What’s a "confidence-inspiring" classic car to drive?

[EricE]

Hello everyone! My name is Eric, I'm 24 and from the Netherlands. I'd like to start doing some track days and local road rallies with a classic car. I'm fortunate enough to have a father who owns some classic cars and lets me drive all of them, but I never feel comfortable enough to drive more than maybe 3/10s on our completely empty and closed streets in fear of crashing it.
Even during the few rallies (on closed street roads... we competed against Fulvias, Alfa Bertones, MG MGC, 240Z, TR5s... a mixed pre-80s field) I've participated in, I usually end up dead last.

Now I saved up the euro equivalent of £25000 to buy a very well sorted car for such events, track days but also weekend driving. The problem is that I still have no idea what to buy. It does not necessarily have to be a super fast 150hp+ car, but something that handles well and lets me hone my driving skills without a super high learning curve like an early Porsche 911 or something like that.
A car built before 1975 would be preferred. I would love to hear your thoughts!

Thank you

Eric

[Yertis]

In my book the man who ends up dead last, is the winner.

Anyway, I'd suggest a Triumph TR4 or 6, but I'm biased.

[PoshTwit]

Here you are

... Also biased...

[Elderly]

EricE said:

I'm fortunate enough to have a father who owns some classic cars and lets me drive all of them,


Eric

So of these, which ones do you like and/or dislike driving?

[85Carrera]

Why don't you start off with a midget/sprite, use this to hone your skills and then, when you are comfortable that you have down so, upgrade to something bigger and more powerful (if you want to) then

[EricE]

Elderly said:

So of these, which ones do you like and/or dislike driving?

There are none that I really dislike. I just don’t feel very comfortable pushing them to the edge, even on the track.

He has an AC Greyhound, which is fun to drive on a street but a bit of a barge around the turns. The 911 2.4S should be the perfect car for these types of events, but all the tales of snap-oversteer when lifting the throttle in a corner have me worried. Especially when its wet and then you realise that you’re too fast coming into the corner... It also feels a bit loose and unpredictable, but maybe that is the car requiring a restoration.
Then there is the Peugeot 204 Coupe which is a ton of fun to drive because you can just go flat out everywhere, there’s a silly amount of body roll involved but it stays planted. Unfortunately it's just too slow for this type of driving.
All the other cars are not really worth mentioning for this type of driving.

Also, I'd like to push the car beyond its limits in winter rallies, and there’s only so much fun you can have with FWD. (I think?)

I thought about a Mini Cooper Mk 1 but I’m 6'3" and the driving position is very... unique. But I heard so many good things about the handling of that car.

[benjj]

I'm also 6'3'' so I know how you feel

You've already mentioned one of my suggestions, the Lancia Fulvia. Small, amazing handling, great engine note, revs to the top, fwd and predictable etc.

Other than that I'd suggest an Alfa 105 series, probably a 1750. Loads of room, built like a tank, goes like hell!

What about a properly well sorted BMW 2002 tii?

If you can push later you could put a very nice Porsche 924 Turbo together for less than half of your budget.

[velocemitch]

I've driven an Alfa Bertone on (and beyond!!) the limit and if I'm honest it's not confidence inspiring on the limit, you know it will bite it's just a question of when and how hard. You have to have confidence that you can catch it, if you don't you will simply not be quick enough, you have to take them by the scruff of the neck and push very hard. I'd say the same is going to go for all RWD cars of that era, the Alfa is probably better than most. Easiest to drive of the RWD Cars is almost certainly an Escort (with a quick rack), not for no reason did they dominate rallying in the UK, on the continent less so, but perhaps an Opel Kaddet would come close.

My gut feeling on this is though that you should go Front wheel Drive. A Mini is an obvious choice, very easy to drive, very confidence inspiring and not slow by any means if tuned right. Another possibility might be a Saab 96 but you would need the V4 as the early ones are very slow. Perhaps a Saab 99, but they were quite cumbersome in my view.

My vote though would be an Alfa Sud, probably the best handling car of it's generation mainly because it was so forgiving, hence confidence inspiring. A late model Ti with the 1.7 and twin Webbers would be a quick car.

Edited by velocemitch on Monday 29th July 19:44

[benjj]

The Saabs are a great shout.

Lovely handling cars (96) but you do have the thrash the pants off them

Brilliant in the snow too for winter rallying.

[MrADC]

I'm 6ft 2" and never had a problem with a mini - fit one of these http://www.minispares.com/product/Classic/BG5101MS... and also fit 2 of these http://www.minispares.com/Product.aspx?pid=35615 and you will comfortably fit in. For £25000 expect a very well sorted and very eligible mk2 Cooper S ... Very confidence inspiring!

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C383863 ... I'm sure you'll find an LHD one for the same price. Endlessly tuneable and handling infinitely adjustable. You'll never look back!

Even in-period tuning options can be pretty extreme...http://www.minispares.com/article/Minispares~Diary/Dodd's~Diary/Minispares~New~Arden~8~Port~Head.aspx?96d43742-ec73-4e6c-8fb1-0f58832039fd%7Ccc4d48fc-990b-4c42-8fba-f86ecdbb1b10%7C7eacf00b-ffff-467d-bc16-35b9d90cf002

[Hooli]

I'll go against the grain & say get something RWD like a spridget to gain confidence in & then supercharge it. FWD is confidence inspiring because it's so bloody boring, if you can't go sideways then why bother?

[velocemitch]

Midget... good excuse to drag this up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iw8ZgKPTklo

Who needs supercharging.

[EricE]

Great suggestions all around! I can safely say that I have considered all of the mentioned cars at least once in the last few weeks. Even the obscure 99 Turbo (because I saw one for sale locally... but it was gone the next time I checked).

Saab 96 - love the idea, the two strokers in particular. The sound, the look of the shortnose... beautiful, I just wish they weren’t so hopelessly underpowered. I wouldn’t want get anywhere near the alps in one of these... V4 is worth considering.

Alfa Sud 1.5 Ti - not a huge fan of the looks, but from what I have seen and read about them, they seem to be massively undervalued. 4 cylinder twin cam boxer with a truly glorious sound, great handling and as far as I know it has front inboard disc brakes... too cool. The reason why I haven’t bought one yet is obviously rust. It seems impossible to find a solid car unless it recently had a bare metal restoration.

2002 - I have a soft spot for the tii touring but I have yet to drive one. Not a fan of the Coupe, but if the right one comes along, I’ll consider it.

Mini - I am somehow drawn to a "real" Cooper S and these are getting really hard to find around here. Prices are exploding too. Everything else about it seems to be a perfect fit, although I’m not sure how fun they are in winter? And then there is the sympathy factor, everybody loves an old Mini! Whereas I’ve noticed that people will actively turn their head to look away when I drive the 911.

Escort Mk 1 - the prices I see are about five times higher than I expect. They must be a joy to drive, but I can’t find a good one (LHD, LSD, reasonable engine...) for a reasonable price here.

Spridget - Well, that video really says it all... is there a big difference in performance and handling between the later Mk3s and a Frogeye?

I found this while browsing just now... do they make extended windscreens for these ?
Austin Healey Sprite MK 1 ''Frogeye"

[XJ Flyer]

It needs to be something with more than 4 cylinders simple to work on mechanics and something that won't seem underpowered as you build up experience and it doesn't seem to need to be a large saloon.Sorted.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHaesH36_aI

[vixen1700]

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C387773

Something like this?

[Mark A S]

Mk 1 or 2 Escort. For your budget you should be able to find a good one that suits your needs. Great car to start in as it will always be on your side.
Mini also a good choice, its not by chance that both these cars have such fantastic motorsport credentials.

Cheers

[Yertis]

XJ Flyer said:

It needs to be something with more than 4 cylinders simple to work on mechanics and something that won't seem underpowered as you build up experience and it doesn't seem to need to be a large saloon.Sorted.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHaesH36_aI

Yes, or a TR6.

[smiffy220]

Not pre-75, but 1979 ish, 'Talbot Sunbeam Lotus'. Lots of power, rear wheel drive, small hatch and they handle well.

[Yertis]

smiffy220 said:

Not pre-75, but 1979 ish, 'Talbot Sunbeam Lotus'. Lots of power, rear wheel drive, small hatch and they handle well.

Given what he wants to use it for, is the TSL a bit fragile and hard to get bits for?

[smiffy220]

Yertis said:

smiffy220 said:

Not pre-75, but 1979 ish, 'Talbot Sunbeam Lotus'. Lots of power, rear wheel drive, small hatch and they handle well.

Given what he wants to use it for, is the TSL a bit fragile and hard to get bits for?

I only sold my Ti version rally car about 4 years ago, and I hadn't found any trouble getting parts. I'm not sure about in Holland though? They are still quite popular in clubmans rallying in this country. Not so much as the Mk1 and Mk2 Escorts obviously.

Like this maybe:-
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C398921

Edited by smiffy220 on Tuesday 30th July 16:58