Sealed beam headlamps

[drive2tractors]

I need to replace the sealed beam units in my P5 3.0 Rover, does anyone know if these would be correct even though they are from an Mini supplier?
http://m-parts.co.uk/shop/index.php?route=product/...
I believe they were a pretty universal part but the Lucas ones I have seem no longer available,
Ta d2t

[nta16]

if in the Rover you have a 7" sealed beam with three pins so the wiring socket has three connectors then yes it should be right (but I 'd check with the club or parts books)

you will need to change both or it'll look very odd and the one you've linked to looks a just a little expensive for a H4 conversion

however it looks like the 7" sealed beam may still be available, the price looks correct too, you'd again want to buy a set or the present one may look dull and light dull compared to the new one, ring or email to check - http://www.mgbhive.co.uk/lights.html

ETA:
19 - 13H3471A Sealed Beam Unit - £7.95

and you'd need the without pilot (side light) kit if you want to go to H4 'conversion'
20 - WIPAC Halogen Conversion Kit C/B - £34.50

Edited by nta16 on Wednesday 24th July 10:42

[NotNormal]

Not sure if its of use to you - http://bullmotifminispares.com/1880/headlight_asse...

[drive2tractors]

nta16 said:

if in the Rover you have a 7" sealed beam with three pins so the wiring socket has three connectors then yes it should be right (but I 'd check with the club or parts books)

you will need to change both or it'll look very odd and the one you've linked to looks a just a little expensive for a H4 conversion

however it looks like the 7" sealed beam may still be available, the price looks correct too, you'd again want to buy a set or the present one may look dull and light dull compared to the new one, ring or email to check - http://www.mgbhive.co.uk/lights.html

ETA:
19 - 13H3471A Sealed Beam Unit - £7.95

and you'd need the without pilot (side light) kit if you want to go to H4 'conversion'
20 - WIPAC Halogen Conversion Kit C/B - £34.50

Edited by nta16 on Wednesday 24th July 10:42

Thanks for that, I've gone for the Halogen conversions which are on offer at £25.99 each. They list the originals but are not able to get them anymore!

Gratuitous photo:



Thanks for the help!
d2t

[nta16]

drive2tractors said:

Thanks for that, I've gone for the Halogen conversions which are on offer at £25.99 each.

hold the bus, I hope you mean £26 for a kit of two lights !

drive2tractors said:

They list the originals but are not able to get them anymore!

they should not list a price but something like 'NLA' if you mean the MGBHive

drive2tractors said:

Gratuitous photo:

looks like a 3 litre saloon, I wonder if you know the 'character' that now runs Ely Services (used to? also run Red Hat Rovers?)

drive2tractors said:

Thanks for the help!

no problem, I've a mate that's just completing/ed a partial rebuild of a P5B so I know some of the parts Rover (over) engineered but a few parts look common to other British cars of the period

[drive2tractors]

I assume I won't need to add a relay if all the wattages are the same?
d2t

[nta16]

drive2tractors said:

I assume I won't need to add a relay if all the wattages are the same?
d2t

no not at all, unless your wiring or switches are in poorer condition then two relays and the wires would help and make the lights brighter

some say you need these relays regardless but they're the same rating as sealed and I've had the H4 lights and used them successfully for the last 3 years and they are bright (yes my classic actually goes out at night when it's dark, scary stuff !)

[SiredR]

the originals were last available as a Unipart unit
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UNIPART-7-Replacement-Se...

personally I like a nice biode

Edited by SiredR on Wednesday 24th July 20:21

[mph]

You would probably be better off fitting a relay.

Halogens don't work at all well below a certain voltage, in fact they can perform worse than a standard lamp.

If I recall correctly a drop of less than 1 volt can cause a loss of 30% efficiency in a Halogen bulb.

Considering the losses on a typical old car wiring system it's unlikely that you'll get adequate voltage.

Using a relay and direct feed ensures they get the full voltage.

Edited by mph on Wednesday 24th July 20:31

[mph]

SiredR said:

the originals were last available as a Unipart unit
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UNIPART-7-Replacement-Se...

personally I like a nice biode

Edited by SiredR on Wednesday 24th July 20:15

Fantastic lights, but unfortunately the Amplilux units are now fetching serious money. Not really an alternative unless you have a Ferrari size budget.

[drive2tractors]

mph said:

You would probably be better off fitting a relay.

Halogens don't work at all well below a certain voltage, in fact they can perform worse than a standard lamp.

If I recall correctly a drop of less than 1 volt can cause a loss of 30% efficiency in a Halogen bulb.

Considering the losses on a typical old car wiring system it's unlikely that you'll get adequate voltage.

Using a relay and direct feed ensures they get the full voltage.

Edited by mph on Wednesday 24th July 20:31

I have tested the voltages without the engine running and at both dipped and main feeds I am getting a good 12 volts plus. I'll give them a run without a relay and see what they are like before I launch in to the wiring!
d2t

[nta16]

easy to fit them and trial them then if required now or at a later stage you can fit the two relays and all the extra wiring

mine are bright without relays, my wiring is in hopefully good condition, yet I keep getting told they'd be better with relays, often by people who never drive their classics in the dark but never by people who have send them in use in the dark

if anything my lights are go too far on full beam and I have to dip too soon to not dazed the car up ahead, mine have the flat (does look a bit odd) better(?) lens design

I'd be interested to know if after fitting and trial you need relays or not

Edited by nta16 on Thursday 25th July 00:03

[drive2tractors]

nta16 said:

easy to fit them and trial them then if required now or at a later stage you can fit the two relays and all the extra wiring

mine are bright without relays, my wiring is in hopefully good condition, yet I keep getting told they'd be better with relays, often by people who never drive their classics in the dark but never by people who have send them in use in the dark

if anything my lights are go too far on full beam and I have to dip too soon to not dazed the car up ahead, mine have the flat (does look a bit odd) better(?) lens design

I'd be interested to know if after fitting and trial you need relays or not

Edited by nta16 on Thursday 25th July 00:03

They should arrive today so I'll fit and report back. The wiring looks very sturdy and quite fresh. I have a day off work today and I am massively looking forward to tooling/wafting around in the old girl, such a different drive from a Chimaera!
d2t

[mph]

nta16 said:

easy to fit them and trial them then if required now or at a later stage you can fit the two relays and all the extra wiring

mine are bright without relays, my wiring is in hopefully good condition, yet I keep getting told they'd be better with relays, often by people who never drive their classics in the dark but never by people who have send them in use in the dark

if anything my lights are go too far on full beam and I have to dip too soon to not dazed the car up ahead, mine have the flat (does look a bit odd) better(?) lens design

I'd be interested to know if after fitting and trial you need relays or not

Edited by nta16 on Thursday 25th July 00:03

I found this link which may be of interest.

http://www.ebbo.org/headlamp_relays.php

I appreciate your own lights are perfect and you definitely don't need a relay. The OP may also find his lights meet his requirements without a relay.

I have first hand experience on a restored car with all new wiring that a relay drastically improved the light output from Halogen bulbs. The voltage at the bulb was increased by more than 1V.

The characteristics of halogen bulbs are explained in the article, it's the voltage that's important.

To the OP I would suggest the only real way to obtain a comparison is to connect your lights directly while the engine is running and the system is charging. 12.4V is well below what you should see in these conditions.

Edited by mph on Thursday 25th July 09:10

[onomatopoeia]

SiredR said:

personally I like a nice biode

I have a pair of Cibies in the garage. I'm too scared of breaking them to actually fit them to a car

[Hooli]

drive2tractors said:

I have tested the voltages without the engine running and at both dipped and main feeds I am getting a good 12 volts plus. I'll give them a run without a relay and see what they are like before I launch in to the wiring!
d2t

Test it again with the lights fitted & switched on, amps are as important as volts.

[nta16]

my H4 headlamps are bright enough for me perhaps they could be improved at the cost of additional wiring and relays and but with my experience of the quality, or lack of, modern electrical connections it'd be best to solder everything, more connections more components more potential for problems (hopefully minute)

perhaps I have better 'night' vision than average, I never need to wear sunglasses (and I don't have the start of cataracts, I've passenger with someone who did and it was very worrying in reduce daylight and rain, so raining at night would be have been dangerous)

no way I would I say anything on my car is perfect, it is after all a 70s BL car and now we have very poor quality on some parts and component too

it may be that someone needs or wants the relays but I think the OP can fit them without and then decide, I've found a few who tell me I need relays have never seen my car on the road at night and very rarely if at all use their classic in the dark at night

the OP asked if he needed relays, so I think my answers stand and the information mph has provided is very useful if improvements are needed or wanted - and nothing wrong with a bit of debate

[SiredR]

onomatopoeia said:

SiredR said:

personally I like a nice biode

I have a pair of Cibies in the garage. I'm too scared of breaking them to actually fit them to a car

I know what you mean , when they come up on e-bay they are always £300 plus listed to fit Ferrari's and Porsches , the advertising in the 60s showed them on a Mk1 Cortina , how times have changed

[drive2tractors]

nta16 said:

I think the OP can fit them without and then decide

Reporting back: New headlights fitted and tested on a trip out last night. They were more than bright enough for safe road use and matched well the car at max wafting speed. Thanks for all the help everyone.
d2t

[nta16]

drive2tractors said:

Reporting back: New headlights fitted and tested on a trip out last night. They were more than bright enough for safe road use and matched well the car at max wafting speed. Thanks for all the help everyone.
d2t

thanks for reporting back, I glad I didn't mislead you

should you need or want improvement you can add the relays later

I've had mine fitted over three years now and they're still bright, I've had a new column stalk that includes main/dip switch (well there is only one anyway) waiting to fit for about 18 months as the present one has always seemed a little loose but as it's still working fine I keep forgetting about it, perhaps if I fit it the headlight might be better or the same or perhaps worse, I must try to remember to fit it before next winter