how much for MGB pile of bits??
Discussion
£10,000 for this http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3379094.htm
or
£10,995 for this http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3225709.htm
agreed pull-handled models carry a premium, are sort-after for early FIA et al, but surely this a typo' error??
or
£10,995 for this http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3225709.htm
agreed pull-handled models carry a premium, are sort-after for early FIA et al, but surely this a typo' error??
Yes it sounds crazy but there is a world of difference in "asking price" and what its worth. If someone is silly enough to pay £10k for a pile of bits thats up to them. IMHO and judging only from the photos the completed car is not as "mint" as it would appear, certainly in terms of originality.
LordBretSinclair said:
Yes it sounds crazy but there is a world of difference in "asking price" and what its worth. If someone is silly enough to pay £10k for a pile of bits thats up to them. IMHO and judging only from the photos the completed car is not as "mint" as it would appear, certainly in terms of originality.
you've picked-up on that too 
sat here still scratching head as to asking price. we all know new shells can be bought for £6200 straight from MOSS and BMH. all parts readily available for nicely assembled pull-handle car, giving owner a brand new early MGB...or buy the pretty rebuilt and clearly looked-after 1965 car and save a fair-few pounds at the same time.off now for pint of reality-checking...
gforceg said:
If you put all those bits together and assumimg everything was there and it all worked, you'd have a car that looked like it needed to be taken apart and restored!
+1having had a good pint of "reality check" have looked at components in each photo putting a realistic price against each...
Photo.1&2 [£2100]
Bodyshell £1000k
Hardtop £200
Block and Head £400
Gearbox £250
Banjo Axle £250
Photo.4 [£160]
Doors £40
Fuel Tank £40
Radiator £60
Roof Frame £20
Photo.5 [£75]
Wheels £25 the set
Seats £20 the pair
Steering Wheel £30
Photo.6 [£180]
Dash & Gauges £50
Crossmember £60
Front and Rear Bumpers £60
Bin the rest
Photo.7 [£500]
Bonnet, Bootlid, Windscreen Frame £500
Photo.8 [£300]
Doors £300
Photo.9 [£50]
Bin the lot except for SU carbs at £50 the pair…send these to Burlen for complete refurb or buy new.
This totals £3365...and that's being bloody generous...jeepers, with careful searching you can buy a complete rustfree MGB for that price.
I think the point that has been missed is it is an original NOS pull handle shell.
It isn't rare, it's unique, the only original shells in equal condition will be new cars that ended up in museums, I would suggest there will be a mere handful of Pull handle roadsters in unused museum condition as opposed to restored (welded up shell) condition.
In other words a unique opportunity exists to make the rarest B in genuinely as new condition.
The guy who's valued the shell at a grand must be having a laugh, a new push handle shell from BMH is £6500 and then needs modifying to pull handle spec (I believe now you can get 3 synchro shells at last so at least it's not the transmission tunnel too!) which is not a simple or cheap job. Provided the shell has been stored well and is still in good condition he can virtually name his price as someone will buy it.
The rest of the bits are of limited value, the ID, early engine and box (hopefully with matching engine NO.) and banjo axle have a little value, as do the early dash and quarterlights etc.
If there is everything there bar trim and chrome though then it's priced about right. That said you will easily spend 5k plus getting everything else to new spec to match the shell. Value when done?? Should be £15k+ if the work is done right. If it's not then it's worth no more than an equivalent pull handle car and will lose money, if it's done to classic race spec it could be worth crazy money if you can get it papers, and if done to concourse it could probably achieve 20k.
That said it's a pity because ultimately Bs are designed to have fun in, it's unlikely to be ever a "fun" car, I find that a little sad.
It isn't rare, it's unique, the only original shells in equal condition will be new cars that ended up in museums, I would suggest there will be a mere handful of Pull handle roadsters in unused museum condition as opposed to restored (welded up shell) condition.
In other words a unique opportunity exists to make the rarest B in genuinely as new condition.
The guy who's valued the shell at a grand must be having a laugh, a new push handle shell from BMH is £6500 and then needs modifying to pull handle spec (I believe now you can get 3 synchro shells at last so at least it's not the transmission tunnel too!) which is not a simple or cheap job. Provided the shell has been stored well and is still in good condition he can virtually name his price as someone will buy it.
The rest of the bits are of limited value, the ID, early engine and box (hopefully with matching engine NO.) and banjo axle have a little value, as do the early dash and quarterlights etc.
If there is everything there bar trim and chrome though then it's priced about right. That said you will easily spend 5k plus getting everything else to new spec to match the shell. Value when done?? Should be £15k+ if the work is done right. If it's not then it's worth no more than an equivalent pull handle car and will lose money, if it's done to classic race spec it could be worth crazy money if you can get it papers, and if done to concourse it could probably achieve 20k.
That said it's a pity because ultimately Bs are designed to have fun in, it's unlikely to be ever a "fun" car, I find that a little sad.
v8250 said:
gforceg said:
If you put all those bits together and assumimg everything was there and it all worked, you'd have a car that looked like it needed to be taken apart and restored!
+1having had a good pint of "reality check" have looked at components in each photo putting a realistic price against each...
Photo.1&2 [£2100]
Bodyshell £1000k
Hardtop £200
Block and Head £400
Gearbox £250
Banjo Axle £250
Photo.4 [£160]
Doors £40
Fuel Tank £40
Radiator £60
Roof Frame £20
Photo.5 [£75]
Wheels £25 the set
Seats £20 the pair
Steering Wheel £30
Photo.6 [£180]
Dash & Gauges £50
Crossmember £60
Front and Rear Bumpers £60
Bin the rest
Photo.7 [£500]
Bonnet, Bootlid, Windscreen Frame £500
Photo.8 [£300]
Doors £300
Photo.9 [£50]
Bin the lot except for SU carbs at £50 the pair…send these to Burlen for complete refurb or buy new.
This totals £3365...and that's being bloody generous...jeepers, with careful searching you can buy a complete rustfree MGB for that price.
Bodyshell £1000k (I assume you meant 1k, I think I've described above that's a joke.)
Hardtop £200 (overpriced)
Block and Head £400 (I have a similar engine in my garage, when are you coming to collect it? £200 max)
Radiator £60 (if it's NOS maybe, otherwise a tenner)
Steering Wheel £30 (give over, decent banjo wheel for £30, how many have you got I'll take them all)
Dash & Gauges £50 (£100 at least, if they are the correct Jaeger gauges in good order double that)
Crossmember £60 (you'll be lucky)
Front and Rear Bumpers £60 (if chrome is good treble it or more, if rubbish then divide by 10)
Bin the rest - Oh yes like all the nuts and bolts you will need to put the car back together
Bonnet, Bootlid, Windscreen Frame £500 (again when you coming to collect, I can easily put some of these together.
Doors £300 (probably the only price you have got bang on, that said if they are pull handle doors which I feel they may be then the price is shy by I reckon about £600 as again they are NLA.
Photo.9 [£50]
Bin the lot except for SU carbs at £50 the pair…send these to Burlen for complete refurb or buy new. (god you've picked up on the carbs which are not rare or valuable but missed the fact that those boxes of bits are what make a car up, love the fact you missed the possibly original new hornpush in the pic which is worth more than a set of standard carbs.
This totals £3365...and that's being bloody generous...jeepers, with careful searching you can buy a complete rustfree MGB for that price.
In short if you can find me a decent pull handle roadster for anywhere near that price, I don't mind a little work I am a realist after all then please let me know.
I realise I have been harsh and I apologise but you have singled out a sellers (who incidentally I have never met or had affiliation with) advert and slated it, worst still you have slated it with no idea of prices or what you are talking about, I would kill for that shell infact the whole car! About the only thing I find slightly questionable is the NOS engine, it doesn't look new to me to be honest.
Interesting stuff, and I'm not even that interested in MGB's (I'll buy one one day, nice 'GT...).
I'm still not sure I understand. In the advert for the blue car it says the shell is original. So if you competently restored the 'box of bits' you'd end up with something very similar to the blue car, except you've just spent a lot of time, effort and a fair wedge of money over and above what the blue one cost.
Is there something else I'm missing, something that makes that NOS shell more special then the one in that blue car? Are we assuming the blue car's shell isn't as original?
I'm still not sure I understand. In the advert for the blue car it says the shell is original. So if you competently restored the 'box of bits' you'd end up with something very similar to the blue car, except you've just spent a lot of time, effort and a fair wedge of money over and above what the blue one cost.
Is there something else I'm missing, something that makes that NOS shell more special then the one in that blue car? Are we assuming the blue car's shell isn't as original?
Wildoliver, no problem with your reply. You're not being an arse at all - just expressing your perspective...
What I wanted to highlight was the disparity between the two adverts i.e. where's the value of £10K for the components shown in comparison to the blue MGB. It's true that somethings value/price is only what someone will pay. The prices I listed are for identical components that I've seen for sale/sold over the past 12mths; so they can't be too far adrift. Some of which have even been sold on this site.
An interesting point is that the components I suggested to be binned are most likely beyond economical repair. Some restorers may like to go to the time and expense of restoring a completely knackered part, others may choose to replace with new or a better quality 2nd hand part.
As for nuts and bolts...anyone who rebuilds a car using old knackered/rusty parts that form a structural fixing needs their arse kicked and shouldn't be doing the job in the first place. They should always be new and in perfect mechanical load-bearing order.
Ref' the NOS shell. Does that shell look like NOS i.e. never before used...ever? If so, great. But I'd like to see its provenance...because there are many shells/bodies that are inadvertantly promoted as NOS, when in fact they're not. And here I'm not only refering to MGB's i.e. MKII wings and E-Type bonnets.
If you're really after a pull-handle car there's one for sale in this months MGE for £8,500ono [see page87]. It's advertised as in good condition, and that's for a complete fully operational car.
As Varsas wrote: "I'm still not sure I understand. In the advert for the blue car it says the shell is original. So if you competently restored the 'box of bits' you'd end up with something very similar to the blue car, except you've just spent a lot of time, effort and a fair wedge of money over and above what the blue one cost."
Varsas has hit the nail on the head. Even if we restored the boxes of bits we would still finish-up with a car no better than the blue car. What would be shocking, would be the final build cost; any suggestions anyone?
Lastly, if you're after an early show-winning car there's one for sale @ £16,500 on this very site. It's a well known car. To rebuild the £10K boxes of rusty crap to this same high standard is going to cost you significantly more than £6500. But hey, it's your money. If you want to throw it away; carry-on... http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3378196.htm
What I wanted to highlight was the disparity between the two adverts i.e. where's the value of £10K for the components shown in comparison to the blue MGB. It's true that somethings value/price is only what someone will pay. The prices I listed are for identical components that I've seen for sale/sold over the past 12mths; so they can't be too far adrift. Some of which have even been sold on this site.
An interesting point is that the components I suggested to be binned are most likely beyond economical repair. Some restorers may like to go to the time and expense of restoring a completely knackered part, others may choose to replace with new or a better quality 2nd hand part.
As for nuts and bolts...anyone who rebuilds a car using old knackered/rusty parts that form a structural fixing needs their arse kicked and shouldn't be doing the job in the first place. They should always be new and in perfect mechanical load-bearing order.
Ref' the NOS shell. Does that shell look like NOS i.e. never before used...ever? If so, great. But I'd like to see its provenance...because there are many shells/bodies that are inadvertantly promoted as NOS, when in fact they're not. And here I'm not only refering to MGB's i.e. MKII wings and E-Type bonnets.
If you're really after a pull-handle car there's one for sale in this months MGE for £8,500ono [see page87]. It's advertised as in good condition, and that's for a complete fully operational car.
As Varsas wrote: "I'm still not sure I understand. In the advert for the blue car it says the shell is original. So if you competently restored the 'box of bits' you'd end up with something very similar to the blue car, except you've just spent a lot of time, effort and a fair wedge of money over and above what the blue one cost."
Varsas has hit the nail on the head. Even if we restored the boxes of bits we would still finish-up with a car no better than the blue car. What would be shocking, would be the final build cost; any suggestions anyone?
Lastly, if you're after an early show-winning car there's one for sale @ £16,500 on this very site. It's a well known car. To rebuild the £10K boxes of rusty crap to this same high standard is going to cost you significantly more than £6500. But hey, it's your money. If you want to throw it away; carry-on... http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/3378196.htm
Couldn't agree more with the above post.
When I said that I thought the boxes of bits were worth £1000 (to buy as a lump)that's because a large proportion of it will be scrap or need overhauling and you takes your chance. I have just completed a rebuild of an E Type and I know the costs involved and the E Type was a running and MOT'd car in the first place. By the time you have sorted the good parts from the rubbish, (does the engine, gearbox and drivetrain need a re-build?) I think you will be spending around £20K. Personally I don't see the value. But if this is a "special" car with history I suppose value is in the eye of the beholder.
When I said that I thought the boxes of bits were worth £1000 (to buy as a lump)that's because a large proportion of it will be scrap or need overhauling and you takes your chance. I have just completed a rebuild of an E Type and I know the costs involved and the E Type was a running and MOT'd car in the first place. By the time you have sorted the good parts from the rubbish, (does the engine, gearbox and drivetrain need a re-build?) I think you will be spending around £20K. Personally I don't see the value. But if this is a "special" car with history I suppose value is in the eye of the beholder.
It clearly is a new shell, it logically has to be a NOS shell being pull handle unless it is a modified heritage shell (which will be obvious on close inspection with welds etc.)
I disagree on your comment on nuts and bolts vehemently, you are looking at it far too superficially I have no idea if you have ever restored a car or not, but if you have you should know a lot of fasteners are not load bearing and are specialist items that cannot be replaced, simple and good example the screws that hold a midget dash in place or the window stops for MG doors, both look like a bolt but if you tried to buy them new you would find it impossible, they are not load bearing and are usually in good condition. I'm being pedantic because I know what you meant, you would start again with a new loom etc. (as shown in the pic) but the point is most people do a resto and throw everything old and grotty away, then discover it costs thousands to buy them again. Often fasteners can be cleaned up and if being a perfectionist replated.
However the nuts and bolts of the matter (badumptsh) is that the basic car is rare, it would need provenance (as mentioned with matching numbers) as if your not careful you would end up with parts wrong for the year and have a bitsa on your hands, but I maintain if the car is as good as it looks it could be a fantastic and unique car, no restored car will come close as the shell is genuinely new, that said it still needs to be well restored. Luckily MGB parts are very cheap and nowhere near E type costs (I speak as someone who came very close to handing over the money for a series 1.5 roadster a while back and stupidly scared myself off as I added up the cost of parts needed, I regret that now.)
I disagree on your comment on nuts and bolts vehemently, you are looking at it far too superficially I have no idea if you have ever restored a car or not, but if you have you should know a lot of fasteners are not load bearing and are specialist items that cannot be replaced, simple and good example the screws that hold a midget dash in place or the window stops for MG doors, both look like a bolt but if you tried to buy them new you would find it impossible, they are not load bearing and are usually in good condition. I'm being pedantic because I know what you meant, you would start again with a new loom etc. (as shown in the pic) but the point is most people do a resto and throw everything old and grotty away, then discover it costs thousands to buy them again. Often fasteners can be cleaned up and if being a perfectionist replated.
However the nuts and bolts of the matter (badumptsh) is that the basic car is rare, it would need provenance (as mentioned with matching numbers) as if your not careful you would end up with parts wrong for the year and have a bitsa on your hands, but I maintain if the car is as good as it looks it could be a fantastic and unique car, no restored car will come close as the shell is genuinely new, that said it still needs to be well restored. Luckily MGB parts are very cheap and nowhere near E type costs (I speak as someone who came very close to handing over the money for a series 1.5 roadster a while back and stupidly scared myself off as I added up the cost of parts needed, I regret that now.)
rallycross said:
Somebody text him and ask if he made a mistake on the price.
nice one rally cross...but you're too late...i've bought the hole kaboodle for £950!! 
...no, just kidding guys
it's funny, this is really down to what any of us believe is an appropriate price for purchase. restorations can be prohibitively expensive i.e. some e-types, most italian supercars...and we musn't mention aston martin db's. we are very lucky that the component availability and price for mgb's is of a price that's accessible to all. however, still not sure as to the price of this shell. given what's readily available from bmh in witney, what would i pay for an early shell in this condition; whether it's NOS or otherwise??
i can relate to oliver's position ref' shell pricing in that i'm a small'ish collector of very carefully chosen historic rallye plates. when this interest first kicked-off i'd be sat at auction like a mad-man buying every bloody plate i wanted, without realising i was potentially paying over-the-top. then one year at sandown there were three guys in front of me whose pockets were hugely-deep. one happily paying over £1000 for a particular liege-rome-liege plate. after this auction i came away realising that everything has it's place and it's price. i lost the plate as it was outside of my budget, but have since invested in many other cracking plates for this £1000.
well off now with trailer to collect NOS 1963 mgb shell; ciao
wildoliver said:
I think the point that has been missed is it is an original NOS pull handle shell.
It isn't rare, it's unique, the only original shells in equal condition will be new cars that ended up in museums, I would suggest there will be a mere handful of Pull handle roadsters in unused museum condition as opposed to restored (welded up shell) condition.
In other words a unique opportunity exists to make the rarest B in genuinely as new condition.
Hmm. A few years back someone built a new V12 E-type completely from NOS and got it registered with a new chassis number as a 1975 car. it's worth just the same as any other 1975 V12. I think the seller has an inflated view of the value. It might have cost him a packet, but that's his problem. I've been watching one MG on Ebay for six months now, and the seller can't seem to understand why it isn't selling, because every car has its value. Indeed, he's now put the price up £500. If it didn't sell before, it sure ain't going to sell now.It isn't rare, it's unique, the only original shells in equal condition will be new cars that ended up in museums, I would suggest there will be a mere handful of Pull handle roadsters in unused museum condition as opposed to restored (welded up shell) condition.
In other words a unique opportunity exists to make the rarest B in genuinely as new condition.
It's a funny old world as you could take anything down to it's sum of parts and even further to it's sum of materials and calculate value. Take things one step further, for example, the amount of steel there and how much that'd worth if you weighed it in, what is old steel now £180 per ton? so about £150 then. The extraordinary thing with worth, in other terms, is that that the steel of little relative value is bent and pressed into the shape of a rare door handled MGB and that warrants a greater price. Same with anything old and rare really. I suppose it's worth whatever someone is prepared to pay who wants a big kit to play with, even if you could buy an original one how many original models, stripped down to almost model kit form, are there around for you to play with. I have no idea what a fair price is for this selection of parts but it goes to show how much value is attached to something rare.
Agree with Lowdrag. Interestingly I know of some MKII Jaguars with similar histories to the E-Type; and for certain there are other models of same pedigree.
I understand Oliver's view in support of this shell's rarity. If it is a genuine NOS, never used, 'still wrapped in greased paper-type condition', then it is rare. The only issue being its' value and its' value in relation to some of the beautifully preserved MGB's that are out there and we all see at shows, rallies et al.
We have some similar discussion threads on PH at the moment questioning and trying to understand values, one being some of the critics questioning the D-Type to XKSS changeover project Lowdrag is currently undertaking [I have tagged this thread as the project is one of the most exciting taking place over 2011-2012 and can not wait for the updates]. Another resurrecting the old chestnut of "classic cars as investment"; this I dispair with. We are even back to the days of seeing so-called brokerage specialists and investment houses dedicated to the car market. Our cars should be there for the pleasure we recieve from them, and, in many many cases, give to others.
I understand Oliver's view in support of this shell's rarity. If it is a genuine NOS, never used, 'still wrapped in greased paper-type condition', then it is rare. The only issue being its' value and its' value in relation to some of the beautifully preserved MGB's that are out there and we all see at shows, rallies et al.
We have some similar discussion threads on PH at the moment questioning and trying to understand values, one being some of the critics questioning the D-Type to XKSS changeover project Lowdrag is currently undertaking [I have tagged this thread as the project is one of the most exciting taking place over 2011-2012 and can not wait for the updates]. Another resurrecting the old chestnut of "classic cars as investment"; this I dispair with. We are even back to the days of seeing so-called brokerage specialists and investment houses dedicated to the car market. Our cars should be there for the pleasure we recieve from them, and, in many many cases, give to others.
I absolutely do agree with lowdrag too (we share very similar tastes in cars btw!) if you were to restore and use that car then very quickly it's value would be identical to other cars of the same condition.
Sad thing is the shell has been kept too long really, this thread is proof of that, the only value it has is to a concourser (a sad end to any car in my opinion) or as a classic race car for someone with very deep pockets (and they do exist as one of the cars at this years stoneleigh show proved.) which makes it likely the shell will quickly lose it's value as it will get dinged about.
Sad thing is the shell has been kept too long really, this thread is proof of that, the only value it has is to a concourser (a sad end to any car in my opinion) or as a classic race car for someone with very deep pockets (and they do exist as one of the cars at this years stoneleigh show proved.) which makes it likely the shell will quickly lose it's value as it will get dinged about.
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