Paintwork - Help
Discussion
Need a bit of guidance and advice.
Had my shell painted in December - full 2 pack bare metal respray on a classic mini. The place I had it done has a very good reputation in terms of painted cars and levels of finish. I'm now in the process of rebuilding the car and in the interim the car has been stored in an unheated garage. I've been mega careful not to scratch it and it hasn't been covered. Noticed over the weekend, deep in the paint, blemishes that weren't there when the paint was brand new.
The paint hasn't really seen any daylight as such - so should I be worried (becasue at the moment the anxiety is beginning to build)?
Anybody have any similar experiences? Just to add, body is 4 months since being fresh from the booth.
Had my shell painted in December - full 2 pack bare metal respray on a classic mini. The place I had it done has a very good reputation in terms of painted cars and levels of finish. I'm now in the process of rebuilding the car and in the interim the car has been stored in an unheated garage. I've been mega careful not to scratch it and it hasn't been covered. Noticed over the weekend, deep in the paint, blemishes that weren't there when the paint was brand new.
The paint hasn't really seen any daylight as such - so should I be worried (becasue at the moment the anxiety is beginning to build)?
Anybody have any similar experiences? Just to add, body is 4 months since being fresh from the booth.
Had a similar occurrence some time ago while repainting a classic Triumph TR6 sports, that was also a bare metal operation. By coincidence the paint manufacturers representative called by my shop in order to promote a new product for us to test. It was 2 pack high-build self levelling primer/surfacer that offered new technology/formula to aid application ,reduce curing time and aid wet-flatting to improve work process. Unfortunely it did not come up to all these expectations ,but the detrimental reactions did not manifest themselves until much later ,after the vehicle had been reassembled and placed in storage for a while.
The first indication of impending degradation was barely visible hairline cracks in the sub- level paint.
Similar to cob-webs under the clearcoat which gradually developed into deep crevices and eventually when exposed to strong sunlight started to curl-up at the edges and peel off in large pieces requiring a total bare metal strip and repaint.
After considerable discussion with the paint manufacturer it was decided that this was an unforeseen procedural problem. Apparently we had not given the primer sufficient time to cure, thereby trapping solvent/chemicals etc at the base level. Followed with several coats of Signal Red {which is a very soft
compound material] and then as soon it tacked-off a further number of wet coat clear was applied .
The paint supplier claims this method traps constituents which produce gas pockets which lift the material off in sheets.
Personally I am of the opinion that the EPA forced the manufacturer to withdraw certain materials
from the market in order to meet pollution targets , left them struggling to find suitable products
with the customer ended up being used to test the new formula.
The first indication of impending degradation was barely visible hairline cracks in the sub- level paint.
Similar to cob-webs under the clearcoat which gradually developed into deep crevices and eventually when exposed to strong sunlight started to curl-up at the edges and peel off in large pieces requiring a total bare metal strip and repaint.
After considerable discussion with the paint manufacturer it was decided that this was an unforeseen procedural problem. Apparently we had not given the primer sufficient time to cure, thereby trapping solvent/chemicals etc at the base level. Followed with several coats of Signal Red {which is a very soft
compound material] and then as soon it tacked-off a further number of wet coat clear was applied .
The paint supplier claims this method traps constituents which produce gas pockets which lift the material off in sheets.
Personally I am of the opinion that the EPA forced the manufacturer to withdraw certain materials
from the market in order to meet pollution targets , left them struggling to find suitable products
with the customer ended up being used to test the new formula.
As someone who specialises in repairing and restoring classic cars I would ask what the blemishes are. if rubbing marks from filling are beginning to show then it is like ly that the high build primer has suffered some sinkage. The marks may or may not be within the reach of a polisher. Speak to the bodyshop.
I have just bare metalled a TR6 to avoid any uncertainty about what filler and cellulose paint is underneath. Cellulose paint never stops moving. and priming over it wakes it up.
I also have a TVR Griffith 500 in progress. That requires a different approach which meant high build primering the car while the body was still off - I had glass fibre repairs to do on the shell, and painted the shell underneath and in the engine bay while i had the chance. Because GRP can also be a bit 'mobile' I have allowed the car to stand for weeks before the colour goes on to combat the risk of sinkage.
I have just bare metalled a TR6 to avoid any uncertainty about what filler and cellulose paint is underneath. Cellulose paint never stops moving. and priming over it wakes it up.
I also have a TVR Griffith 500 in progress. That requires a different approach which meant high build primering the car while the body was still off - I had glass fibre repairs to do on the shell, and painted the shell underneath and in the engine bay while i had the chance. Because GRP can also be a bit 'mobile' I have allowed the car to stand for weeks before the colour goes on to combat the risk of sinkage.
theshrew said:
Probably best if you post some photos of the problem areas.
Seems strange to have issues if the car hasnt been outside. Have you been using Silicone near it when it was first done ? Or Any condensation dripping from the roof or anything like that ?
No silicone anywhere near it. The shell has been stored in the process of build in a garage (bolt together sectional concrete type) - they aren't humidity controlled at all inside, and never 100% bone dry. If water had deposited on it, are you telling me that would be sufficienct to mark it? What happens when it goes out and gets driven in the rain???Seems strange to have issues if the car hasnt been outside. Have you been using Silicone near it when it was first done ? Or Any condensation dripping from the roof or anything like that ?
Edited by FWDRacer on Tuesday 25th March 13:12
As others have said probably shrinkage in the high build.
Was it the same paint system used from the same manufacturer throughout to their reccomended application methods etc?
When I started stripping the audi back to bare steel, there were anywhere between 12 to 16 layers of paint to be found so obviously itd be unwise to trust any of the previous work, so off it all came.
I then used ONLY the primers and compatible colours and clears from Glasurit because I desperately wanted to avoid anything like that happening, its a hell of a lot of work and nothings more gutting than seeing it all go wrong.
Ive seen it before where the paint at first appears flawless but over the course of a couple of weeks or so you start to get repair outlines and scratches caused by sinkage appearing.
As previously stated by others it depends how deep the flaws are, it may be possible to compound them out if the paint films of a thick enough depth.
Hope you sort it out, its a real minefield sometimes.
Was it the same paint system used from the same manufacturer throughout to their reccomended application methods etc?
When I started stripping the audi back to bare steel, there were anywhere between 12 to 16 layers of paint to be found so obviously itd be unwise to trust any of the previous work, so off it all came.
I then used ONLY the primers and compatible colours and clears from Glasurit because I desperately wanted to avoid anything like that happening, its a hell of a lot of work and nothings more gutting than seeing it all go wrong.
Ive seen it before where the paint at first appears flawless but over the course of a couple of weeks or so you start to get repair outlines and scratches caused by sinkage appearing.
As previously stated by others it depends how deep the flaws are, it may be possible to compound them out if the paint films of a thick enough depth.
Hope you sort it out, its a real minefield sometimes.
Im not a painter nor know much about painting, Im a mechanic of forty years, have a mate who has been a painter for the same period,nowadays he does mostly older cars/restoration work and still paints mostly in cellulose, he maintains unless you start from bare metal two pack paints are much more susceptible to sinking on previous repairs than old fashioned cellulose.
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