Who would use an old BMW 635csi as a daily...?
Discussion
I have an offer on the table to swap out of my 02 e39 530d Sport auto - no cash either way - for a very tidy 1986/C reg 635csi, an appreciating classic, for sure.
Many would argue that it sounds a bit daft, and at the moment I'm still considering who's getting the better side of the deal. His car is a particularly nice unrestored two owner example with original wings and is shod with the correct tyres and wheels, Alpine white with blue leather. I can have it inspected on the ramps this weekend if it's of interest.
Coincidently, it's come at a time when I've been pining after one, the old 6 has to be one of my favourite cars of all time. I have every piece of literature on them yet have never got round to owning one. Thing is though, this would be no museum piece; it would be pressed into service from the off and used as intended in modern traffic. Performance is nice but the brakes were always pretty wooden on these. I do have an old A4 tdi Avant as the hack but the 635 would replace the 530d (I don't need or want two diesels anymore) and would be used to the same effect. The plan was to keep the 5 for now, take it to Le Mans in June next year and then perhaps swap it for an E46 Alpina B3 when I get back. Now I'm in the midst of email-tennis with the guy with the 6, who's over in Scotland, it's thrown me a little. If I don't want to do the deal, he'll put the 6 on ebay next week and I'd imagine it'll sell well.
Has anybody else done similar? I have a 38 y.o Austin Allegro in the garage, tax it only in the summer and wouldn't dream of using that as a daily (there are a few reasons for that), I'm trying to justify how a 26 y.o 635 would be suitable. The thing would live outside and I'd hate to see it deteriorate.
Any thoughts?
Many would argue that it sounds a bit daft, and at the moment I'm still considering who's getting the better side of the deal. His car is a particularly nice unrestored two owner example with original wings and is shod with the correct tyres and wheels, Alpine white with blue leather. I can have it inspected on the ramps this weekend if it's of interest.
Coincidently, it's come at a time when I've been pining after one, the old 6 has to be one of my favourite cars of all time. I have every piece of literature on them yet have never got round to owning one. Thing is though, this would be no museum piece; it would be pressed into service from the off and used as intended in modern traffic. Performance is nice but the brakes were always pretty wooden on these. I do have an old A4 tdi Avant as the hack but the 635 would replace the 530d (I don't need or want two diesels anymore) and would be used to the same effect. The plan was to keep the 5 for now, take it to Le Mans in June next year and then perhaps swap it for an E46 Alpina B3 when I get back. Now I'm in the midst of email-tennis with the guy with the 6, who's over in Scotland, it's thrown me a little. If I don't want to do the deal, he'll put the 6 on ebay next week and I'd imagine it'll sell well.
Has anybody else done similar? I have a 38 y.o Austin Allegro in the garage, tax it only in the summer and wouldn't dream of using that as a daily (there are a few reasons for that), I'm trying to justify how a 26 y.o 635 would be suitable. The thing would live outside and I'd hate to see it deteriorate.
Any thoughts?
It doesn't sound wholly daft; after all the classics you could choose, a 635CSi is one of the most usable. However, you mention that you'd be keeping outside and wouldn't want it to deteriorate - well, best be prepared to spend lots of money chasing rust around, then, as the E24 was one of those cars that suffered badly from rot. Using it every day through the winter on salty roads will only make the problem even worse, I'm afraid. As a daily, I think I'd stick with the E39 personally; a 530d Sport is one of those 'answer to everything' cars, and does so many jobs very well. Although it'll be less characterful than the 6, I think there's a chance you might find yourself wishing you hadn't chopped it in.
Scrof said:
It doesn't sound wholly daft; after all the classics you could choose, a 635CSi is one of the most usable. However, you mention that you'd be keeping outside and wouldn't want it to deteriorate - well, best be prepared to spend lots of money chasing rust around, then, as the E24 was one of those cars that suffered badly from rot. Using it every day through the winter on salty roads will only make the problem even worse, I'm afraid. As a daily, I think I'd stick with the E39 personally; a 530d Sport is one of those 'answer to everything' cars, and does so many jobs very well. Although it'll be less characterful than the 6, I think there's a chance you might find yourself wishing you hadn't chopped it in.
That's exactly what's at the back of my mind. I'm pretty p*ssed off at the moment; the 635 is relatively cheap - it's a couple of grand, pennies compared to what some people spend on horseless carriages here, yet right now money is tight and I can't really commit to it unless I get rid of one. It would certainly be bought on a whim with the heart not the head. Kind of wishing the carrot had never been dangled...
ajb85 said:
Scrof said:
It doesn't sound wholly daft; after all the classics you could choose, a 635CSi is one of the most usable. However, you mention that you'd be keeping outside and wouldn't want it to deteriorate - well, best be prepared to spend lots of money chasing rust around, then, as the E24 was one of those cars that suffered badly from rot. Using it every day through the winter on salty roads will only make the problem even worse, I'm afraid. As a daily, I think I'd stick with the E39 personally; a 530d Sport is one of those 'answer to everything' cars, and does so many jobs very well. Although it'll be less characterful than the 6, I think there's a chance you might find yourself wishing you hadn't chopped it in.
That's exactly what's at the back of my mind. I'm pretty p*ssed off at the moment; the 635 is relatively cheap - it's a couple of grand, pennies compared to what some people spend on horseless carriages here, yet right now money is tight and I can't really commit to it unless I get rid of one. It would certainly be bought on a whim with the heart not the head. Kind of wishing the carrot had never been dangled...
Without doubt, a 6er is a very usable classic. But whether you'd want to subject it to everyday use is another matter, especially over winter.
And you say it's on original wheels and rubber: that's not a good thing! These were fitted with metric wheels as standard and the tyres cost a fortune (circa £350 plus vodka and tonic per corner) and the tyre technology is pretty old hat. If you buy one as a daily, I'd strongly recommend getting imperial wheels and modern rubber fitted.
And you'd be doing the right thing getting it checked over. Make sure its a specialist who knows their onions.
I've had two sixers - the first an ok example that was used as a daily (albeit garaged) and the second was a lovely garage queen for high days and holidays. Beautiful old things and very comfortable, but be prepared for regular expenditure to keep it running well. They're not expensive to run, IME, but they do need regular routine maintenance at this age.
If I were you, I'd stick with the e39 until after winter and then consider making the switch come Spingtime.
ETA: any excuse for a bit of gratuitous picture whoring. Here's my last one. Much missed....
Edited by Gruber on Thursday 6th December 11:05
I'll echo what the previous posters said.
BMWs of that era are very usable cars still on a daily basis. All the non-bodywork stuff is very easy to maintain and (IMHO) very cheap too. The bodywork (esp. the front wings) will suffer very quickly though, esp. if you don't wash it a lot.
I'd go for it though. Good E24s are worth a lot more than good E39s. And you only live once
BMWs of that era are very usable cars still on a daily basis. All the non-bodywork stuff is very easy to maintain and (IMHO) very cheap too. The bodywork (esp. the front wings) will suffer very quickly though, esp. if you don't wash it a lot.
I'd go for it though. Good E24s are worth a lot more than good E39s. And you only live once
Gruber said:
Yes, I'd be wise to give it a miss. It just seems like a good one for not a lot of money.
Just had a quick peak at www.4starclassics.com, if it can be brought to a similar standard as their examples of 635s, it's anybody's guess what it could be worth one day. Whether or not people are actually picking up the phone for a £10,000 635 is however debatable!
Hey, may not be much help but I run an '89 944 as a daily, and it's utterly fine.
I don't know anything about old BMW 6's (apart from the fact that they are lovely), but I'd guess that the rust situation is similar to that of 944's. They are known to rust, but the people who own rusty ones aren't the people who are into applying rustproof. Rust proofing technologies have come on MASSIVELY in the last 20 years, and an annual anointing with something like Bilt Hamber's S50 will stand you in very good stead indeed.
Oli.
I don't know anything about old BMW 6's (apart from the fact that they are lovely), but I'd guess that the rust situation is similar to that of 944's. They are known to rust, but the people who own rusty ones aren't the people who are into applying rustproof. Rust proofing technologies have come on MASSIVELY in the last 20 years, and an annual anointing with something like Bilt Hamber's S50 will stand you in very good stead indeed.
Oli.
ajb85 said:
Stunning.
Yes, I'd be wise to give it a miss. It just seems like a good one for not a lot of money.
Just had a quick peak at www.4starclassics.com, if it can be brought to a similar standard as their examples of 635s, it's anybody's guess what it could be worth one day. Whether or not people are actually picking up the phone for a £10,000 635 is however debatable!
The market for really good 635s rose quite quickly a couple of years ago and then hasn't really moved on since, so my view is that they've peaked for the time being. Yes, I'd be wise to give it a miss. It just seems like a good one for not a lot of money.
Just had a quick peak at www.4starclassics.com, if it can be brought to a similar standard as their examples of 635s, it's anybody's guess what it could be worth one day. Whether or not people are actually picking up the phone for a £10,000 635 is however debatable!
What mileage has your white one done? And does it have FSH with people who know what they're doing?
Gruber said:
What mileage has your white one done? And does it have FSH with people who know what they're doing?
It's identical, inside and out, to this one: http://www.motodrome.co.uk/#/bmw/4568115720 and a couple of grand cheaper!Mileage I am told is a genuine 130,000. Inherited from his father who was the second owner, bought used in 1992. Servicing is consistent up until being garaged in 2004 (so I dare say the TRX tyres are cracked and generally tossed...). My intrigue basically is that it sounds a very original car.
I don't think that you could not go for it. Many modern cars are less reliable than older cars and there was a good level of build quality coming out of Germany in the 80's.
Providing it turns out to be a nice, sound car go for it. Think how excited you'd be when picking it up, looking at it outside your house. You know what to do.
Providing it turns out to be a nice, sound car go for it. Think how excited you'd be when picking it up, looking at it outside your house. You know what to do.
ajb85 said:
It's identical, inside and out, to this one: http://www.motodrome.co.uk/#/bmw/4568115720 and a couple of grand cheaper!
Mileage I am told is a genuine 130,000. Inherited from his father who was the second owner, bought used in 1992. Servicing is consistent up until being garaged in 2004 (so I dare say the TRX tyres are cracked and generally tossed...). My intrigue basically is that it sounds a very original car.
So it hasn't really been used since 2004?Mileage I am told is a genuine 130,000. Inherited from his father who was the second owner, bought used in 1992. Servicing is consistent up until being garaged in 2004 (so I dare say the TRX tyres are cracked and generally tossed...). My intrigue basically is that it sounds a very original car.
I've found that the M30 engines in these really benefit for gentle regular use - they don't much like standing. So if you go for it, be prepared for it to be a bit rough to start with.
Also, over 100k, they can start to sound rather tappety at the top end. This is actually due to cam wear, caused by oil starvation to the top end because banjo bolts break and the oil spray bar works loose. If caught in time, it's not a hugely expensive to put right, but worth having a specialist listen to it.
And if it has been standing, it's likely that the rubber bushes in the suspension and steering have started to break down and will deteriorate pretty quickly once it starts being used again. Often this manifests itself in a wheel wobble at 55mph-ish and under breaking. Again, not massively expensive to sort out, but it all adds up.
One cosmetic thing to think about is seats... crazy as it sounds, nobody seems to want cars with cloth seats or comfort seats. The leather sport seats (like the ones in that Motodrome car) are the ones to go for, given the choice. Very supportive and very comfortable.
And of course, check for rust. Check the inner front wings as well as the outers. And around the screens and around the light fittings.
Great cars though!
Scrof said:
Gorgeous 6er, Gruber. Ta for sharing!
Thanks chaps. Sadly no longer mine, but much missed.We took it down to the Dordogne a couple of years ago - absolutely brilliant cruiser for the autoroutes and so on. And surprisingly economical if you pootle along - I'm sure we saw high-20s on a gentle bimble along the Routes Nationale.
I ran a 1973 2002tii as my daily around 14 years ago (so it was pretty much the same age then as the 635 is now). The biggest problem was rust - 2 Scottish winters wrecked the nicely restored bodywork - I should have waxolyled it thoroughly and cleaned off the salt more often.
The next biggest problem was getting spare parts in time to keep the car on the road - I had to buy an old heap Vauxhall to keep me on the road while I waited 3 weeks for a new cylinder head to be delivered.
The next biggest problem was getting spare parts in time to keep the car on the road - I had to buy an old heap Vauxhall to keep me on the road while I waited 3 weeks for a new cylinder head to be delivered.
Wild Rumpus said:
I ran a 1973 2002tii as my daily around 14 years ago (so it was pretty much the same age then as the 635 is now). The biggest problem was rust - 2 Scottish winters wrecked the nicely restored bodywork - I should have waxolyled it thoroughly and cleaned off the salt more often.
The next biggest problem was getting spare parts in time to keep the car on the road - I had to buy an old heap Vauxhall to keep me on the road while I waited 3 weeks for a new cylinder head to be delivered.
I think your second problem might now have been solved (for cars of the 635 era, anyway).The next biggest problem was getting spare parts in time to keep the car on the road - I had to buy an old heap Vauxhall to keep me on the road while I waited 3 weeks for a new cylinder head to be delivered.
I've found the parts availability to be excellent: there are a few good breakers around, but even better there's now BMW's own "Classic" parts service. They seem able to get hold of a lot of parts within 24 hours, and even the stuff that needs to be ordered from Germany arrives within a week.
279 said:
Couple of grand cheaper than that £5000 example, so about £3k odd.
In which case how much is the E39 up for? I'd have thought a late 530d would sell all day long at that sort of money?
My 530d isn't for sale. The car came to me in p/x, and, within the deal, it doesn't stand me a lot of money in relation to its realistic trade value. It's done 156k and if I were to retail it it'd want the front and back bumpers painting. Perhaps it might be worth £3,500 to go, £4,000 on a good day. To swap, the 635 would stand me what the 530d did last year when it came to me (we'll rule out the cost of maintenance) and is potentially worth a great deal more, so unless this 6 is an absolute rotter, it has to be considered as something of a good investment. Further to that, in the long run I'd be more happily inclined to spend money on reconditioning bits and pieces on the 6 than I would having to put injectors and other associated diesel gremlins right on the 5. I'm actually starting to think a 530d of this age and mileage could cost more to keep on the road than the 26 year old 6! It almost seems like a good time to get rid. The problem I have is questioning the suitability of the car. I'd love to have both, but as a straight forward cash buy the chap would want considerably more off me than what I have in my 5 series, so the only financially viable option to me is to simply swap keys.In which case how much is the E39 up for? I'd have thought a late 530d would sell all day long at that sort of money?
Edited by ajb85 on Thursday 6th December 12:36
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