Own a classic car?
Discussion
If you own and drive a classic car, have you heard of the Charter of Turin? It wouldn't surprise me if you hadn't, Fiva are quietly pushing it, and the FBHVC supports it, but have been very quiet about it.
The charter has some very interesting articles. http://www.fiva.org/EN/Torino/CharterTorino.html
Classic Car Weekly recently reported on this, and there is some concern that if the charter is adopted, it will have far reaching consequences for classic car owners and clubs in the UK.
Dan
The charter has some very interesting articles. http://www.fiva.org/EN/Torino/CharterTorino.html
Classic Car Weekly recently reported on this, and there is some concern that if the charter is adopted, it will have far reaching consequences for classic car owners and clubs in the UK.
Dan
I take it that a charter is something one might voluntarily "sign-up" to and would not be enforced. If so that is fine otherwise it has the risk of becoming like listed buildings status where nothing can be done without prior agreement from an authorising body. For seriously historic vehicles I think preservation is already well governed by the market although I suppose there is the nauseatingly ott pebble beach restorations to worry about and vehicles deemed of little interest that ought to be preserved.
On a separate note, the word they are looking for is lose, not loose!!
On a separate note, the word they are looking for is lose, not loose!!
When ACE became aware of this in it’s draft form almost a year ago we started to contact organizations in the Classic Car world to highlight it’s dangers.
The response that we received was basically that it was ‘Good for all concerned’ and was merely a ‘Lobbying Tool’ and not a proposal for any kind of legislation.
We also carried a pre-prepared letter for subscribers to contact their MEP's expressing their concerns.
http://www.the-ace.org.uk/
The feedback we have had from this has been generally supportive, although many politicians also fail to make the connections between the charter and it's implications.
While we agree that it is not currently intended to form a basis for legislation, it is being used by FIVA as the basis of their discussions with the European Union.
In a recent newsletter they stated:
In many countries there are exemptions and special requirements for historic vehicles driven on public roads. Now the world federation of historic vehicles – the FIVA – is developing a strategy for globally safeguarding the right to drive historic vehicles on public roads in the face of a clutter of more and more complex government restrictions.
Which many people may see as a good thing but, when that strategy is based on a concept of an Historic vehicle being what FIVA says it should be, rather than recognizing the different ‘Breeds’ of historic vehicle, from the absolutely bone stock, to simple engine swaps and heavily modified vehicles.
Should the premise of the FIVA charter be adopted in a way that leads to the formulation of legislation, many owners of modified classic vehicles will find themselves in a no-man’s land where they are not recognized as historic and therefore cannot benefit from any concessions and may be forced to comply with ‘Current’ legislation, which many of them would not be equipped to do.
We contacted the FBHVC for their comments on the charter and were told that it was something that they had discussed at a committee meeting but they would not be raising it as an AGM item for member clubs to have input into.
This is a very shortsighted stance and brings into question the FHBVC’s commitment to supporting the ‘Entire’ Historic vehicle movement in the UK.
Steve Wallace
The ACE Admin team.
The response that we received was basically that it was ‘Good for all concerned’ and was merely a ‘Lobbying Tool’ and not a proposal for any kind of legislation.
We also carried a pre-prepared letter for subscribers to contact their MEP's expressing their concerns.
http://www.the-ace.org.uk/
The feedback we have had from this has been generally supportive, although many politicians also fail to make the connections between the charter and it's implications.
While we agree that it is not currently intended to form a basis for legislation, it is being used by FIVA as the basis of their discussions with the European Union.
In a recent newsletter they stated:
In many countries there are exemptions and special requirements for historic vehicles driven on public roads. Now the world federation of historic vehicles – the FIVA – is developing a strategy for globally safeguarding the right to drive historic vehicles on public roads in the face of a clutter of more and more complex government restrictions.
Which many people may see as a good thing but, when that strategy is based on a concept of an Historic vehicle being what FIVA says it should be, rather than recognizing the different ‘Breeds’ of historic vehicle, from the absolutely bone stock, to simple engine swaps and heavily modified vehicles.
Should the premise of the FIVA charter be adopted in a way that leads to the formulation of legislation, many owners of modified classic vehicles will find themselves in a no-man’s land where they are not recognized as historic and therefore cannot benefit from any concessions and may be forced to comply with ‘Current’ legislation, which many of them would not be equipped to do.
We contacted the FBHVC for their comments on the charter and were told that it was something that they had discussed at a committee meeting but they would not be raising it as an AGM item for member clubs to have input into.
This is a very shortsighted stance and brings into question the FHBVC’s commitment to supporting the ‘Entire’ Historic vehicle movement in the UK.
Steve Wallace
The ACE Admin team.
There are several problems as I see it.
One is the general apathy being shown by many clubs within the FBHVC in failing to ask questions and simply swallowing the reasurances that the committee give them... As a club, we sent out 50 letters asking for opinions from fellow FBHVC clubs... We got back 4 replies which ranged from "What's this?" to "WTF"
Two, is that while attitudes to the classic car movement may be favourable within the EU parliament circles at the moment, it wouldn't take much for that to change, and for them to decide to fully adopt the Charter as the legally binding criteria for a classic car. Then, as one poster said, you would be looking at cars being treated as listed buildings, with many not coming up to scratch, and the being treated as modern vehicles. (Not good news for those in the UK that currently enjoy tax exemption by virtue of age alone)
And third - If you own a modified vehicle... FIVA and the FBHVC are not interested in fighting your corner. They will take your money as fully paid up members, but forget about any kind of backing.
Dan
One is the general apathy being shown by many clubs within the FBHVC in failing to ask questions and simply swallowing the reasurances that the committee give them... As a club, we sent out 50 letters asking for opinions from fellow FBHVC clubs... We got back 4 replies which ranged from "What's this?" to "WTF"
Two, is that while attitudes to the classic car movement may be favourable within the EU parliament circles at the moment, it wouldn't take much for that to change, and for them to decide to fully adopt the Charter as the legally binding criteria for a classic car. Then, as one poster said, you would be looking at cars being treated as listed buildings, with many not coming up to scratch, and the being treated as modern vehicles. (Not good news for those in the UK that currently enjoy tax exemption by virtue of age alone)
And third - If you own a modified vehicle... FIVA and the FBHVC are not interested in fighting your corner. They will take your money as fully paid up members, but forget about any kind of backing.
Dan
holes trying to impose their wishes on others. Reminds me a bit of aging golf club commitee members imposing stupid dress codes because it's what they wear and like ergo everyone else must adhere to their tastes.I have heard about this.
I can see what they are trying to do. They are trying to say 'classic cars should be preserved and protected!' They then go on to define a classic car worthy of protection as one that hasn't been modified. Well, OK. I sort of understand.
What would be bad is if the governments took this strict definition of a classic car and used that as the only one. So cars either fit the description, and are classics, or do not fit the description and are not. If this charter where to afford additional rights and protections on unmodified classic cars then I would support it. If, on the other hand, it will make owning a 'normal' classic car more difficult it's a very bad thing.
ETA: As long as there is one, utterly standard, E-type, one MGB, one Herald etc...does it really matter if people modify others?
I can see what they are trying to do. They are trying to say 'classic cars should be preserved and protected!' They then go on to define a classic car worthy of protection as one that hasn't been modified. Well, OK. I sort of understand.
What would be bad is if the governments took this strict definition of a classic car and used that as the only one. So cars either fit the description, and are classics, or do not fit the description and are not. If this charter where to afford additional rights and protections on unmodified classic cars then I would support it. If, on the other hand, it will make owning a 'normal' classic car more difficult it's a very bad thing.
ETA: As long as there is one, utterly standard, E-type, one MGB, one Herald etc...does it really matter if people modify others?
Edited by varsas on Wednesday 19th October 19:23
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