polishers are harder, but a good DA machine is easy to use.
Back in the old days you could easily damage paint but I am quite confident these days with modern products. You just have to have a good routine and lots of time. If you can spend 2 full weekends on a car, taking your time, you can get incredible results.
If you value that time doing other things then sure get someone to do it.
When I was really busy with work I would sometimes pay someone to come and do it. Other times I would just do 1 panel each night after work. Took a week but got there in the end.
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