My Royale'd XKR
Discussion
Thanks for the advice on detailer Jason of Connoisseur Car Valet (www.connoisseurcarvalet.co.uk); see below for the results. Very happy. Dull glaze has gone, and all scratches and the very many swirls have gone.
Here you go then lads. A few ton well spent. If only dust didn’t exist, it could stay like that!
No more swirls!!
No swirls again.
Here you go then lads. A few ton well spent. If only dust didn’t exist, it could stay like that!
No more swirls!!
No swirls again.
Edited by kryten22uk on Monday 10th September 20:47
Connoisseur said:
Shine-On said:
PJ S said:
Very nice.
Just make sure to wax regularly - as in once a month minimum, depending on where the car is parked and if garaged overnight.
If its been Royale'd, you don't need to be adding wax once a month, it will last a long time.Just make sure to wax regularly - as in once a month minimum, depending on where the car is parked and if garaged overnight.
Seems you
Do you think if Andrex made bog rolls costing £500, they too would last longer?
Don't get me wrong, I'm sure Zymöl make good products, but I don't think they have yet learnt the art of defying time.
In fact the cheap shampoo they make for Halfords is actually pretty decent, but it's not outstanding.
Edited by PJ S on Tuesday 11th September 19:29
Not sure about that.
I've used loads of different waxes Dodo, Poorboys, Zymol, Victoria, Swiss etc and tbh the higher end Zymols I've used tend to bead better than the other ones and the finish seems to last longer.
Just my opinion for what it's worth, maybe some of the other higher end waxes do as well.
Also I think that the better your paintwork is, the better the overall finish and durability.
I've used loads of different waxes Dodo, Poorboys, Zymol, Victoria, Swiss etc and tbh the higher end Zymols I've used tend to bead better than the other ones and the finish seems to last longer.
Just my opinion for what it's worth, maybe some of the other higher end waxes do as well.
Also I think that the better your paintwork is, the better the overall finish and durability.
Edited by Chessers on Wednesday 12th September 08:46
I'm certainly not ignoring your opinion - I haven't read your other threads.
However, you do not get your car treated with Royale to then have to top it up every month. A high quality wax such as that will last considerably longer than 4 weeks. I'm not interested in getting into the benefits/marketing rip off discussion that goes hand in hand with Zymol, just stating a fact. And even if you did - what would you suggest using? Now he has paid some extortionate amount of money for a Royale detail, doesn't really seem great to start going over it with something cheap now does it?
You can only build wax layers so far - After 2/3 layers, the solvents that make it possible to apply the wax easily will have the effect of removing some of what is already on there - in effect, doing it too often means you are just removing as much as you are adding. So again, it would mean spending a large premium on Royale rather pointless.
However, you do not get your car treated with Royale to then have to top it up every month. A high quality wax such as that will last considerably longer than 4 weeks. I'm not interested in getting into the benefits/marketing rip off discussion that goes hand in hand with Zymol, just stating a fact. And even if you did - what would you suggest using? Now he has paid some extortionate amount of money for a Royale detail, doesn't really seem great to start going over it with something cheap now does it?
You can only build wax layers so far - After 2/3 layers, the solvents that make it possible to apply the wax easily will have the effect of removing some of what is already on there - in effect, doing it too often means you are just removing as much as you are adding. So again, it would mean spending a large premium on Royale rather pointless.
But your basing you supposition on the fact there's wax left on the bodywork to be removed.
I'm not interested in marketing spin either, and have no intention of starting a pissing contest or the like, but I do find it incredible how some people over look the glaringly obvious when it comes to high end products.
I'll nail my flag to the mast, and say there's no way in any shape or form that Royale can ever justify its price tag, because if you did look at my post in the other thread, you'd see why I say that.
If 100% pure carnauba can't stay on for 24 hours, what makes you think 70% with various oils and glycerin will?
My point is that if the manufacturers of the only product that could withstand 24 hours testing unfazed (almost 72 in fact) suggest a fortnightly-monthly reapplication, why would a product that can't last as long be purported to last months, or even years?
It defies logic.
Don't think I believe sample 4 was Zymöl, it could be anything, but if 5, being 100% pure carnauba fails, I fail to see how sunflower oil, coconut oil - both useful for cooking and tanning respectively - can change the outcome.
They're there like they (or sunflower specifically is) are in butter to make the product soft and easier to apply.
I've nothing against Zymöl nor Swissvax, but I do have severe reservations they are anything like they have been hyped up about, especially with those with a vested interest in using them.
I'm not interested in marketing spin either, and have no intention of starting a pissing contest or the like, but I do find it incredible how some people over look the glaringly obvious when it comes to high end products.
I'll nail my flag to the mast, and say there's no way in any shape or form that Royale can ever justify its price tag, because if you did look at my post in the other thread, you'd see why I say that.
If 100% pure carnauba can't stay on for 24 hours, what makes you think 70% with various oils and glycerin will?
My point is that if the manufacturers of the only product that could withstand 24 hours testing unfazed (almost 72 in fact) suggest a fortnightly-monthly reapplication, why would a product that can't last as long be purported to last months, or even years?
It defies logic.
Don't think I believe sample 4 was Zymöl, it could be anything, but if 5, being 100% pure carnauba fails, I fail to see how sunflower oil, coconut oil - both useful for cooking and tanning respectively - can change the outcome.
They're there like they (or sunflower specifically is) are in butter to make the product soft and easier to apply.
I've nothing against Zymöl nor Swissvax, but I do have severe reservations they are anything like they have been hyped up about, especially with those with a vested interest in using them.
I vaguely agree with what you are saying, but not that it lasts 24 hours. You just have to look at how the car reacts to water and contaminents just sliding off a couple of months later, exactly as it did the day it was applied, to know that it hasn't just dissolved.
I'm not a chemist or a scientist, so I'm not going to try and argue the toss - as a detailer, I have a different opinion, and possibly experience from you.
By the way, I have used Royale, and while its lovely, it can NEVER justify the ridiculous price tag, its just pure marketing genius (depending which side of the table you're sat on!)
I'm not a chemist or a scientist, so I'm not going to try and argue the toss - as a detailer, I have a different opinion, and possibly experience from you.
By the way, I have used Royale, and while its lovely, it can NEVER justify the ridiculous price tag, its just pure marketing genius (depending which side of the table you're sat on!)
I dont see why people are paying too much attention to the "cost" of Royale. I'd say the vast majority of the cost of a detail is paying for 8hrs of a professionals services. The portion which relates to the cost of Zymol is relatively incidental. What seems to give it a bad rep is that it comes in huge tubs which cost £7k, but maybe if it came in smaller tubs which cost £500 people wouldnt notice/whinge as much.
The effects of Zymol speak for themselves, and as such the Detail industry is booming and the large majority of supercar owners wouldnt use anything else. Try going on www.detailingworld.co.uk and arguing your case against the profs and see if you can get any agreements?
As for that test mentioned in another thread, sure if you keep your car in a place which subjects it to hot salt spray 24hrs a day then I'm quite happy to agree that Zymol would wear the same as any other treatment. If I put on a bulletproof vest then stood infront of anti-aircraft fire, i'm pretty sure it'd have the same effect as a string vest but does that mean we should send out our troops in the real world looking like Rab C Nesbit?!
The effects of Zymol speak for themselves, and as such the Detail industry is booming and the large majority of supercar owners wouldnt use anything else. Try going on www.detailingworld.co.uk and arguing your case against the profs and see if you can get any agreements?
As for that test mentioned in another thread, sure if you keep your car in a place which subjects it to hot salt spray 24hrs a day then I'm quite happy to agree that Zymol would wear the same as any other treatment. If I put on a bulletproof vest then stood infront of anti-aircraft fire, i'm pretty sure it'd have the same effect as a string vest but does that mean we should send out our troops in the real world looking like Rab C Nesbit?!
Edited by kryten22uk on Wednesday 12th September 21:32
kryten - you misunderstood the point of the test. It's an accelerated timeframe test, so instead of waiting weeks or months, or even years, you can see the projected outcome in a more reasonable timescale - days.
My 'argument' is that water beading as used by the experts as an accepted measure of how much protection the wax/sealant is providing, is gravely misleading. You car will bead and sheet water all on its own just fine, as I can testify to after having clayed mine for the first time in its life.
The rain the next day never used to leave beads of water after like it did that day.
Equally, the paintwork never looked as glossy or mirror-like as it did when I'd dried the car off after claying only.
You can see my report/review of the Bilt Hamber Auto Clay in here.
All I'm trying to convey is that no other manufacturer has conducted a similar test to prove the longevity of their wax/sealant - it's all word of mouth by enthusiasts, etc.
Again, I'm not saying there's nothing to the claims being made, but I tend to believe they are overstated and some form of empirical measurement would confirm the hype being real or blown out of all proportion.
The fact none have except one, using a very standard industry testing method which paint and anti-corrosion manufacturers use or a derivative of, should make people think a bit deeper than they seem to do.
If Zaino, Swissvax, Zymöl, etc really wanted to, they could submit their products to an independent lab/test facility and show their results. But as long as you have a community prepared to take things on hearsay/reputation/and so forth, then the companies have no incentive to as things are going alone just fine as is.
But, if anyone has some of those respected and highly regarded brands' waxes/sealant and are willing to provide it for application and testing to see how they fayre, then I'd be more than willing to organise it.
I suspect though, that no matter what the outcome, the majority will just bury their heads in the sand and pretend every thing's still the same.
I'd loved to be proven wrong, since that would show there's more to the expensive brands than just hype and, often, silly price tags for something that doesn't cost anywhere near the 1/10th of retail price most manufactured goods are.
My 'argument' is that water beading as used by the experts as an accepted measure of how much protection the wax/sealant is providing, is gravely misleading. You car will bead and sheet water all on its own just fine, as I can testify to after having clayed mine for the first time in its life.
The rain the next day never used to leave beads of water after like it did that day.
Equally, the paintwork never looked as glossy or mirror-like as it did when I'd dried the car off after claying only.
You can see my report/review of the Bilt Hamber Auto Clay in here.
All I'm trying to convey is that no other manufacturer has conducted a similar test to prove the longevity of their wax/sealant - it's all word of mouth by enthusiasts, etc.
Again, I'm not saying there's nothing to the claims being made, but I tend to believe they are overstated and some form of empirical measurement would confirm the hype being real or blown out of all proportion.
The fact none have except one, using a very standard industry testing method which paint and anti-corrosion manufacturers use or a derivative of, should make people think a bit deeper than they seem to do.
If Zaino, Swissvax, Zymöl, etc really wanted to, they could submit their products to an independent lab/test facility and show their results. But as long as you have a community prepared to take things on hearsay/reputation/and so forth, then the companies have no incentive to as things are going alone just fine as is.
But, if anyone has some of those respected and highly regarded brands' waxes/sealant and are willing to provide it for application and testing to see how they fayre, then I'd be more than willing to organise it.
I suspect though, that no matter what the outcome, the majority will just bury their heads in the sand and pretend every thing's still the same.
I'd loved to be proven wrong, since that would show there's more to the expensive brands than just hype and, often, silly price tags for something that doesn't cost anywhere near the 1/10th of retail price most manufactured goods are.
i would be interested to see the full test criteria in said test.
another point also -an lsp has other factors too. Their make up has considerations on the care and longevity of the paint finish. solvent based products can affect the sub surface of the paint and pigmentation too.
I have and use the bilt hamber autobalm - on the alloys of the wifes Clio Cup and it does protect them well indeed.
On the Royale - I own/use this and have it on my own car. Its quite simply amazing. The depth, clarity and finish is second to none. no solvants either - just natural oils. for most in the show and prep concern - the protection and beading is not to be all and end all - its how the finish is enhaced, the warmth to the paint, the clarity of reflection, the depth of reflection etc The BH finish is very shap indeed (typical of an acrylic) but poor depth and leaves a cold finish.
Also on the claying front/non waxed beading. Yes paint is hydroscopic without an LSP. After corrective polishing i alway rinse the car ( filtered water ) then blow dry prior to finishing stages and it does bead well. however if left untreated, the beading effect would diminish as contaminats and film form a bonded layer onto said paint.
the polished surface and the clayed surface too bead so well because the prepped surface has a very low coefficient of friction after those stages - but a good LSP is needed to protect that finish.
Oh and Jason - LOVELY job fella. We need a chat at some point - some interesting goss for you ;-)
another point also -an lsp has other factors too. Their make up has considerations on the care and longevity of the paint finish. solvent based products can affect the sub surface of the paint and pigmentation too.
I have and use the bilt hamber autobalm - on the alloys of the wifes Clio Cup and it does protect them well indeed.
On the Royale - I own/use this and have it on my own car. Its quite simply amazing. The depth, clarity and finish is second to none. no solvants either - just natural oils. for most in the show and prep concern - the protection and beading is not to be all and end all - its how the finish is enhaced, the warmth to the paint, the clarity of reflection, the depth of reflection etc The BH finish is very shap indeed (typical of an acrylic) but poor depth and leaves a cold finish.
Also on the claying front/non waxed beading. Yes paint is hydroscopic without an LSP. After corrective polishing i alway rinse the car ( filtered water ) then blow dry prior to finishing stages and it does bead well. however if left untreated, the beading effect would diminish as contaminats and film form a bonded layer onto said paint.
the polished surface and the clayed surface too bead so well because the prepped surface has a very low coefficient of friction after those stages - but a good LSP is needed to protect that finish.
Oh and Jason - LOVELY job fella. We need a chat at some point - some interesting goss for you ;-)
i cannot understanding the obsession with beading? - detailing world forums are full of beading shots? - so now for your car to look its 'best' you have to wait for a rainy day?
as for Zymol and the other 'premium' waxes - i'd love to see a car with each panel done with a different wax and see if the 'experts' could identify each one?
btw - i'm not tight when it comes to my wax but i consider £50 to be a reasonable upper price limit!
as for Zymol and the other 'premium' waxes - i'd love to see a car with each panel done with a different wax and see if the 'experts' could identify each one?
btw - i'm not tight when it comes to my wax but i consider £50 to be a reasonable upper price limit!
Edited by grand cherokee on Thursday 13th September 10:48
grand cherokee said:
anybody ordered the new Zymol wax at $30,000?
no doubt there will be some with more money than sense?
Hi GCno doubt there will be some with more money than sense?
I fully understand the point you make about the beading shots - heres my take
As a pro detailer and being involved in the scene i do honestly believe that the people really hung on it are a certain type ( no shouting now!) they are perfectionistic, creative individuals who obsess on small details often overlooked by the 'norm' if you will. Many are keen photographers ( me too) and many take great pleasure from making things appear as perfect as possible. so the beading shots IMHO can be quite arty and there is something attractive about a close up of perfectly formed gossamer beads across and deeply perfected panel. but tbh i think some can get it wrong, follow the crowd and go on about beading for the sake of it.
I am sucker for the reflection shots myself and jst love perfect clarity and razor sharp reflection in paint.
As for the wax you refer to - its called solaris and is only available to invited individuals ( unless thats changed recently) I will buy it when my turn comes though. Hmm hope my wife is not reading this......
kind regards
Matthew
off your marks said:
grand cherokee said:
anybody ordered the new Zymol wax at $30,000?
no doubt there will be some with more money than sense?
Hi GCno doubt there will be some with more money than sense?
I fully understand the point you make about the beading shots - heres my take
As a pro detailer and being involved in the scene i do honestly believe that the people really hung on it are a certain type ( no shouting now!) they are perfectionistic, creative individuals who obsess on small details often overlooked by the 'norm' if you will. Many are keen photographers ( me too) and many take great pleasure from making things appear as perfect as possible. so the beading shots IMHO can be quite arty and there is something attractive about a close up of perfectly formed gossamer beads across and deeply perfected panel. but tbh i think some can get it wrong, follow the crowd and go on about beading for the sake of it.
I am sucker for the reflection shots myself and jst love perfect clarity and razor sharp reflection in paint.
As for the wax you refer to - its called solaris and is only available to invited individuals ( unless thats changed recently) I will buy it when my turn comes though. Hmm hope my wife is not reading this......
kind regards
Matthew
are you honestly going to pay $30,000 for a wax?
i ask that in all seriousness because as i see it detailing is quickly reaching a crossroads!
you like me no doubt frequent detailing world forums - surely you see that detailing now has become a get rich quick scheme - people 'over there' setting up as detailers and charging £50+ /hour despite very limited knowledge or experience
as an example - a so called pro detailer just wanted to know which rotary to buy and then reports he cannot get on with it - yet sells his services as a pro detailer?
if detailing is to retain credibility there needs to be a massive crackdown on the newbies with little or no experience - it damages the reputable people who know what they are doing - but sadly all are at risk of getting tarred by the same brush!
Edited by grand cherokee on Thursday 13th September 12:54
Edited by grand cherokee on Thursday 13th September 13:01
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