90's classic car bubble - looking for victims and memories
Discussion
Hi All,
I'm looking for memories/ feedback from victims and those who experienced the classic car bubble of the early nineties. We were discussing it in the office the other day, and thought it would be good to tap into the greater petrolhead consciousness to get some feedback from those who were owners in the trade or just remembered it.
It would be great to hear from anyone who remembers those days - please feel free to post your thoughts or get in touch with me direct.
Ed
I'm looking for memories/ feedback from victims and those who experienced the classic car bubble of the early nineties. We were discussing it in the office the other day, and thought it would be good to tap into the greater petrolhead consciousness to get some feedback from those who were owners in the trade or just remembered it.
It would be great to hear from anyone who remembers those days - please feel free to post your thoughts or get in touch with me direct.
Ed
Just go out and enjoy your cars. If the prices goes up great, if they all go down then great too (more chance to buy your dream car and its all relative).
Surely life is too short to spend all your time worrying about what might or might not happen to values?
(Apologies to OP, just bored of the constant talk in magazines, forums etc of classic car bubble about to burst, zzzzzzzzzz, had to get that off my chest, on with the thread)
Surely life is too short to spend all your time worrying about what might or might not happen to values?
(Apologies to OP, just bored of the constant talk in magazines, forums etc of classic car bubble about to burst, zzzzzzzzzz, had to get that off my chest, on with the thread)
Edited by downr on Monday 4th August 22:35
I will tell you a little story.
Back in my Ferrari days (mid 90s) a chap came in to order a 355, which were on 2 year waiting lists and fetching up to 10K over list.
My then boss, pulled me to one side and said dont take an order off him, so I politely said I couldnt help him.
Story goes: He ordered a Testarossa when the market was crazy, assured the dealer it was for himself and not for speculation. (ferrari were fining dealerships if cars immediately appeared in the times for "overs")
Cue collection day: Pays by bank draft, drives it 200m down the road to waiting transporter of a well known supercar dealer and pockets £100K over list!!
Otherside of coin....dealer I worked at had a car from the boom days that stood them at 120K that was worth 40!! (ironically its worth 150 today)
downr said:
Just go out and enjoy your cars. If the prices goes up great, if they all go down then great too (more chance to buy your dream car and its all relative).
Surely life is too short to spend all your time worrying about what might or might not happen to values?
(Apologies to OP, just bored of the constant talk in magazines, forums etc of classic car bubble about to burst, zzzzzzzzzz, had to get that off my chest, on with the thread)
That's what most buyers are doing - we want to write a piece on this for our website, hence the question. There has been talk of a bubble for at least the last 3 years so we want to put what is happening now in context against the situation back in the 90's.Surely life is too short to spend all your time worrying about what might or might not happen to values?
(Apologies to OP, just bored of the constant talk in magazines, forums etc of classic car bubble about to burst, zzzzzzzzzz, had to get that off my chest, on with the thread)
Edited by downr on Monday 4th August 22:35
As Poorcardealer says, it really was crazy back then.
I know I've posted this pre bubble-burst advert up before, but it may be of interest to the OP if he hasn't seen it. Both the dealer and the magazine are long-gone. Supercar Classics September 1989.
The vast majority of the classic car owners of the day were unaffected by the bubble bursting, since it was really only the proper high-end (and brand new speculator) stuff that fell victim. The rest of us just watched on bemused.
The vast majority of the classic car owners of the day were unaffected by the bubble bursting, since it was really only the proper high-end (and brand new speculator) stuff that fell victim. The rest of us just watched on bemused.
I wasn't able to get burned by it as I couldn't afford to. No matter what the state of the market, at least two cars I'd love to own - a Pagoda Merc SL and an E-type are out of reach, and always have been. The bursting of the nineties bubble did at least allow me to buy and smoke around in a 60s car at weekends.
ETA - A bit like the Punk/New Wave music explosion, the Classic car bubble led to some great car mags, like Jalopy and Old and Slow Car.
ETA - A bit like the Punk/New Wave music explosion, the Classic car bubble led to some great car mags, like Jalopy and Old and Slow Car.
Edited by V8forweekends on Tuesday 5th August 11:27
LotusOmega375D said:
I know I've posted this pre bubble-burst advert up before, but it may be of interest to the OP if he hasn't seen it. Both the dealer and the magazine are long-gone. Supercar Classics September 1989.
The vast majority of the classic car owners of the day were unaffected by the bubble bursting, since it was really only the proper high-end (and brand new speculator) stuff that fell victim. The rest of us just watched on bemused.
£135k for a Mondial!!!!!!!!!!!!!The vast majority of the classic car owners of the day were unaffected by the bubble bursting, since it was really only the proper high-end (and brand new speculator) stuff that fell victim. The rest of us just watched on bemused.
Er, if anyone asks, I'm not going to the Classifieds to look for Mondials.........
There is an upside to the recent increase in values, in that owners of cars that need significant restoration to make roadworthy are encouraged to spend some cash to do this, as they see more chance of the resulting restored vehicle holding a value that recognises at least some (or perhaps even all) of the costs involved.
More classics on the road, which can't be bad.
More classics on the road, which can't be bad.
Maulden7 said:
There is an upside to the recent increase in values, in that owners of cars that need significant restoration to make roadworthy are encouraged to spend some cash to do this, as they see more chance of the resulting restored vehicle holding a value that recognises at least some (or perhaps even all) of the costs involved.
More classics on the road, which can't be bad.
Good point More classics on the road, which can't be bad.
Quote: "At the peak of Japanese madness in November of 1989, we sold 250 GTO S/N 3909 to Takeo Kato, in Japan, for $13.3 million, plus commission. When everything collapsed in 1994, it went to David Morisson, an American living in London, for about $3.5 million. Today S/N 3909 lives in California with SCMer John Mozart, who acquired the car in 2001 as part of a package with 250 TR S/N 0770, paying in the $7,000,000 range for the 250 GTO."
Source: http://www.ferraris-online.com/pages/article.php?r...
Source: http://www.ferraris-online.com/pages/article.php?r...
The link is from 2006 so we have had the huge worldwide recession since, and interest rates have dropped and stayed at .5% for many years. He was right about property, and muscle cars have dipped, Ferrari have continued to ascend to the stratosphere.
I asked Marcel Massini, the renowned Ferrari historian recently on fchat where the current buying money is coming from, and its not generally the new markets, still very much the establishment from the US and Europe, real collectors not speculators as such so any correction could be a while away.
Huge numbers of Ferrari's are going through the high end auctions soon, if they flounder that could be the start of the dip, or if it goes the other way then that could be the fuel for a further upward trend. Its play money for the billionaire collectors and there are only so many classics to go around.
I asked Marcel Massini, the renowned Ferrari historian recently on fchat where the current buying money is coming from, and its not generally the new markets, still very much the establishment from the US and Europe, real collectors not speculators as such so any correction could be a while away.
Huge numbers of Ferrari's are going through the high end auctions soon, if they flounder that could be the start of the dip, or if it goes the other way then that could be the fuel for a further upward trend. Its play money for the billionaire collectors and there are only so many classics to go around.
LotusOmega375D said:
The vast majority of the classic car owners of the day were unaffected by the bubble bursting, since it was really only the proper high-end (and brand new speculator) stuff that fell victim. The rest of us just watched on bemused.
I don't think that's entirely true. Those of us down at the bottom end of the market could get our fingers burned too (I managed to avoid that, flogging my then TR6 at a decent profit to put down a deposit on a flat – had to get on that property ladder!) Remember at the time there were actually very few true open-top sportscars being made. Caterham, TVR, Reliant, Porsche and that was about it. The Reliant was crap, TVR hadn't really hit their stride yet with the Griffith and Porsche were pretty expensive (no Boxster yet remember). So if you wanted open top you were mainly looking at E-Types, Triumphs, Healeys and MGs. A lot of people threw significant sums at getting those cars restored, and if you were caught at the wrong time stood to lose. I was (and still am) into my TR6s – in the early '90s these were in ca.£25k territory if top-notch and well presented. They're not back there yet, without even correcting for inflation.lockhart flawse said:
I remember at that time that someone set up an investment fund that was going to invest in classic cars. As I recall they were going to buy, store and hold these cars. I think they quickly disappeared when the market collapsed.
Wasn't a similar fund launched 12-18 months ago?Although, of course, this time it's different because all the emerging markets johnnies are going to start to buying classic cars/investment grade wine/prime london real estate, etc
Although I'll give you the last one, for now ...
When I was researching my book in 2008/9 I visited one if those secret vehicle storage places in the countryside (no names, etc). Many of the cars had gone, but a few survived. Brand new, zero mileage, never been driven, stored from the boom in the 90s and still there. The problem is, they were cars like the Aston Virage, silver spirit, merc 500sl.
Put there in the late 80s/90s and waiting for the value to increase. The problem is, they are unlikely realise their value, nevermind their storage costs
I assume the owners are waiting for their vale to catch up with testarossa, 911 turbo, countach etc which had since been moved and sold on.
Put there in the late 80s/90s and waiting for the value to increase. The problem is, they are unlikely realise their value, nevermind their storage costs
I assume the owners are waiting for their vale to catch up with testarossa, 911 turbo, countach etc which had since been moved and sold on.
LotusOmega375D said:
I know I've posted this pre bubble-burst advert up before, but it may be of interest to the OP if he hasn't seen it. Both the dealer and the magazine are long-gone. Supercar Classics September 1989.
The vast majority of the classic car owners of the day were unaffected by the bubble bursting, since it was really only the proper high-end (and brand new speculator) stuff that fell victim. The rest of us just watched on bemused.
That's very interesting.The vast majority of the classic car owners of the day were unaffected by the bubble bursting, since it was really only the proper high-end (and brand new speculator) stuff that fell victim. The rest of us just watched on bemused.
I had no idea that F328s had reached quite that level.
In 2005 I paid £37,000 for a F328 which had 1500 miles on the clock. It was just like brand new.
I sold it in 2007 with about 7000 miles for £33,000.
At the time, I thought I had done pretty well. A couple of years in a Ferrari for £4000.
In fact, It was such a great car, that I recently considered buying another one. There is currently a 7000 mile 328 for sale in the classifieds for £100,000.... I don't think I will bother.
Wonder where it will end this time?
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