Discussion
A little history:
Approximately 10 months ago, I was on the way home in the Spitty, and lost power. The points were slipping so badly due to a worn base plate/thread in the dissy, that I had to literally reset them evey 50 yards, just to get home. That was fun.
Sent the dissy off to be converted to electronic. Came back and car was having none of it. I've now had the dissy converted back to electronic, and had someone who's pretty good with cars to refit it. Unfortunately though, it's still not firing properly. There's voltage to the coil and the dissy and there's a spark from the plugs. Compression is fine, and there's fuel reaching everywhere it should. Tried turning the dissy all ways, resetting the points, and firing order is correct. Had the fuel filters off and tried a little "easy start" and at certain points when turning the dissy, get a little pop and the fan stops, as if it's trying to fire, but it's just not quite there. I've everything everything I can think of, and now completely stumped. Any ideas? Mk3, 1969 Spitty, Delco dissy.
And while I'm here...
1979 W123 230. Interior dash lights not working. It isn't the fuse. Anyone had a similar problem?
Thanks, as always.
Approximately 10 months ago, I was on the way home in the Spitty, and lost power. The points were slipping so badly due to a worn base plate/thread in the dissy, that I had to literally reset them evey 50 yards, just to get home. That was fun.
Sent the dissy off to be converted to electronic. Came back and car was having none of it. I've now had the dissy converted back to electronic, and had someone who's pretty good with cars to refit it. Unfortunately though, it's still not firing properly. There's voltage to the coil and the dissy and there's a spark from the plugs. Compression is fine, and there's fuel reaching everywhere it should. Tried turning the dissy all ways, resetting the points, and firing order is correct. Had the fuel filters off and tried a little "easy start" and at certain points when turning the dissy, get a little pop and the fan stops, as if it's trying to fire, but it's just not quite there. I've everything everything I can think of, and now completely stumped. Any ideas? Mk3, 1969 Spitty, Delco dissy.
And while I'm here...
1979 W123 230. Interior dash lights not working. It isn't the fuse. Anyone had a similar problem?
Thanks, as always.
Check. New points with proper gap, go for 20thou. is it a new condenser and even the new ones can be faulty, set static timing at about 10btdc and it should run, does it have a good battery and also clean all the plugs as they will now be fouled with fuel and even put the tips over a gas hob or burner to dry them off and warm then prior to attempting to start it.
Also check the dissy cap for cracks, tracking and dirt, is the rotor OK and check the leads are OK
Also check the dissy cap for cracks, tracking and dirt, is the rotor OK and check the leads are OK
Edited by jagracer on Friday 8th May 16:15
jagracer said:
Check. New points with proper gap, go for 20thou. is it a new condenser and even the new ones can be faulty, set static timing at about 10btdc and it should run, does it have a good battery and also clean all the plugs as they will now be fouled with fuel and even put the tips over a gas hob or burner to dry them off and warm then prior to attempting to start it.
Also check the dissy cap for cracks, tracking and dirt, is the rotor OK and check the leads are OK
Thanks. It's all new since it was converted back. Points, cap, arm, all new. HT's were new not long ago. Did try 5btdc, but I'll try a bit more. I'll also clean the plugs then. They were sparking and we tried dipping one in a bit of fuel for an extra boost. Thanks for the advice.Also check the dissy cap for cracks, tracking and dirt, is the rotor OK and check the leads are OK
Edited by jagracer on Friday 8th May 16:15
5deg would be OK, anywhere near that should start it, we are talking stone age engines here compared with modern stuff, I just said 10 as a starting point although that is the specified setting but the grade of petrol will ultimately determine the best setting.
I once spent days replacing everything electrical trying to get a Mk2 Cortina started and in the end it turned out to be the only thing that wasn't new, the plugs which were wet with petrol. BTW 25thou on the plugs
How are you checking you have the timing correct?
Not wishing to teach anyone how to suck eggs but I've been in similar situations myself and a second set of eyes can often sort a problem in minutes.
I once spent days replacing everything electrical trying to get a Mk2 Cortina started and in the end it turned out to be the only thing that wasn't new, the plugs which were wet with petrol. BTW 25thou on the plugs
How are you checking you have the timing correct?
Not wishing to teach anyone how to suck eggs but I've been in similar situations myself and a second set of eyes can often sort a problem in minutes.
Edited by jagracer on Friday 8th May 16:36
Get back to basics and check everything's more or less right.
1. Get the engine to TDC.
2. Cam cover off end rotate engine until the second valve from the front is open. You know now on the suck stage.
3. Keep rotating until the engine reaches TDC. That should be the top of the squeeze stage.
4. Now check under the dizzy cap and the rotor arm should be more or less pointed to the plug lead to #1 spark plug.
Assuming that's all good make sure you're getting a good spark from #1 plug.
If that's good, hook up a timing light and see where you're spark's coming and set the timing.
Hopefully something will have been wrong up to there and you'll at least be trying to run!
Or do what I did with my Spit. when I just couldn't get it to play nice and fit MegaJolt!
1. Get the engine to TDC.
2. Cam cover off end rotate engine until the second valve from the front is open. You know now on the suck stage.
3. Keep rotating until the engine reaches TDC. That should be the top of the squeeze stage.
4. Now check under the dizzy cap and the rotor arm should be more or less pointed to the plug lead to #1 spark plug.
Assuming that's all good make sure you're getting a good spark from #1 plug.
If that's good, hook up a timing light and see where you're spark's coming and set the timing.
Hopefully something will have been wrong up to there and you'll at least be trying to run!
Or do what I did with my Spit. when I just couldn't get it to play nice and fit MegaJolt!
Edited by //j17 on Friday 8th May 17:14
My guess would be that the points spring is shorting current through the base plate. Prove it by making a cardboard insulator pushed over the post that holds the points shoe and lying under the spring.
If that works you'll have to find a permanent solution but at least you get it to start!
If that works you'll have to find a permanent solution but at least you get it to start!
52classic said:
My guess would be that the points spring is shorting current through the base plate. Prove it by making a cardboard insulator pushed over the post that holds the points shoe and lying under the spring.
If that works you'll have to find a permanent solution but at least you get it to start!
Now this is one of the things we did consider (if you mean what I think you do). When it was converted back to points, the guy has used a metal Alan key type screw which protrudes more than the original flat screw would have done. It was kind of a half arsed thought so we briefly wrapped some insulation tape around the new screw. It puffed a bit more than usual but then started smoking so we gave up. Sounds like that might be something else to try again then.If that works you'll have to find a permanent solution but at least you get it to start!
I would go for new plugs just to rule them out.
I had loads of problems trying to get my engine started after fouled/wet plugs and they were newish.they sparked ok out of the engine but it just wouldn't start easily,lots of cranking,pre heating them and even 2 batteries linked up,and it would finally fire but ran ever so lumpy.
fitted new plugs cranked over and fired easy as pie.
it seems some plugs these days are pretty much done for once they get wet or contaminated.
I had loads of problems trying to get my engine started after fouled/wet plugs and they were newish.they sparked ok out of the engine but it just wouldn't start easily,lots of cranking,pre heating them and even 2 batteries linked up,and it would finally fire but ran ever so lumpy.
fitted new plugs cranked over and fired easy as pie.
it seems some plugs these days are pretty much done for once they get wet or contaminated.
Sounds like you have checked all the usual suspects, I would treble check your connections where the condenser clamps to the points. Make sure the plastic insulation bushes are in the correct position and that there is a fibre washer under the points to stop them arking out on the base plate. With all the changes have you fitted a 12v ballast resistor coil ?. There is no resistor in a mk3 wiring loom she needs a full fat 12v coil
Edited by GT6 Jonsey on Friday 8th May 22:29
My thoughts are that if any part of the 'live' side of the points set is closer to the 'earth' of the base plate than the 15-20 thou gap, then you get one 'fire' and then the current takes the shortest route home so it won't fire a second time and therefore won't run.
AIRC this problem began when the points makers started to reduce the depth of the insulating washer on the live post.
AIRC this problem began when the points makers started to reduce the depth of the insulating washer on the live post.
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