Classic Car MOT exclusion. (pre 1960)
Discussion
king stupid idea. a8hex said:
There was another thread here about the EU making life very difficult for classic cars, Breadvan looked through what the EU was actually saying and tended to suggest that as long as some testing was retained then the dire warnings that were being given wouldn't need to happen.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=57&t=1187860&mid=90714&nmt=Armageddon+for+modified+car+owners (needs reading right through to the end to get to the bits where someone actually interprets the whole directive instead of the rumours).I am opposed to the proposal removing the need for an MOT, however I recently bought a 1956 4.1 Humber Super Snipe, £77 to insure full comp, no MOT and no tax to pay for, even if I manage to do the 1500 miles for the year my total cost other than maintenance but including petrol should be less than £800, amazing
Le Mans Visitor said:
I agree. Basically there will be nothing to stop a 'barn find' deathtrap being allowed to be driven legally on the road. A very scary thought.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the removal of the MOT does not remove the requirement to comply with Construction and Use regulations to legally drive a car on the road. The fact that the car is not tested does not grant it exemption from meeting the MOT standard.So there will be something to stop a deathtrap being driven legally on the road, the same thing there always was. There just won't be the requirement for an annual test that the vehicle complies with those parts of C&U that the MOT checks.
Or do you read it differently from me, that any car over 50 years old will be able to be driven on the road irrespective of condition and the driver will be exempt from prosecution if it does not comply with C&U? I don't read it that way at all.
The problem with any law like this is that it has to be interpreted by the judicatory, and until that happens we wont know what the meaning and nuances of it are, to find out what it will actually entail we need it to first be tested, which predictably can only happen once it has been enforced... The same for the Modified cars law, we really do not know where the boundaries are until it can be tested, which while being great in some respects, really sucks when your not sure if it will effect you
onomatopoeia said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the removal of the MOT does not remove the requirement to comply with Construction and Use regulations to legally drive a car on the road. The fact that the car is not tested does not grant it exemption from meeting the MOT standard.
So there will be something to stop a deathtrap being driven legally on the road, the same thing there always was. There just won't be the requirement for an annual test that the vehicle complies with those parts of C&U that the MOT checks.
Or do you read it differently from me, that any car over 50 years old will be able to be driven on the road irrespective of condition and the driver will be exempt from prosecution if it does not comply with C&U? I don't read it that way at all.
How and who will determine whether a car is fit to be on the road? Roadworthy if you like.So there will be something to stop a deathtrap being driven legally on the road, the same thing there always was. There just won't be the requirement for an annual test that the vehicle complies with those parts of C&U that the MOT checks.
Or do you read it differently from me, that any car over 50 years old will be able to be driven on the road irrespective of condition and the driver will be exempt from prosecution if it does not comply with C&U? I don't read it that way at all.
Your interpretation may well be correct but in reality it will be very difficult to implement. Much simpler to retain the MOT requirement.
Agrispeed said:
The problem with any law like this is that it has to be interpreted by the judicatory, and until that happens we wont know what the meaning and nuances of it are, to find out what it will actually entail we need it to first be tested, which predictably can only happen once it has been enforced... The same for the Modified cars law, we really do not know where the boundaries are until it can be tested, which while being great in some respects, really sucks when your not sure if it will effect you
As per my previous post. Who has the technical knowledge to say that a classic car has been modified ?
I don't see this law as being enforceable on classics.
However I would welcome legislation that requires verification of modifications or upgrades before they can be sold to the public.
Presently any idiot can "develop" a modification and sell it without any independent assesment. Quite scary when you're talking about brakes and steering for example.
mph said:
As per my previous post.
Who has the technical knowledge to say that a classic car has been modified ?
I don't see this law as being enforceable on classics.
However I would welcome legislation that requires verification of modifications or upgrades before they can be sold to the public.
Presently any idiot can "develop" a modification and sell it without any independent assesment. Quite scary when you're talking about brakes and steering for example.
While I agree with your "any idiot" comment how to implement such regulation seems like a real challenge. Who has the technical knowledge to say that a classic car has been modified ?
I don't see this law as being enforceable on classics.
However I would welcome legislation that requires verification of modifications or upgrades before they can be sold to the public.
Presently any idiot can "develop" a modification and sell it without any independent assesment. Quite scary when you're talking about brakes and steering for example.
What is a modification? Any change from the OEM part? How do you verify this on the 30+ year old car? My newer TVR is only 21 years old and is probably harder to get parts for than the 35 year old one. Reason being that the older one uses more standard "classic" parts from Triumph TR's that are still sold as OEM by specialists. Does that mean that the parts manufactured by the specialists meet the original drawings and material specifications?
On the newer one if sensible substitutions aren't allowed then the cars wouldn't be on the road.
I think I might go and start lobbying for independent approval bodies, whilst I set myself up as such an animal.
"Modified cars law"? 
If we're referring to the recent farce with the EU allegedly dictating that in 6 weeks' time (ie by now) only unmodified cars will pass their MoT... It was the press utterly overreacting and spouting rubbish (with hindsight, they got some good practice in for the current 'gossip' about Jimmy Savile - for 'gossip' is all it was) and no such specific law exists now that didn't exist before the debacle occured.
Such as the Construction & Use regs (as other posters have said) - it's quite possible to have one's car pass an MoT when it doesn't comply with all the C&U Regs, which is also what others have alluded to above. The MoT is a basic safety check, and plenty goes unexamined.
I've also seen a 1958 Morris Oxford which will be a likely candidate for taking advantage of the pre-1960 MoT Exemption; it wasn't pretty (in terms of mechanical sympathy and potential safety issues), let's put it that way
.
If we're referring to the recent farce with the EU allegedly dictating that in 6 weeks' time (ie by now) only unmodified cars will pass their MoT... It was the press utterly overreacting and spouting rubbish (with hindsight, they got some good practice in for the current 'gossip' about Jimmy Savile - for 'gossip' is all it was) and no such specific law exists now that didn't exist before the debacle occured.
Such as the Construction & Use regs (as other posters have said) - it's quite possible to have one's car pass an MoT when it doesn't comply with all the C&U Regs, which is also what others have alluded to above. The MoT is a basic safety check, and plenty goes unexamined.
I've also seen a 1958 Morris Oxford which will be a likely candidate for taking advantage of the pre-1960 MoT Exemption; it wasn't pretty (in terms of mechanical sympathy and potential safety issues), let's put it that way
.john wyatt said:
I am opposed to the proposal removing the need for an MOT, however I recently bought a 1956 4.1 Humber Super Snipe, £77 to insure full comp, no MOT and no tax to pay for, even if I manage to do the 1500 miles for the year my total cost other than maintenance but including petrol should be less than £800, amazing
And with the MOT your total cost would be £850 - still amazing no?Facetious - I know you are opposed to the exemption.
Some classic mags are reporting an increase in pre-60 cars being advertised - wonder why?
Absolutely, just making a point over how inexpensive it can be to run a classic, I manage a large fleet of Classics and they will most certainly continue to go for a test every year, I have already spoken to one old clown who has been waiting to put his old heap of a Hillman on the road rather than do the tyres and brakes it desperately needs, the issue to me is you would quickly be picked up on a car with an MOT, but the police/vosa? Could never be in a position to pull over and check a car thoroughly for being roadworthy
Scary thought, how are the standard of vehicles on the road controlled then. Granted classic owners are generally more knowledgable with a spanner, but also i've only ever encountered the extent of filler, ply, chicken wire and other ghastly bodges on old projects thrown together. If they accept classic enthusiasts are a minority who use them mainly for recreational pleasure why not re-instate the 25 year tax exemption. There are a lot of cars that you have to pay tax on to have sat in the garage that left the factory twelve years before I was born FFS! Hardly reasonable...
It struck me that I hadn't seen an official confirmation of this, so had a look at FBHVC
[/url]http://fbhvc.co.uk/2012/11/15/historic-vehicle-mot-exemptions/[/url]
Summary, from 18/11/12 cars manufactured before the end of 1959 are MOT exempt, you can still choose to have it MOTd, if it fails 'the keeper has a responsibility to ensure they do not use that vehicle on a public road as it is not in a roadworthy condition'.
Don't shoot the messenger, read the docs if you disagree
[/url]http://fbhvc.co.uk/2012/11/15/historic-vehicle-mot-exemptions/[/url]
Summary, from 18/11/12 cars manufactured before the end of 1959 are MOT exempt, you can still choose to have it MOTd, if it fails 'the keeper has a responsibility to ensure they do not use that vehicle on a public road as it is not in a roadworthy condition'.
Don't shoot the messenger, read the docs if you disagree
Just noticed that it is written on the VED renewal of my 1991 Astra GTE - (which isn't pre 1960) that cars made before 1960 are exempt from MOT.
Must be official then, that Barn find wrecks can be driven on the road with no brakes, rotten structures and perished tyres.
I wonder what mindless, government offical came up with this stupid idea.
Must be official then, that Barn find wrecks can be driven on the road with no brakes, rotten structures and perished tyres.
I wonder what mindless, government offical came up with this stupid idea.
Le Mans Visitor said:
Just noticed that it is written on the VED renewal of my 1991 Astra GTE - (which isn't pre 1960) that cars made before 1960 are exempt from MOT.
Must be official then, that Barn find wrecks can be driven on the road with no brakes, rotten structures and perished tyres........
WRONG! Must be official then, that Barn find wrecks can be driven on the road with no brakes, rotten structures and perished tyres........
They still have to be in a road worthy condition!
If you get stopped by the Police or have an accident due to the vehicle being used whilst in an unroadworthy condition then you'll be in a whole load of trouble! - even with an MOT exemption.
The requirement for an MOT and for a vehicle to be in a roadworthy condition are two separate pieces of legislation!
Trying to argue that you weren't aware of the faults will not be any excuse as it is up to the driver to ensure that the vehicle is roadworthy.
Added to this, there is nothing to stop you having the vehicle MOT'd every year still, for peace of mind, even though the Law doesn't require it.
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