What will be a classic and what wont?
Discussion
..time for my frequent rant about the classic car press being stuck in a permanent 60s and 70s time warp. I just dont get it as so many cars made back then were, frankly, crap!
So, what do people think from the 80s and 90s will finally crack through that classic car ceiling and make it as a bona fida classic? I really hope some of them do, as IMHO cars from mid 80s onwards are generally so much more driveable than the earlier lot, rust less, but are still simple enough not to cost loads to keep on the road. will stuff like the Clio Williams get idolised as much in 10 years as Escort mk2s do now?
To be fair a lot of 80's & 90's cars are already perceived as classics and have enjoyed a remarkable rise in values in recent years (eg: RS500, E30 M3 Evo Sport, Integrale Evo 2, various limited run 911 models etc.), but this one's time must surely come soon... Good ones have never really dropped below 20 - 25k.
Whale tail Porsches (in white!!)
XR3i (also White)
Cossie anythings
Any TVR from the period
Audi Quattro
Early Golf GTIs
Renault 5 (esp Gordini)
Most of these cars are already being considered as future classics anyway.
Anything that you hankered after, but was just that bit beyond your reach will have some sort of following.
What interests me in all this though is what effect the price of fuel is going to have, long term, on the classic market. I suspect that, in my lifetime, the cost of fuel will have a great effect on the way we travel and what we travel in.
Imagine if the cost of petrol was such that cars doing, say, 15mpg were just uneconomical to use at all. What effect would that have on the number of quattros and whale tail porches etc that find their way into the garages of people who keep them as interesting weekend cars etc?
Just musing I suppose
XR3i (also White)
Cossie anythings
Any TVR from the period
Audi Quattro
Early Golf GTIs
Renault 5 (esp Gordini)
Most of these cars are already being considered as future classics anyway.
Anything that you hankered after, but was just that bit beyond your reach will have some sort of following.
What interests me in all this though is what effect the price of fuel is going to have, long term, on the classic market. I suspect that, in my lifetime, the cost of fuel will have a great effect on the way we travel and what we travel in.
Imagine if the cost of petrol was such that cars doing, say, 15mpg were just uneconomical to use at all. What effect would that have on the number of quattros and whale tail porches etc that find their way into the garages of people who keep them as interesting weekend cars etc?
Just musing I suppose
Astacus said:
Whale tail Porsches (in white!!)
XR3i (also White)
Cossie anythings
Any TVR from the period
Audi Quattro
Early Golf GTIs
Renault 5 (esp Gordini)
Most of these cars are already being considered as future classics anyway.
Anything that you hankered after, but was just that bit beyond your reach will have some sort of following.
What interests me in all this though is what effect the price of fuel is going to have, long term, on the classic market. I suspect that, in my lifetime, the cost of fuel will have a great effect on the way we travel and what we travel in.
Imagine if the cost of petrol was such that cars doing, say, 15mpg were just uneconomical to use at all. What effect would that have on the number of quattros and whale tail porches etc that find their way into the garages of people who keep them as interesting weekend cars etc?
Just musing I suppose
I would consider them all classics. I agree about the focus on 60's and 70's cars - it sometimes feels that the classic car world is frozen in 1995.XR3i (also White)
Cossie anythings
Any TVR from the period
Audi Quattro
Early Golf GTIs
Renault 5 (esp Gordini)
Most of these cars are already being considered as future classics anyway.
Anything that you hankered after, but was just that bit beyond your reach will have some sort of following.
What interests me in all this though is what effect the price of fuel is going to have, long term, on the classic market. I suspect that, in my lifetime, the cost of fuel will have a great effect on the way we travel and what we travel in.
Imagine if the cost of petrol was such that cars doing, say, 15mpg were just uneconomical to use at all. What effect would that have on the number of quattros and whale tail porches etc that find their way into the garages of people who keep them as interesting weekend cars etc?
Just musing I suppose
To be honest, I believe a classic is in the eye of the beholder, if that's the right phrase. As far as I'm concerned a classic is just a nice car (not necessarily a good one) with soul, something that sort of talks to you.
Obviously, what is a nice car and what isn't is up to the individual. Some people think all of BL's produce was utter s
te and that they're stuff aren't classics. However, I like them so I do consider Allegros, Marinas, etc. to be classics. Some people go further and bestow classic status upon a 1983 Datsun Sunny, but I think they are dull, soulless and horrible.
The reason more recent cars aren't becoming classics is because they have no character. BL cars, crap or not, had character (I think so anyway) but Corsas, Mondeos and Saxos don't.
Every so often there is a pearl amongst the turds, though and there are a number of post-1980 cars that are considered classics. Off the top of my head I can give you the Mk. Golf GTI, the Ferrari F40, the Audi Quattro, the Escort Cosworth and the MG RV8. If there are cars you think deserve classic status give it to them.
A classic is what you make it.
By the way, does anyone else think the phrase 'future classic' is stupid. If something possesses classic qualities why wait another ten years to actually make it a classic.
Obviously, what is a nice car and what isn't is up to the individual. Some people think all of BL's produce was utter s
te and that they're stuff aren't classics. However, I like them so I do consider Allegros, Marinas, etc. to be classics. Some people go further and bestow classic status upon a 1983 Datsun Sunny, but I think they are dull, soulless and horrible.The reason more recent cars aren't becoming classics is because they have no character. BL cars, crap or not, had character (I think so anyway) but Corsas, Mondeos and Saxos don't.
Every so often there is a pearl amongst the turds, though and there are a number of post-1980 cars that are considered classics. Off the top of my head I can give you the Mk. Golf GTI, the Ferrari F40, the Audi Quattro, the Escort Cosworth and the MG RV8. If there are cars you think deserve classic status give it to them.
A classic is what you make it.
By the way, does anyone else think the phrase 'future classic' is stupid. If something possesses classic qualities why wait another ten years to actually make it a classic.
It's been said above, but I feel I am driving a classic every time I fire up my 1999 TVR Chimaera. Old fashioned yet wacky interior, 1950s Rover V8 (Buick) engine, tubular steel chassis, but fast and powerful and much loved by the British public.
On a run around Norfolk last summer my navy blue Chimaera attracted more interest than any other car, which surprised me. It was by far the cheapest car there - it was in the company of 8 Ferraris, 3 Lamborghini spiders, an Aston Martin convertible, a 911 Turbo, and a Lotus Esprit.
On a run around Norfolk last summer my navy blue Chimaera attracted more interest than any other car, which surprised me. It was by far the cheapest car there - it was in the company of 8 Ferraris, 3 Lamborghini spiders, an Aston Martin convertible, a 911 Turbo, and a Lotus Esprit.
Re the point above about the price of petrol and how it will change transport. It may reduce the use of daily classics but most classics are already on limited mileage policies and even if you double, triple or quadruple the price of petrol, it wouldn't reduce the minimal mileage these cars are used for.
Pistom said:
Re the point above about the price of petrol and how it will change transport. It may reduce the use of daily classics but most classics are already on limited mileage policies and even if you double, triple or quadruple the price of petrol, it wouldn't reduce the minimal mileage these cars are used for.
Exactly - I often wonder why some TVR owners doing 2000 miles a year get hung up about mpg, and seem to want to spend large sums putting a taller 5th or 6th gear into the box. They are missing the point, surely? I however am going to have to increase my 5000 mile a year classic policy - already at 4800 after 8 months and having too much fun!!
The main driver of what is thought of as a classic is the emotion and sentiment attached to it. Success in Motorsport, association with romantic or famous characters also adds to this.
A DB5 would always be a classic but it's the James Bond link that has put prices where they are. Volvo 1800S's always see a hike in prices after reruns of the saint. Look what Gene Hunt did to Quattro prices. E-types Drawing comparisons with D-types. The list goes on.
Then if a car is special enough in its own right it will gain classic status.
The reason the classic car scene is stuck in the 60s though is because that was an era when almost every car had some outstanding character. I drive my TR6 today and am amazed a mass car manufacturer could build such an enjoyable car and sell it for so little. I'm not fortunate enough to own an E-type but the same is true with that.
Fast forward to the 80s and 90s and those characteristics had gone. Drive an XJS and it's lovely but dull, get into an MX5 which is a better car than the TR6 in every measurable way but the level of joy isn't there.
A DB5 would always be a classic but it's the James Bond link that has put prices where they are. Volvo 1800S's always see a hike in prices after reruns of the saint. Look what Gene Hunt did to Quattro prices. E-types Drawing comparisons with D-types. The list goes on.
Then if a car is special enough in its own right it will gain classic status.
The reason the classic car scene is stuck in the 60s though is because that was an era when almost every car had some outstanding character. I drive my TR6 today and am amazed a mass car manufacturer could build such an enjoyable car and sell it for so little. I'm not fortunate enough to own an E-type but the same is true with that.
Fast forward to the 80s and 90s and those characteristics had gone. Drive an XJS and it's lovely but dull, get into an MX5 which is a better car than the TR6 in every measurable way but the level of joy isn't there.
The Alpine GTA is a car that proves that no matter how good or special a car is, if it has the wrong badge on, it doesn't get mass classic recognition.
The Brits just don't get Renault and Alpine was one of them old Talbots weren't they?
I can't think of a car from that period that I'd rather own than an immaculate GTA and you can get the best in the UK for less than £10K!!!
On paper, the car is reasonably quick but in practice, the power delivery makes it feel even quicker yet you can get running examples for the price of a rough MGB.
The Brits just don't get Renault and Alpine was one of them old Talbots weren't they?
I can't think of a car from that period that I'd rather own than an immaculate GTA and you can get the best in the UK for less than £10K!!!
On paper, the car is reasonably quick but in practice, the power delivery makes it feel even quicker yet you can get running examples for the price of a rough MGB.
Pistom said:
The Alpine GTA is a car that proves that no matter how good or special a car is, if it has the wrong badge on, it doesn't get mass classic recognition.
The Brits just don't get Renault and Alpine was one of them old Talbots weren't they?
I can't think of a car from that period that I'd rather own than an immaculate GTA and you can get the best in the UK for less than £10K!!!
On paper, the car is reasonably quick but in practice, the power delivery makes it feel even quicker yet you can get running examples for the price of a rough MGB.
I owned one for about 5years. Toured Europe, did track days, wonderfull car. Until it caught fire, anyway. Probably have another one day - a lot cheaper and easier to repair than the Esprit!The Brits just don't get Renault and Alpine was one of them old Talbots weren't they?
I can't think of a car from that period that I'd rather own than an immaculate GTA and you can get the best in the UK for less than £10K!!!
On paper, the car is reasonably quick but in practice, the power delivery makes it feel even quicker yet you can get running examples for the price of a rough MGB.
En France a LHD one starts at about 25000 euro.....
tapkaJohnD said:
Having owned one, I always thought that the Isuzu Piazza (US-Impulse) would be one - designed by Guigiaro, 2+2, good lines, good perfomance, good to drive. But it never caught on.
John
Only 24 left on the road now in the UK it seems
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