Bargain 944 ... why are these so cheap?
Discussion
Out on a bike ride last night and decided to go on a decent one which takes me a good few miles to a village where there is a classic dealer ...
Came across this neat looking 944 at what to me, seems a bargain price. I'm shortly looking for a Capri when I sell my Dodge truck but keep seeing these pop up at decent money. Realised I don't know much about them to be honest - pitfalls, running costs etc.
This was (for the money) as clean a car as I've seen (of any make) - perfect wheels, bodywork unmarked - a couple of shades of white in it but nothing is perfect.
Interior was more or less mint apart from a tear on the driver's seat. No idea of mileage or history though ...
Are these cars moneypits or are they relatively reliable? Would make a decent alternative to the Ford ...
Cost a packet back in the day of course, but they've got to be cheap for a reason, no?
It's the same money as the Stag that requires a total rebuild, and having owned a Stag 25 years ago (which WAS a moneypit) I think I'd rather take the chance on the Porker.
Came across this neat looking 944 at what to me, seems a bargain price. I'm shortly looking for a Capri when I sell my Dodge truck but keep seeing these pop up at decent money. Realised I don't know much about them to be honest - pitfalls, running costs etc.
This was (for the money) as clean a car as I've seen (of any make) - perfect wheels, bodywork unmarked - a couple of shades of white in it but nothing is perfect.
Interior was more or less mint apart from a tear on the driver's seat. No idea of mileage or history though ...
Are these cars moneypits or are they relatively reliable? Would make a decent alternative to the Ford ...
Cost a packet back in the day of course, but they've got to be cheap for a reason, no?
It's the same money as the Stag that requires a total rebuild, and having owned a Stag 25 years ago (which WAS a moneypit) I think I'd rather take the chance on the Porker.
That'll be a 2.5 8v Lux, probably with the earlier ("square") dashboard. It's been damaged and has had some paint; it's missing the sticker across the rear panel and the bonnet doesn't line up that well. It's not a popular colour either. At that price, it's quite expensive ...
They are brilliant cars - brilliant, brilliant, brilliant. And yes, they are stupidly cheap for what they are - as a friend of mine once said "They are the best car that (not a lot of) money can buy", and he's right. No, they aren't that cheap to run, but the Lux's are fairly vice-free, don't rust that much, don't have complex 16v cam chain setups and have the simpler brake calipers. They aren't outrageously powerful so straight line speed is no better than a modern hottish hatch, but the balance and driving experience is as good as you'll find anywhere, ever. Porsche spent a hill of money making the car a good one, and the legendary 968 is pretty much the same car although with a slightly more beefy engine.
Want to know more? Come over to the Porsche Club GB 944 forum (http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tt.asp?forumid=15) - you'll need to register but it's instant and free. Or look at my profile for a reasonable summary of owning a 944 S2 has been like for the last 7 years.
Oli.
They are brilliant cars - brilliant, brilliant, brilliant. And yes, they are stupidly cheap for what they are - as a friend of mine once said "They are the best car that (not a lot of) money can buy", and he's right. No, they aren't that cheap to run, but the Lux's are fairly vice-free, don't rust that much, don't have complex 16v cam chain setups and have the simpler brake calipers. They aren't outrageously powerful so straight line speed is no better than a modern hottish hatch, but the balance and driving experience is as good as you'll find anywhere, ever. Porsche spent a hill of money making the car a good one, and the legendary 968 is pretty much the same car although with a slightly more beefy engine.
Want to know more? Come over to the Porsche Club GB 944 forum (http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tt.asp?forumid=15) - you'll need to register but it's instant and free. Or look at my profile for a reasonable summary of owning a 944 S2 has been like for the last 7 years.
Oli.
zcacogp said:
That'll be a 2.5 8v Lux, probably with the earlier ("square") dashboard. It's been damaged and has had some paint; it's missing the sticker across the rear panel and the bonnet doesn't line up that well. It's not a popular colour either. At that price, it's quite expensive ...
They are brilliant cars - brilliant, brilliant, brilliant. And yes, they are stupidly cheap for what they are - as a friend of mine once said "They are the best car that (not a lot of) money can buy", and he's right. No, they aren't that cheap to run, but the Lux's are fairly vice-free, don't rust that much, don't have complex 16v cam chain setups and have the simpler brake calipers. They aren't outrageously powerful so straight line speed is no better than a modern hottish hatch, but the balance and driving experience is as good as you'll find anywhere, ever. Porsche spent a hill of money making the car a good one, and the legendary 968 is pretty much the same car although with a slightly more beefy engine.
Want to know more? Come over to the Porsche Club GB 944 forum (http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tt.asp?forumid=15) - you'll need to register but it's instant and free. Or look at my profile for a reasonable summary of owning a 944 S2 has been like for the last 7 years.
Oli.
Sorry Oli I need to put another opinion across on the car in question.They are brilliant cars - brilliant, brilliant, brilliant. And yes, they are stupidly cheap for what they are - as a friend of mine once said "They are the best car that (not a lot of) money can buy", and he's right. No, they aren't that cheap to run, but the Lux's are fairly vice-free, don't rust that much, don't have complex 16v cam chain setups and have the simpler brake calipers. They aren't outrageously powerful so straight line speed is no better than a modern hottish hatch, but the balance and driving experience is as good as you'll find anywhere, ever. Porsche spent a hill of money making the car a good one, and the legendary 968 is pretty much the same car although with a slightly more beefy engine.
Want to know more? Come over to the Porsche Club GB 944 forum (http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tt.asp?forumid=15) - you'll need to register but it's instant and free. Or look at my profile for a reasonable summary of owning a 944 S2 has been like for the last 7 years.
Oli.
There is no evidence at all that cars been damaged, it's almost certainly had paint but that's not shocking given the cars age, propensity to pick up stone chips on the nose/arches and the rot issues around the lower wings and sills that even though the earlier cars aren't as prone to they are still prone, as are 924s.
The bonnet line is not a marker it's had a bump, it might have had a bump or the bonnet was almost certainly removed to spray and wasn't refitted properly, or possibly new wings/front panel not lined up correctly.
As for white not being a popular colour? It was moderately popular in the day and looks fantastic now, it contrasts with the black trim and rubbers perfectly and the solid colours are generally a better bet now on these 80s models than the elaborate met paints. That white model all other items being equal is more sellable in white than it would be in say Zermatt silver, a hugely popular colour in the day which has aged horribly now.
You are however bang on on the other points, cracking car, I love the early dashes although the later oval dash is much more civilised inside and a 944 is a good intro to either modern classics or Porsches, you would be unlucky if you bought sensibly to get badly burnt with one. Is 3k expensive, for a 2.5 Lux then yes it's at the top end of the bottom of the market, but who's to say it's not a peach of a car, you could get in to a ropey S2 for the same money but a good 2.5 would be a better first time buy than a problematic S2. 3K isn't that much for a car that is both special and practical.
If its been damaged as suggested above, it could be a cat d. This one looks nice http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
Thanks for the opinions guys - wasn't aware of the difference in interiors - I actually LOVE the white - more so than the red in the other ad linked ...
It's two shades of white yes, but certainly liveable with. Might have to go back and check the dash to confirm which one it is.
So for this model, all things being equal, it's expensive?! No idea of mileage/history though yet ...
Sit it next to a 2.8i Capri and it's a bargain, some of the prices being asked for them ...
It's two shades of white yes, but certainly liveable with. Might have to go back and check the dash to confirm which one it is.
So for this model, all things being equal, it's expensive?! No idea of mileage/history though yet ...
Sit it next to a 2.8i Capri and it's a bargain, some of the prices being asked for them ...
wildoliver said:
zcacogp said:
That'll be a 2.5 8v Lux, probably with the earlier ("square") dashboard. It's been damaged and has had some paint; it's missing the sticker across the rear panel and the bonnet doesn't line up that well. It's not a popular colour either. At that price, it's quite expensive ...
They are brilliant cars - brilliant, brilliant, brilliant. And yes, they are stupidly cheap for what they are - as a friend of mine once said "They are the best car that (not a lot of) money can buy", and he's right. No, they aren't that cheap to run, but the Lux's are fairly vice-free, don't rust that much, don't have complex 16v cam chain setups and have the simpler brake calipers. They aren't outrageously powerful so straight line speed is no better than a modern hottish hatch, but the balance and driving experience is as good as you'll find anywhere, ever. Porsche spent a hill of money making the car a good one, and the legendary 968 is pretty much the same car although with a slightly more beefy engine.
Want to know more? Come over to the Porsche Club GB 944 forum (http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tt.asp?forumid=15) - you'll need to register but it's instant and free. Or look at my profile for a reasonable summary of owning a 944 S2 has been like for the last 7 years.
Oli.
Sorry Oli I need to put another opinion across on the car in question.They are brilliant cars - brilliant, brilliant, brilliant. And yes, they are stupidly cheap for what they are - as a friend of mine once said "They are the best car that (not a lot of) money can buy", and he's right. No, they aren't that cheap to run, but the Lux's are fairly vice-free, don't rust that much, don't have complex 16v cam chain setups and have the simpler brake calipers. They aren't outrageously powerful so straight line speed is no better than a modern hottish hatch, but the balance and driving experience is as good as you'll find anywhere, ever. Porsche spent a hill of money making the car a good one, and the legendary 968 is pretty much the same car although with a slightly more beefy engine.
Want to know more? Come over to the Porsche Club GB 944 forum (http://www.porscheclubgbforum.com/tt.asp?forumid=15) - you'll need to register but it's instant and free. Or look at my profile for a reasonable summary of owning a 944 S2 has been like for the last 7 years.
Oli.
There is no evidence at all that cars been damaged, it's almost certainly had paint but that's not shocking given the cars age, propensity to pick up stone chips on the nose/arches and the rot issues around the lower wings and sills that even though the earlier cars aren't as prone to they are still prone, as are 924s.
The bonnet line is not a marker it's had a bump, it might have had a bump or the bonnet was almost certainly removed to spray and wasn't refitted properly, or possibly new wings/front panel not lined up correctly.
As for white not being a popular colour? It was moderately popular in the day and looks fantastic now, it contrasts with the black trim and rubbers perfectly and the solid colours are generally a better bet now on these 80s models than the elaborate met paints. That white model all other items being equal is more sellable in white than it would be in say Zermatt silver, a hugely popular colour in the day which has aged horribly now.
You are however bang on on the other points, cracking car, I love the early dashes although the later oval dash is much more civilised inside and a 944 is a good intro to either modern classics or Porsches, you would be unlucky if you bought sensibly to get badly burnt with one. Is 3k expensive, for a 2.5 Lux then yes it's at the top end of the bottom of the market, but who's to say it's not a peach of a car, you could get in to a ropey S2 for the same money but a good 2.5 would be a better first time buy than a problematic S2. 3K isn't that much for a car that is both special and practical.
You're right - I'm guessing it has had damage. There is nothing conclusive about the pictures to say it has or hasn't. (Statistically, I'd wager that a car is very unlikely to get to 25 years old without having had damage, so I'd say I'm probably right ...
) That it's had paint is not in much doubt - it looks to clean to not have had some. Whether white is a popular colour depends upon a whole load of things. I've never much liked it, and a white 944 was worth less than any other colour when I bought my S2 (7 years ago). Things have changed a bit since then, but the advice of buying the best one you can find rather than fussing about a particular colour certainly applies.
£3k is a complete steal for a car that is both special and practical, and compared to the prices that other metal seems to command 944's always look remarkably cheap. If you're tempted then do pursue it - they are cracking cars.
Oli.
bigandclever said:
Superb sleuthing B&C! 
Maybe should be looking at paying a bit more then ...
http://www.greenwingmotors.co.uk/porsche-944-s2-co...
I do LOVE the white though!
http://www.greenwingmotors.co.uk/porsche-944-s2-co...
I do LOVE the white though!
bigandclever said:
Ah, so it's an oval dash. I wonder whether that's original - it would be VERY early for an oval dash on a D-plate, unless it was swapped over after the fire. It does have the forged alloy wheels on it which probably weren't original, so someone has swapped some stuff over at least. Given it's a Cat D, that is really quite expensive for that car.
uk66fastback said:
Maybe should be looking at paying a bit more then ...
http://www.greenwingmotors.co.uk/porsche-944-s2-co...
I do LOVE the white though!
That's an S2 - a more expensive proposition but possibly the best 944 ever made. Go into one of those with your eyes open as they can produce some much larger bills. Get a PPI if you aren't familiar with the model; apparently good ones can readily munch through several grand in remedial work soon after purchase. http://www.greenwingmotors.co.uk/porsche-944-s2-co...
I do LOVE the white though!
Oli.
I'm struck suddenly by these 944s in white - as though I've been clonked on the head and woken up after all these years - seems they've passed me by for years ... 
Suddenly all thoughts of a Cobalt Blue or Mercury Grey 2.8i are maybe beginning to fade
Sounds like these cars are a different proposition altogether though compared to the humnble Ford - so a lot more research needed before contemplating buying one - why are the S2's repairs/bills that much more costly?
Suddenly all thoughts of a Cobalt Blue or Mercury Grey 2.8i are maybe beginning to fade
Sounds like these cars are a different proposition altogether though compared to the humnble Ford - so a lot more research needed before contemplating buying one - why are the S2's repairs/bills that much more costly?
uk66fastback said:
why are the S2's repairs/bills that much more costly?
Three big reasons; 1. The S2 (and turbo) had different bodywork that had a big water trap in it and caused the front wings and sills to rust. The wings were different to the Lux front wings, and are very expensive, and work on the sills is always expensive (and needs to be done 'cos rusty sills are an MOT fail). Earlier cars are made of better steel than the later ones, so an early Lux with better steel and no rust traps is likely to be in better nick than a very late S2 or turbo.
2. S2's had a 16valve head which has a chain linking the two cams. This is not featured on any Porsche service schedules, although needs changing. The caps have sprockets built into them and replacing them if the chain wears or breaks is VERY expensive (think along the lines of four figures and you won't be very surprised.) Also parts like cam belts and balance belts are more expensive for the S2 than for the 8v cars, as are ignition components. And silly little things mount up; those clear lights set low in the bumper, for instance, come to nearly £200 per side to replace the lens and over £300 for the whole light. A slight car parking ding can hence end up being very expensive.
3. S2's and Turbos had Brembo four-pot alloy calipers. These give stupendous stopping capability, but suffer from a thing called 'plate lift' which can be expensive to rectify. Google 'Plate Lift Porsche' to find out more. The Lux's have simpler sliding calipers which are very good and much cheaper to maintain.
Oli.
The S2 I formerly owned (but have no financial interest in now) has come up for sale at http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
This is a very well looked after car which I owned for 13 years from 29,000 miles onwards. There is no rust in the sills (they were waxed by myself when I got the car) and the bottom of the front wings were replaced by Clark and Carter in Essex about 3 years ago, along with a replacement rear bumper and a very high quality respray of the lower half of each side of the car. I couldn't tell it had been painted, it was that well done.
It has sold once since I sold it and I obviously cannot vouch for it's current condition, but it was a very good car when I had it, and it's only done a couple of thousand miles if that since then.
I've half a mind to buy it back myself...
This is a very well looked after car which I owned for 13 years from 29,000 miles onwards. There is no rust in the sills (they were waxed by myself when I got the car) and the bottom of the front wings were replaced by Clark and Carter in Essex about 3 years ago, along with a replacement rear bumper and a very high quality respray of the lower half of each side of the car. I couldn't tell it had been painted, it was that well done.
It has sold once since I sold it and I obviously cannot vouch for it's current condition, but it was a very good car when I had it, and it's only done a couple of thousand miles if that since then.
I've half a mind to buy it back myself...
Yertis said:
How much was that red Spitfire next to the over-priced Stag?
I'm not sure whether to embarass you or not Yerty me ol' fruit?!Ok, I will ...
Last taxed in 1983 I think ...
Want to guess the price - it wasn't *on the screen* - but had fallen off inside ...
Edited by uk66fastback on Thursday 25th July 15:04
uk66fastback said:
I'm not sure whether to embarass you or not Yerty me ol' fruit?!
Ok, I will ...
Last taxed in 1983 I think ...
Want to guess the price - it wasn't *on the screen* - but had fallen off inside ...
I've actually genuinely embarrassed myself... Ok, I will ...
Last taxed in 1983 I think ...
Want to guess the price - it wasn't *on the screen* - but had fallen off inside ...
Edited by uk66fastback on Thursday 25th July 15:04
for shame...
Practically it's worth bugger all of course in that state, but I reckon about £4000 on the ticket?
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