Learning to weld
Discussion
The front half of my mini is starting to look a bit sorry for itself so I want to repair it after summer, I hate paying garages to do work that I can do myself and I like to learn as many skills as I can.
What is the best way to learn to weld? I was thinking of getting a second hand mig and a load of bottles and steel and going from there, or is there a better way?
How much should I be looking to spend, and more importantly what should I be spending it on? I will need an angle grinder, clamps, bottles, etc, but are there any other expensive expenditures to consider?
Cheers
What is the best way to learn to weld? I was thinking of getting a second hand mig and a load of bottles and steel and going from there, or is there a better way?
How much should I be looking to spend, and more importantly what should I be spending it on? I will need an angle grinder, clamps, bottles, etc, but are there any other expensive expenditures to consider?
Cheers
The problem with what you have suggested is that if you don't know the theory behind what you're doing you'll never be able to teach yourself.
Your money would be better spent on a course or a decent book on welding.
Little things like when you're doing a tee joint the heat doesn't penetrate the flat piece as easily as the upright piece, same with a lap weld, in fact every weld has its little ideosycnracies that you need to know before you end up with what looks like a strong weld but is in fact hiding a poorly penetrated sparsly fused weld.
If you're adamant about not doing a course please buy a book, it'll help you avoid some of the pitfalls.
Your money would be better spent on a course or a decent book on welding.
Little things like when you're doing a tee joint the heat doesn't penetrate the flat piece as easily as the upright piece, same with a lap weld, in fact every weld has its little ideosycnracies that you need to know before you end up with what looks like a strong weld but is in fact hiding a poorly penetrated sparsly fused weld.
If you're adamant about not doing a course please buy a book, it'll help you avoid some of the pitfalls.
freecar said:
The problem with what you have suggested is that if you don't know the theory behind what you're doing you'll never be able to teach yourself.
Your money would be better spent on a course or a decent book on welding.
Little things like when you're doing a tee joint the heat doesn't penetrate the flat piece as easily as the upright piece, same with a lap weld, in fact every weld has its little ideosycnracies that you need to know before you end up with what looks like a strong weld but is in fact hiding a poorly penetrated sparsly fused weld.
If you're adamant about not doing a course please buy a book, it'll help you avoid some of the pitfalls.
I will defiantly be reading as much as I can before I start, I would be happy to do a course, and I am looking into other course available.Your money would be better spent on a course or a decent book on welding.
Little things like when you're doing a tee joint the heat doesn't penetrate the flat piece as easily as the upright piece, same with a lap weld, in fact every weld has its little ideosycnracies that you need to know before you end up with what looks like a strong weld but is in fact hiding a poorly penetrated sparsly fused weld.
If you're adamant about not doing a course please buy a book, it'll help you avoid some of the pitfalls.
I am doing this on my cortina, I bought myself a second hand mig welder as I figured if I got into it and I wanted to do more I'd get a bigger/ more tuneable welder but its been a good little thing
I practiced my welds on a sheet of steel that was what I was using on the cortina and tried differnt settings etc, It has taken some time to learn myslef but I do have some PDF's I can email you if you want to have a read into it
It is rewarding to see when your welds improve though!
I practiced my welds on a sheet of steel that was what I was using on the cortina and tried differnt settings etc, It has taken some time to learn myslef but I do have some PDF's I can email you if you want to have a read into it
It is rewarding to see when your welds improve though!
www.mig-welding.co.uk - all you need to know ... good tutorials and a forum as well.
Do a course if you can - I did one in the evenings. You get to learn a bit abuot the theory and can often make something you want/need before buying your own gear.
And you can nick loads of small bits of metal as well ...
You can get a decent single phase MIG machine for car stuff for well under £200.
Do a course if you can - I did one in the evenings. You get to learn a bit abuot the theory and can often make something you want/need before buying your own gear.
And you can nick loads of small bits of metal as well ...
You can get a decent single phase MIG machine for car stuff for well under £200.
Those welds don't look great although there is only one weld there, the rest is just melted metal on a sheet of steel. (no offence intended but a weld joins two pieces of metal by fusion, just running a bead of welding filler across a sheet has limited value when learning.)
The butt joint on that fill in panel doesn't look to be fused correctly, you can still see the outline of the weld once ground, not ideal. Also they are very "proud" on the panel meaning that the welder was set too cold.
As it is just cosmetic it's OK but if it were structural I'd be concerned.
That's one of the problems with learning on a mig set on your own, it's easy enough to join two bits of metal together and get relatively decent looking results but if you don't know truly how to inspect your work, you'll be working blind.
I learned on oxy-acetylene, then MMA and then MIG. You can't fake a gas weld, you can also watch the various stages of fusion until the fusion between parent materials and filler rod are perfect, which helps setting a MIG up.
Like I said, I intend no offence by this post, I'm just passing on the benefit of my experience.
The butt joint on that fill in panel doesn't look to be fused correctly, you can still see the outline of the weld once ground, not ideal. Also they are very "proud" on the panel meaning that the welder was set too cold.
As it is just cosmetic it's OK but if it were structural I'd be concerned.
That's one of the problems with learning on a mig set on your own, it's easy enough to join two bits of metal together and get relatively decent looking results but if you don't know truly how to inspect your work, you'll be working blind.
I learned on oxy-acetylene, then MMA and then MIG. You can't fake a gas weld, you can also watch the various stages of fusion until the fusion between parent materials and filler rod are perfect, which helps setting a MIG up.
Like I said, I intend no offence by this post, I'm just passing on the benefit of my experience.
i've learn't that the secret to good welding is a 'clean metal surface without impurities.
it will come good with practice and experience,you can hear when a weld(er) is working correctly,it makes a satisfying continual strong buzz and not a random spatter sound.the weld line should not be too proud of the work piece surface to ensure good penetration,a depression of the weld in a continual line is even better as this is a good sign that the weld has gone deep enough to be effective.
it will come good with practice and experience,you can hear when a weld(er) is working correctly,it makes a satisfying continual strong buzz and not a random spatter sound.the weld line should not be too proud of the work piece surface to ensure good penetration,a depression of the weld in a continual line is even better as this is a good sign that the weld has gone deep enough to be effective.
freecar said:
Those welds don't look great although there is only one weld there, the rest is just melted metal on a sheet of steel. (no offence intended but a weld joins two pieces of metal by fusion, just running a bead of welding filler across a sheet has limited value when learning.)
The butt joint on that fill in panel doesn't look to be fused correctly, you can still see the outline of the weld once ground, not ideal. Also they are very "proud" on the panel meaning that the welder was set too cold.
As it is just cosmetic it's OK but if it were structural I'd be concerned.
That's one of the problems with learning on a mig set on your own, it's easy enough to join two bits of metal together and get relatively decent looking results but if you don't know truly how to inspect your work, you'll be working blind.
I learned on oxy-acetylene, then MMA and then MIG. You can't fake a gas weld, you can also watch the various stages of fusion until the fusion between parent materials and filler rod are perfect, which helps setting a MIG up.
Like I said, I intend no offence by this post, I'm just passing on the benefit of my experience.
have tried gas welding which was ok, I don't mind criticism but what would recommend changing the 1/2 setting or the min and max? or am I overcompensating with the gas?The butt joint on that fill in panel doesn't look to be fused correctly, you can still see the outline of the weld once ground, not ideal. Also they are very "proud" on the panel meaning that the welder was set too cold.
As it is just cosmetic it's OK but if it were structural I'd be concerned.
That's one of the problems with learning on a mig set on your own, it's easy enough to join two bits of metal together and get relatively decent looking results but if you don't know truly how to inspect your work, you'll be working blind.
I learned on oxy-acetylene, then MMA and then MIG. You can't fake a gas weld, you can also watch the various stages of fusion until the fusion between parent materials and filler rod are perfect, which helps setting a MIG up.
Like I said, I intend no offence by this post, I'm just passing on the benefit of my experience.
I'm guessing it's a little hobby welder, going by your idea of changing settings. That is a lot of your problem, they're hard to get a decent weld with even when you can weld. If you can, try a really good mig, the difference is incredible. Teaching yourself to weld is doable, like in the end i could teach myself brain surgery, but getting taught by someone who knows what they are doing makes it a whole lot easier. 
Jimski said:
freecar said:
Those welds don't look great although there is only one weld there, the rest is just melted metal on a sheet of steel. (no offence intended but a weld joins two pieces of metal by fusion, just running a bead of welding filler across a sheet has limited value when learning.)
The butt joint on that fill in panel doesn't look to be fused correctly, you can still see the outline of the weld once ground, not ideal. Also they are very "proud" on the panel meaning that the welder was set too cold.
As it is just cosmetic it's OK but if it were structural I'd be concerned.
That's one of the problems with learning on a mig set on your own, it's easy enough to join two bits of metal together and get relatively decent looking results but if you don't know truly how to inspect your work, you'll be working blind.
I learned on oxy-acetylene, then MMA and then MIG. You can't fake a gas weld, you can also watch the various stages of fusion until the fusion between parent materials and filler rod are perfect, which helps setting a MIG up.
Like I said, I intend no offence by this post, I'm just passing on the benefit of my experience.
have tried gas welding which was ok, I don't mind criticism but what would recommend changing the 1/2 setting or the min and max? or am I overcompensating with the gas?The butt joint on that fill in panel doesn't look to be fused correctly, you can still see the outline of the weld once ground, not ideal. Also they are very "proud" on the panel meaning that the welder was set too cold.
As it is just cosmetic it's OK but if it were structural I'd be concerned.
That's one of the problems with learning on a mig set on your own, it's easy enough to join two bits of metal together and get relatively decent looking results but if you don't know truly how to inspect your work, you'll be working blind.
I learned on oxy-acetylene, then MMA and then MIG. You can't fake a gas weld, you can also watch the various stages of fusion until the fusion between parent materials and filler rod are perfect, which helps setting a MIG up.
Like I said, I intend no offence by this post, I'm just passing on the benefit of my experience.
Your welder probably doesn't have much in the way of adjustment, the easiest way would be to slow the wire feed down a touch and also your pace across the work, this should get more heat into the job (you should ideally see a nice even heat band all around the job) and help with the fusion.
80% of the fill in patch is fine, you got fusion no problems there but with not quite enough heat, when the weld toughened up either by virtue of the weld type changing (butt weld to outside corner for example) or the fit of the patch closing up and leaving no gap between the sheets, the heat becomes insufficient and fails to fuse the materials before the filler piles up.
The MIG welding forum does have some modifications that you can do to different model welders, mine has a mod for a euro torch on there as well as a fine current control addition! If there is a mod like this on the forum your welder will become a much better tool as most of the home MIG sets have very coarse adjustment. A lot of hobby welders also lack stable wire speed (mine included, I only bought it with the mods in mind!) which causes uneven welds and make it hard to get decent results, my welder needs an independent power supply to acheive stable wire feed! A professional welder will surprise you with its versatility, more adjustment means finer control!
I hope some of this ramble helps!
Spot on 'Freecar', was thinking along the same lines although I clearly know less about welding than you! I'm not seeing your typical blue-ish hue around 'Jimski's welds so I too would suggest higher current and lower feed. P.S. I had no idea people used CO2 as an inert shielding gas!
I used to have a little Clarke 100e (Machine Mart effort), which used to weld great in the past, but when I tried it again a few years back, I was useless. I went to night school, (£400) for 20-odd weeks and got C&G Part 1 in MIG. The big revelation was the improvement in welding when using a SERIOUS industrial quality machine. The little MIG went on eBay, and I bought (invested?) in a Portamig 185. Fantastic piece of kit, will weld all day long, although I guess you could say it should do at £600.
I wouldn’t spend £400 at night school again. I would buy the best machine I could on my budget, remembering the gas bottle rental, and ask a welder somewhere to get me and the machine started, on a beer token basis. Get loads of pieces of scrap and then weld, weld, weld. Butts, fillets, open corners, downwards, upwards, upside down etc… you need lots of practice, get some of the welders handbook books off Amazon, and that will tell you what your welds should look like. It’s easy to put weld metal ON the vehicle, the key is to weld through it. It will make sense after a few hours. Then get cracking on your car.
Tips
Even when you get good at welding (I’m getting there), do a few runs on some scrap before you start on the car again. The welder warms up, and gets stable, and it just seems to weld better, I’ve no idea why!
Cleanliness is key, always go back to sound metal.
A self-darkening helmet and a skull cap are compulsory in my mind.
I wouldn’t spend £400 at night school again. I would buy the best machine I could on my budget, remembering the gas bottle rental, and ask a welder somewhere to get me and the machine started, on a beer token basis. Get loads of pieces of scrap and then weld, weld, weld. Butts, fillets, open corners, downwards, upwards, upside down etc… you need lots of practice, get some of the welders handbook books off Amazon, and that will tell you what your welds should look like. It’s easy to put weld metal ON the vehicle, the key is to weld through it. It will make sense after a few hours. Then get cracking on your car.
Tips
Even when you get good at welding (I’m getting there), do a few runs on some scrap before you start on the car again. The welder warms up, and gets stable, and it just seems to weld better, I’ve no idea why!
Cleanliness is key, always go back to sound metal.
A self-darkening helmet and a skull cap are compulsory in my mind.
As above.
Do not waste your money on a hobby mig.
The only thing I can say they aren't bad for is sticking a patch over sills etc. For Mots, and even then don't expect a proper weld it's basically a step up from filler and newspaper.
Hobby migs have a tendency to blow holes in thin material and not have enough power to weld thick material, totally useless really, buy a good quality mig and it will be a versatile tool that will last you forever, I must admit I tend to use pub gas which is frowned on a little but I'm not after award winning welds just good solid welds.
That said I now don't mig at all I just spot-oxycet-arc weld. (Arc for very thick metal).
Do not waste your money on a hobby mig.
The only thing I can say they aren't bad for is sticking a patch over sills etc. For Mots, and even then don't expect a proper weld it's basically a step up from filler and newspaper.
Hobby migs have a tendency to blow holes in thin material and not have enough power to weld thick material, totally useless really, buy a good quality mig and it will be a versatile tool that will last you forever, I must admit I tend to use pub gas which is frowned on a little but I'm not after award winning welds just good solid welds.
That said I now don't mig at all I just spot-oxycet-arc weld. (Arc for very thick metal).
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