Swirl marks - help!
Discussion
Usual paint care is clay whenever necessary, usually no more than once a year, Meguiars no 1 paint cleaner maybe twice a year and every three months or so polish with Turtle wax colour magic.
I can see you all recoiling with horror
but it works for me - incidentally I've a whole cupboard of half used Autoglym and other Meguiars products that didn't, so that's why I use what I do.
Cars are a Pug 206 and Jauguar XJ8. The Jag gets washed a lot more than the Pug and I think that's where the problem is. Weeks after a polish the Pug is still relatively swirl free but the XJ is covered in them. I suspect part of the problem is the lacquer on the XJ may be a lot softer than the Pug.
I use loads of water, blast the car with a hose to shift any loose dirt and dust and leave it soaking with the first lot of cleaning water and Turtle wax shampoo for as long as I can before it starts to dry. Rinse this shampoo off then wash with a Meguiars wash mit and more Turtle wax.
Then I rinse again and dry with a combination of Autoglym water blade and a chammy leather.
I make sure everything that contacts the car is clean and am as gentle with the paint as possible. I use clean microfibre and 100% cotton towels for polishing. Paint looks fantastic - really shiny and swirl free when it's first been done, but soon, just a few washes later is covered in swirls again.
Any clues anybody? Any better products or techniques for washing and drying to avoid swirls coming back?
I can see you all recoiling with horror
but it works for me - incidentally I've a whole cupboard of half used Autoglym and other Meguiars products that didn't, so that's why I use what I do.Cars are a Pug 206 and Jauguar XJ8. The Jag gets washed a lot more than the Pug and I think that's where the problem is. Weeks after a polish the Pug is still relatively swirl free but the XJ is covered in them. I suspect part of the problem is the lacquer on the XJ may be a lot softer than the Pug.
I use loads of water, blast the car with a hose to shift any loose dirt and dust and leave it soaking with the first lot of cleaning water and Turtle wax shampoo for as long as I can before it starts to dry. Rinse this shampoo off then wash with a Meguiars wash mit and more Turtle wax.
Then I rinse again and dry with a combination of Autoglym water blade and a chammy leather.
I make sure everything that contacts the car is clean and am as gentle with the paint as possible. I use clean microfibre and 100% cotton towels for polishing. Paint looks fantastic - really shiny and swirl free when it's first been done, but soon, just a few washes later is covered in swirls again.
Any clues anybody? Any better products or techniques for washing and drying to avoid swirls coming back?
The softness of the paint has a lot to do with the susceptiblity to picking up swirls, but Pugs are not known for having massively hard paint.
OK, the pre-rinse is good and a little dwell with the shampoo is fine, but use the two bucket wash method (wash solution in one, rinse water in the other... pick up wash solution from one bucket then rinse the mitt in the other), contemplate using Grit Guards, inspect the washmitt for a clean face whilst using it and ditch the water blade. I have seen pics of the scratches these can create if a tiny bit of dirt has got caught on the blade. It is the contact stage of a contact wash that causes the damage. The chamois leather isn't the softest type of drying product either; a soft microfibre would probably be better, patted rather than dragged over the surface. Cotton towels aren't that soft either - go for good quality microfibre, not the cheap rubbish as it is amazing what can mark paint.
Also, it's likely you are never really getting rid of the swirls - you are just hiding them. The clay won't remove swirls and the colour magic will be filling them; it needs a machine polish, then careful maintenance. I would use a good 'filling' product like Autoglym SRP or Bilt Hamber Autobalm regularly as these will hide the swirls, but when the protection wears off (or at claying) the swirls will reappear. Depends how far you want to go with it all. Keeping a panel swril free is a labour of love. Maybe get the car machine polished once a year, and maintain it as carefully as possible for the rest of the time?
OK, the pre-rinse is good and a little dwell with the shampoo is fine, but use the two bucket wash method (wash solution in one, rinse water in the other... pick up wash solution from one bucket then rinse the mitt in the other), contemplate using Grit Guards, inspect the washmitt for a clean face whilst using it and ditch the water blade. I have seen pics of the scratches these can create if a tiny bit of dirt has got caught on the blade. It is the contact stage of a contact wash that causes the damage. The chamois leather isn't the softest type of drying product either; a soft microfibre would probably be better, patted rather than dragged over the surface. Cotton towels aren't that soft either - go for good quality microfibre, not the cheap rubbish as it is amazing what can mark paint.
Also, it's likely you are never really getting rid of the swirls - you are just hiding them. The clay won't remove swirls and the colour magic will be filling them; it needs a machine polish, then careful maintenance. I would use a good 'filling' product like Autoglym SRP or Bilt Hamber Autobalm regularly as these will hide the swirls, but when the protection wears off (or at claying) the swirls will reappear. Depends how far you want to go with it all. Keeping a panel swril free is a labour of love. Maybe get the car machine polished once a year, and maintain it as carefully as possible for the rest of the time?
Thanks so far chaps... I'd thought about a proper machine polish but I'm not sure that's really what's needed as once the car has been cleaned with Meguiars no 1 and before it's polished there's no swirls visible at all - even under 1000w of halogen lighting.
It seems the swirls build up over washes - I'll try suggestions and see how it goes
It seems the swirls build up over washes - I'll try suggestions and see how it goes
I would recommend a professional paint correction job: if you then adhere to strict cleaning techniques (multiple buckets/lambswool mitts/low pressure jetspray/grit guard/filtered final spray down [I do not favour any form of chamois]) then you can be swirl free for many moons.
However, it is a ridiculous rigmarole and there is a sporting chance your wife's disdain will manifest as fruit thrown at you from the ramparts.
Bally wimmin - they just don't get it!
However, it is a ridiculous rigmarole and there is a sporting chance your wife's disdain will manifest as fruit thrown at you from the ramparts.
Bally wimmin - they just don't get it!
derestrictor said:
I would recommend a professional paint correction job: if you then adhere to strict cleaning techniques (multiple buckets/lambswool mitts/low pressure jetspray/grit guard/filtered final spray down [I do not favour any form of chamois]) then you can be swirl free for many moons.
However, it is a ridiculous rigmarole and there is a sporting chance your wife's disdain will manifest as fruit thrown at you from the ramparts.
Bally wimmin - they just don't get it!
tbh even using two bucket method etc etc you will still end up with swirl marks - i have tried everything inc filtered water and the garden blower drying approachHowever, it is a ridiculous rigmarole and there is a sporting chance your wife's disdain will manifest as fruit thrown at you from the ramparts.
Bally wimmin - they just don't get it!
these reduce swirls etc but as soon as you use a cloth to apply detailer etc you will introduce swirls
step away from a car for 10 minutes and airborn dust etc will settle on the surface - FACT - some of these particles are abrasive
leave a car overnight - unless in a garage - and it will accumulate more particles which you will 'rub in' - unless you wash the car again and do touch free drying
its a vicious circle!
Edited by grand cherokee on Sunday 3rd May 12:35
Chief, that's why I recommend a pro with a (relatively dust free) facility.
I'd say minor scratching rather than swirls per se are inevitable over time (numpties brushing past yer bumper when parked up, etc) but there are things to be done which can ameliorate this effect.
Obviously, any cleaning action should categorically not be circular in motion and the pressure exerted should be almost nil; indeed, the lambswool mitt should float across surfaces with pressure sufficient only to glide it forth in straight lines.
I tend to perform several pre mitt app agitations with the low pressure jet; the initial 'blast' to dislodge the major flea and muck splatterings followed by two rounds of high concentration, soaped foam and then a final blast to clear.
Re the actual procedure for swiping the mitt, ensure a constantly wet path beforehand: the worst thing you can do is apply to dry metal. Of course, rub it through the grit guard (bucket) every 1/4-1/3 panel.
This is approximately 1/3 of the procedure - I get the screaming ab dabs when driving past the hordes of phillistines submitting their car to Kosovan or automated paint abuse - you wouldn't clean your face with a sandpaper flannel so why subject your p&j to an equivalent butchery?
I'd say minor scratching rather than swirls per se are inevitable over time (numpties brushing past yer bumper when parked up, etc) but there are things to be done which can ameliorate this effect.
Obviously, any cleaning action should categorically not be circular in motion and the pressure exerted should be almost nil; indeed, the lambswool mitt should float across surfaces with pressure sufficient only to glide it forth in straight lines.
I tend to perform several pre mitt app agitations with the low pressure jet; the initial 'blast' to dislodge the major flea and muck splatterings followed by two rounds of high concentration, soaped foam and then a final blast to clear.
Re the actual procedure for swiping the mitt, ensure a constantly wet path beforehand: the worst thing you can do is apply to dry metal. Of course, rub it through the grit guard (bucket) every 1/4-1/3 panel.
This is approximately 1/3 of the procedure - I get the screaming ab dabs when driving past the hordes of phillistines submitting their car to Kosovan or automated paint abuse - you wouldn't clean your face with a sandpaper flannel so why subject your p&j to an equivalent butchery?
derestrictor said:
Chief, that's why I recommend a pro with a (relatively dust free) facility.
I'd say minor scratching rather than swirls per se are inevitable over time (numpties brushing past yer bumper when parked up, etc) but there are things to be done which can ameliorate this effect.
Obviously, any cleaning action should categorically not be circular in motion and the pressure exerted should be almost nil; indeed, the lambswool mitt should float across surfaces with pressure sufficient only to glide it forth in straight lines.
I tend to perform several pre mitt app agitations with the low pressure jet; the initial 'blast' to dislodge the major flea and muck splatterings followed by two rounds of high concentration, soaped foam and then a final blast to clear.
Re the actual procedure for swiping the mitt, ensure a constantly wet path beforehand: the worst thing you can do is apply to dry metal. Of course, rub it through the grit guard (bucket) every 1/4-1/3 panel.
This is approximately 1/3 of the procedure - I get the screaming ab dabs when driving past the hordes of phillistines submitting their car to Kosovan or automated paint abuse - you wouldn't clean your face with a sandpaper flannel so why subject your p&j to an equivalent butchery?
very fair commentsI'd say minor scratching rather than swirls per se are inevitable over time (numpties brushing past yer bumper when parked up, etc) but there are things to be done which can ameliorate this effect.
Obviously, any cleaning action should categorically not be circular in motion and the pressure exerted should be almost nil; indeed, the lambswool mitt should float across surfaces with pressure sufficient only to glide it forth in straight lines.
I tend to perform several pre mitt app agitations with the low pressure jet; the initial 'blast' to dislodge the major flea and muck splatterings followed by two rounds of high concentration, soaped foam and then a final blast to clear.
Re the actual procedure for swiping the mitt, ensure a constantly wet path beforehand: the worst thing you can do is apply to dry metal. Of course, rub it through the grit guard (bucket) every 1/4-1/3 panel.
This is approximately 1/3 of the procedure - I get the screaming ab dabs when driving past the hordes of phillistines submitting their car to Kosovan or automated paint abuse - you wouldn't clean your face with a sandpaper flannel so why subject your p&j to an equivalent butchery?
what i do
a) foam using Auto Rae Chem foam (not the citrus) with some megs Gold
b) rinse with pressure washer
c) repeat foam as in a)
d) rinse again with pressure washer
e) mist car with autoglym rinse aid (pro range)
f) rinse with free flowing 'filtered' water
g) dry with leaf blower
h) apply a detailer (megs or similar) with quality microfibre
and i still get some marks!!!
if the car is really bad i will use the two bucket method after step d)
Edited by grand cherokee on Monday 4th May 11:19
derestrictor said:
I sometimes use the blower but mine would seem bereft of the requisite power to fully shift and effectively disperse the droplets sufficiently: what's your weapon of choice in this regard?
just a Black and Decker machine - does about 20 minutes when fully chargedalso got a cheap model that runs off the 'mains' - just as good
would not pay more than £30 for one
in fact i have a spare brand new in box (black and decker cordless) for sale
Edited by grand cherokee on Monday 4th May 12:15
derestrictor said:
I sometimes use the blower but mine would seem bereft of the requisite power to fully shift and effectively disperse the droplets sufficiently: what's your weapon of choice in this regard?
if you use autoglym rinse aid you will find the water 'residue' flies off the car!
grand cherokee said:
derestrictor said:
I sometimes use the blower but mine would seem bereft of the requisite power to fully shift and effectively disperse the droplets sufficiently: what's your weapon of choice in this regard?
if you use autoglym rinse aid you will find the water 'residue' flies off the car!HRG said:
You've either got to fill the swirl marks (Autoglym SRP, Scratch X etc.) or have them professionally buffed out IMO. One of my cars is covered in swirls from a previous owner, when I apply a couple of coats of SRP then seal with Zymol carnuba wax she stays swirl free for months.
So does SRP + sealant give comparable results to "paintwork correction" by professional detailer? Had my last car corrected/detailed - looked great at first but still "swirled" again, even when handwashed with two buckets etc. I have some SRP in garage, and much cheaper/easier to do it myself if that's going to do the job. Just picked up a nearly new black Jag which looks like it has been polished with a Brillo pad by previous owner (or possibly dealer...)!
Non-silicone polish is only a concern in bodyshops and on freshly painted panels - otherwise, it's not a problem to get overly anxious about.
If you're doing it by hand, you're in for quite an ordeal, and might be best to break into the piggy bank for a pro to machine it for you, or spend on a machine to DIY.
Thereafter, it's about how you wash the car to minimise the potential for inflicting fresh marks for the next 6-12 months, before it'll probably need a light buff once again.
If you're doing it by hand, you're in for quite an ordeal, and might be best to break into the piggy bank for a pro to machine it for you, or spend on a machine to DIY.
Thereafter, it's about how you wash the car to minimise the potential for inflicting fresh marks for the next 6-12 months, before it'll probably need a light buff once again.
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