Reshelled classic cars
Discussion
Something described as a Mini Cooper S -http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271472880522?clk_rvr_id=629563297965
So it doesn't have the original body, or the original engine, but it's still a Cooper S.
Surely this is just the chassis number of the Cooper S and otherwise a 998 standard Mini of a similar vintage? Or have I missed something?
So it doesn't have the original body, or the original engine, but it's still a Cooper S.
Surely this is just the chassis number of the Cooper S and otherwise a 998 standard Mini of a similar vintage? Or have I missed something?
It's strange with classics. A re-shelled car = a ringer, makes some people want to stay away yet those same people would consider a restoration that has had every panel replaced during a ground up restoration. Where is the line?
Personally I don't care either way. That Mini obviously isn't a genuine Cooper S but it's a blank canvas, you can make it what you want it to be. I'd say most of the value of that car is in the ID rather than the car itself.
Personally I don't care either way. That Mini obviously isn't a genuine Cooper S but it's a blank canvas, you can make it what you want it to be. I'd say most of the value of that car is in the ID rather than the car itself.
clarkey said:
Something described as a Mini Cooper S -http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271472880522?clk_rvr_id=629563297965
So it doesn't have the original body, or the original engine, but it's still a Cooper S.
Surely this is just the chassis number of the Cooper S and otherwise a 998 standard Mini of a similar vintage? Or have I missed something?
So it doesn't have the original body, or the original engine, but it's still a Cooper S.
Surely this is just the chassis number of the Cooper S and otherwise a 998 standard Mini of a similar vintage? Or have I missed something?
If I understand the rules correctly, if all that stuff was done today and declared to DVLA, it would be wearing a "Q" plate. The seller is being totally upfront and the DVLA were certainly more lenient in the past, but it's a "trigger's broom" or BITSA at best.
That said, I wouldn't pay the premium for something that seemed all numbers matching and original anyway since it's almost impossible to be sure.
I guess it's unusual that the guy is being up front!
To put it in a modern context - if I buy an Impreza 22B and wreck it, then buy a standard Uk turbo car and put the chassis number on that, is it still a 22B??? Or a UK Impreza with the identity of a 22B.
But as I say, at least he is being honest.
To put it in a modern context - if I buy an Impreza 22B and wreck it, then buy a standard Uk turbo car and put the chassis number on that, is it still a 22B??? Or a UK Impreza with the identity of a 22B.
But as I say, at least he is being honest.
clarkey said:
I guess it's unusual that the guy is being up front!
To put it in a modern context - if I buy an Impreza 22B and wreck it, then buy a standard Uk turbo car and put the chassis number on that, is it still a 22B??? Or a UK Impreza with the identity of a 22B.
But as I say, at least he is being honest.
I think you can reshell (as long as you use new shell of the same spec) and keep the original identity. Not quite sure how the chassis number would work in that case. Where the wheels come off (see what I did there) is where you start changing other major components too. - on reflection, maybe that Mini wouldn't get a Q plate...To put it in a modern context - if I buy an Impreza 22B and wreck it, then buy a standard Uk turbo car and put the chassis number on that, is it still a 22B??? Or a UK Impreza with the identity of a 22B.
But as I say, at least he is being honest.
V8forweekends said:
I think you can reshell (as long as you use new shell of the same spec) and keep the original identity. Not quite sure how the chassis number would work in that case. Where the wheels come off (see what I did there) is where you start changing other major components too. - on reflection, maybe that Mini wouldn't get a Q plate...
Generally you need the chassis and then at least 8 points from the DVLA scoring system to swerve a Q plate. Classic cars that never existed until last week are only a problem when the bubble bursts. And when it does, this time around they will find a very, very large number of cars that never really existed.
That's if anyone actually wants to go looking.
P5Nij said:
At least this particular example is a Mk3 reshelled into an appropriate shell. It does grate a bit when earlier Mk1s and 2s are reshelled using Mk3,4,5 etc shells.
Even that is "fixable" at a cost - you can get a kit to retro fit the external door hinges and smaller rear light apertures etcI don't see the issue here, sure it may not be the car that came out of the factory but....
It is perfectly legal to reshell a car, at some other point in time it is legal to change the engine. The only issue would be if both of these and significant other changes happened at the same time.
The seller is open to the history. A ringer would be the application of one cars identity to another, that is wrong and illegal. Simply shelling and at a different point swapping the engine is not.
It is perfectly legal to reshell a car, at some other point in time it is legal to change the engine. The only issue would be if both of these and significant other changes happened at the same time.
The seller is open to the history. A ringer would be the application of one cars identity to another, that is wrong and illegal. Simply shelling and at a different point swapping the engine is not.
LordBretSinclair said:
Trigger's broom !!!!!
I was talking to my brother about the 1990 Rover Mini Cooper we've owned between us since 1995, and how much of a Trigger's Broom it was - new 1380cc engine, new front wings, grille, doors and loads of other welding and paint (because rust, of course), complete after-market suspension (hi-lo etc.), Metro brakes.We'll probably swap out the original sunroof roof panel for a solid one soon, plus some new gearbox internals. Soon it will just be the rear number plate that is left original.
Anyone see the Chasing Classic Cars episode where the auction ran into trouble because the local motor licencing department (East coast USA) wanted to pull the auction because the cars had been restored and the rivets attaching the VIN plates were new and they could have been ringers? In the end the auction went ahead but 15 cars had advisories put on them. It obviously pays to age the rivets before attaching the plate to to the car. I mean, who leaves the plate on when respraying? How far do you go before a car actually doesn't really exist? I've oft said that even the fact of doing an oil change means the car is no longer original. And what about historic rally cars? Bad accidents meant new shells in the day, engines were swapped as a matter of routine; in fact probably the only part that was left original was the number plate. Strawberry jam and tea anyone?
Just a thought? Is this car, which still races and may well be at the Classic, still original after this accident in 2004? It's still the same C-type after all. Discuss.
For me, the only test of a classic car's authenticity is continuous history, not how many parts have been or not been changed.
For me, the only test of a classic car's authenticity is continuous history, not how many parts have been or not been changed.
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