Avoiding Buying mistakes with a Rolls Royce Silver Shadow 1
Discussion
Looking for a 1970 through to 1973 model Rolls Royce Silver Shadow in the UK done upto 100,000 miles with service history for past 5/6 yrs. Full service before sale to incl brakes, suspension, hydraulics and electrics. Free Dealer Obligor Warranty for 3 months and option to buy extended warranty.
Minimal rust, mechanically sound with good leather, woodwork, chrome , glass ,bodywork ,paint and tyres. What price should I pay for one ?
Am I missing something which might end up being a costly mistake, if I pay GBP 8000 -10000 for one answering to the above description ?
Minimal rust, mechanically sound with good leather, woodwork, chrome , glass ,bodywork ,paint and tyres. What price should I pay for one ?
Am I missing something which might end up being a costly mistake, if I pay GBP 8000 -10000 for one answering to the above description ?
Thank you for your kind offer. Much appreciated.
Does the RREC advertise cars being sold by members only ,or do Dealers who are also RREC members advertise here ?
I guess the critical issues embedded in my question are :
1] Is it safer to buy through a dealer under some sort of warranty ,or would it be better to take a chance on a Member's preloved car ?
If the latter, what would a RR specialist charge to Inspect a prospective purchase from a RREC member ?
I ask because I had Several expensive Inspections done in Australia [for a RHD 60's classic American car which I cant find in the UK],and ended up finally not buying anything !
If a RR Inspections are expensive,it may just be worth it to buy a car for around GBP 8000 and keep aside GBP 2000 for future repairs,rather than keep rejecting cars because they fail expensive Inspections [all cars that age are bound to to be troublesome at some stage ....except in a RR any mistakes made can be very costly indeed].
2] Buying through a Dealer provides some kind of fallback, but being new to the UK, I am not aware of the level of comfort provided in going through a Dealer.
The other issue of course is that buying through a Dealer means paying top dollar and not having much left over for Repairs etc. Would I be able to find a car of the type listed in my initial posting, for GBP 8000 or would I have to pay more ?
3] Nearly 100,000 miles is an above average mileage for a ‘70-’73 Shadow ,but it would have had a full overhaul of it’s braking ,suspension and hydraulics at the 90000 mile service, so I was thinking a car with a service history for the past 5/6 years with a full service before sale by the Dealer should be a reasonably safe bet if it had minimal rust and was mechanically sound with good leather, woodwork, chrome , glass ,bodywork ,paint and tyres.
Am I missing something from the above list which might end up being a costly mistake later ?
Your views on the foregoing would be greatly appreciated.
Does the RREC advertise cars being sold by members only ,or do Dealers who are also RREC members advertise here ?
I guess the critical issues embedded in my question are :
1] Is it safer to buy through a dealer under some sort of warranty ,or would it be better to take a chance on a Member's preloved car ?
If the latter, what would a RR specialist charge to Inspect a prospective purchase from a RREC member ?
I ask because I had Several expensive Inspections done in Australia [for a RHD 60's classic American car which I cant find in the UK],and ended up finally not buying anything !
If a RR Inspections are expensive,it may just be worth it to buy a car for around GBP 8000 and keep aside GBP 2000 for future repairs,rather than keep rejecting cars because they fail expensive Inspections [all cars that age are bound to to be troublesome at some stage ....except in a RR any mistakes made can be very costly indeed].
2] Buying through a Dealer provides some kind of fallback, but being new to the UK, I am not aware of the level of comfort provided in going through a Dealer.
The other issue of course is that buying through a Dealer means paying top dollar and not having much left over for Repairs etc. Would I be able to find a car of the type listed in my initial posting, for GBP 8000 or would I have to pay more ?
3] Nearly 100,000 miles is an above average mileage for a ‘70-’73 Shadow ,but it would have had a full overhaul of it’s braking ,suspension and hydraulics at the 90000 mile service, so I was thinking a car with a service history for the past 5/6 years with a full service before sale by the Dealer should be a reasonably safe bet if it had minimal rust and was mechanically sound with good leather, woodwork, chrome , glass ,bodywork ,paint and tyres.
Am I missing something from the above list which might end up being a costly mistake later ?
Your views on the foregoing would be greatly appreciated.
Hi.
I think you would be doing very well to find a Silver Shadow that meets all those criteria for less than £10k. Here in the UK a full 'hydraulic service' (the replacement of all hoses and pipes, but NOT the accumulators, valves etc) costs £6k alone. I'd be surprised if a dealer did that, and then sold their car for £10k. With that and the other services they'll make very little money. Maybe you will get lucky. For what it's worth, when looking at the lower-mid end of the market (as you are) I decide what's important; what's difficult and expensive to fix and make sure those things are right. Well, I can't weld or paint so rust is a problem. Rebuilding a RR engine is expensive, so I'd want that to be good too. However, for example, you can compromise on some of the hydraulics, the gearbox and interior because they aren't too expensive to fix. You need to investigate and make your own list.
Just one further note; if you have not already, please read up about the hydraulic suspension/brakes on these cars before you buy one. This is a safety issue and you really should understand it, and know how to check the basic state of the system of any Silver Shadow before you buy it. Ideally before you even drive one.
I think you would be doing very well to find a Silver Shadow that meets all those criteria for less than £10k. Here in the UK a full 'hydraulic service' (the replacement of all hoses and pipes, but NOT the accumulators, valves etc) costs £6k alone. I'd be surprised if a dealer did that, and then sold their car for £10k. With that and the other services they'll make very little money. Maybe you will get lucky. For what it's worth, when looking at the lower-mid end of the market (as you are) I decide what's important; what's difficult and expensive to fix and make sure those things are right. Well, I can't weld or paint so rust is a problem. Rebuilding a RR engine is expensive, so I'd want that to be good too. However, for example, you can compromise on some of the hydraulics, the gearbox and interior because they aren't too expensive to fix. You need to investigate and make your own list.
Just one further note; if you have not already, please read up about the hydraulic suspension/brakes on these cars before you buy one. This is a safety issue and you really should understand it, and know how to check the basic state of the system of any Silver Shadow before you buy it. Ideally before you even drive one.
Edited by varsas on Sunday 23 August 10:51
You're buying a 40 year old car. If you think that the brakes will be in any way original and that a 90k revision is the be all and end all, you are deluded. The hydraulics and brakes will have been replaced many times. Hydraulic pipes rust away, steel ones have about a 10yr life and this generally kills old Citroens. I don't imagine a RR is any different. Maybe CuNiFer pipes last better, maybe RR use copper, either way they have a finite life. Hydraulic seals will never survive 40 years. That's on any car. Brake discs are cast iron, they will either wear out or if little used and not kept in a dehumidified garage they will rust. We are talking 40 years. In addition, 100k in 40 years is 2500 miles a year. I can believe that the current collectors only do this, but the people using them as bargain barges in the late 70s/early 80s weren't. So you are going to have to learn how to spot a good one and pick out the minor glitches from the deal breakers. I would choose a car that had done 100k miles, no brake revision at 90k, but recent evidence of extensive brake repairs and everything looking good, over a similar car that had had it done 10 years/10k miles ago and everything looking 10 years old and half knackered. It's all about condition. In addition, I don't know the market on these but I'd say given the ridiculous heights classic cars have got to that your chances of snagging a 40 year old RR with everything done to the standard you seem to expect for £10k is close to bugger-all. This is a world where a classic car mag I saw yeaterday was suggesting that a good Volvo 360 from 20 years ago was worth £5k. I kid you not. They were crap 20 years ago, I'd hesitate to give you £500 for one now. But that's the market. So a good RR for twice that? Good luck.
Thanks all for the really useful inputs on the RR.
I could live with a car with over average mileage [even well over 100000 miles] ,and only average bodywork and Paintwork, as long as there was Minimal Rust.
Would it be difficult to find a car like this in or around Greater London, with recent service history extending over the past 5/6 years [incl brake repairs] with good chrome, glass and tyres for around GBP 8000 ?
And what would be the deal breakers to avoid if I found a car at this price ?
Been urged to learn how to spot a good 'un. In the absence of this "knowledge ",is it possible to buy a Certified classic from a dealer with whom there is a service history, for around GBP 8000 ?
Alternatively what would a RR specialist charge for an Inspection ?
Sorry for sounding thick, but being new to both the UK and RR's I do need all the help I can get.
I could live with a car with over average mileage [even well over 100000 miles] ,and only average bodywork and Paintwork, as long as there was Minimal Rust.
Would it be difficult to find a car like this in or around Greater London, with recent service history extending over the past 5/6 years [incl brake repairs] with good chrome, glass and tyres for around GBP 8000 ?
And what would be the deal breakers to avoid if I found a car at this price ?
Been urged to learn how to spot a good 'un. In the absence of this "knowledge ",is it possible to buy a Certified classic from a dealer with whom there is a service history, for around GBP 8000 ?
Alternatively what would a RR specialist charge for an Inspection ?
Sorry for sounding thick, but being new to both the UK and RR's I do need all the help I can get.
My late father in law bought a three owner 1975 Shadow 1 with 75K miles in very nice condition that I would occasionally use (in return for doing basis maintenance duties on it) Whilst it had RR service history it was only up to 50K miles or so. I haven't mentioned that this was in 1985, 30 years ago. Even then the car was a 'money pit'. Non RR service was comparitively inexpensive compared with Willesden services, but it was never quite right, the car would never run at its best. He ended up sending to RR at Willesden. First main service was £900 or so. Next service was £700, following services levelled out at about £500 or so. RR services was superb, extremely comprehensive - everything was done perfectly with seemingly silly items like washers and felts replaced. This was 30 years ago. I (as other people have commented) would be surprised if you could get a well maintained example from any dealer or trader for your budget. My suggestion would be to join the relevant owners club, get yourself involved with it and the members socially. Other members will know history of most cars within the club, you will get 'heads-up' on members thinking about selling and stand a far better chance of getting what you desire. Be patient, be prepared to wait months, even years for the right vehicle. Remember that Shadow 1's are not exactly the most fashionable or desireable of cars for 99.9% of the population. Bluntly, unless they have an unusual body or interesting history are unwanted. IMHO if you really want one of these and are prepared for the costs of running one then this is the very reason why you should buy one asap. Just be selective, very selective, extremely selective - then if the owner of the car you've chosen also values his own car more than the 'market' is prepared to pay - just get more finance and buy it before the ridiculous high prices start getting asked for (look at Bristol prices for an example)
Edited by roscobbc on Sunday 23 August 15:58
polara said:
Thanks all for the really useful inputs on the RR.
I could live with a car with over average mileage [even well over 100000 miles] ,and only average bodywork and Paintwork, as long as there was Minimal Rust.
Well, I'm sure you could. But in the UK climate everything goes rusty. In 40 years everything goes very rusty indeed.I could live with a car with over average mileage [even well over 100000 miles] ,and only average bodywork and Paintwork, as long as there was Minimal Rust.
[quote]
Would it be difficult to find a car like this in or around Greater London, with recent service history extending over the past 5/6 years [incl brake repairs] with good chrome, glass and tyres for around GBP 8000 ?
[quote]And what would be the deal breakers to avoid if I found a car at this price ?
[quote]Been urged to learn how to spot a good 'un. In the absence of this "knowledge ",is it possible to buy a Certified classic from a dealer with whom there is a service history, for around GBP 8000 ?
As others have said, join the club, see what you get. You might get a nice surprise from someone who has done most of the work you want. Not all, but most, maybe. Good luck.
Grateful for all your views.
Clearly even a car with above average mileage [well over 100,000 miles] ,and only average bodywork and Paintwork [but Minimal Rust] , is not going to be available from a Dealer for around GBP 8000 with 5/6 years service history with them [ recent one incl brakes, suspension, hydraulics and electric], and which is mechanically sound with good leather, woodwork, chrome ,glass and tyres .
Would GBP 10000 be enough to buy a similar Certified one from a dealer [free Warranty for 90 days and option to buy an extended warranty] ?
And what would a RR specialist charge for an Inspection of a private vehicle ?
Many thanks for blowing away a lot of cobwebs in my mind.
Clearly even a car with above average mileage [well over 100,000 miles] ,and only average bodywork and Paintwork [but Minimal Rust] , is not going to be available from a Dealer for around GBP 8000 with 5/6 years service history with them [ recent one incl brakes, suspension, hydraulics and electric], and which is mechanically sound with good leather, woodwork, chrome ,glass and tyres .
Would GBP 10000 be enough to buy a similar Certified one from a dealer [free Warranty for 90 days and option to buy an extended warranty] ?
And what would a RR specialist charge for an Inspection of a private vehicle ?
Many thanks for blowing away a lot of cobwebs in my mind.
Have you got any experience of classic cars or running/buying older cars in general? No disrespect but you seem very inexperienced and idealistic as to what's out there. I keep saying this, it's a 40yo car. Just throwing another £2k into the hat will not get you a cast iron assurance of anything. As for a warranty, I don't think anyone will sell you any sort of warranty that's worth anything for a 40 yo car. If I didn't have experience of classic cars I wouldn't start with a RR unless I had money put aside for repairs and knowledge of the model.
I will not dispute the total quality of a RR Shadow 1 against any car from that period. However there is a lot of needless 'over-engineering' in these cars. The brakes when properly maintained were the very best brakes of any car from the period (two sets of calipers per front wheel? wtf!) - yet RR chose to license a Citroen high pressure weird and wonderful braking system with all its peculiarities. RR's have steel body shells and have a negative earth electrical system - all perfectly normal, yet they chose to run separate earth leads to all electrical items rather than to the body or frame of the car like other maker. Ever seen inside one of the combined ignition/light switch? - it was of a marine standard c/w brass cog wheels and components. Fantastic British engineering, largely for engineering's sake.
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