Diesel Classic Cars
Discussion
I was pondering as the likelihood of diesel classic cars finding their place in our garages.
I have this rather dated and biased view that diesel has it's place in trucks, vans and tractors however with 80's & 90's cars now firmly established as part of the classic scene are badges that include "d" going to become as desirable as those that contain "i"?
Regardless as to the fact that diesel has had a real coming of age somehow I just can't see that future classic car enthusiasts will be loving oil burners with the same affection as their petrol engine counterparts. Am I wrong?
I have this rather dated and biased view that diesel has it's place in trucks, vans and tractors however with 80's & 90's cars now firmly established as part of the classic scene are badges that include "d" going to become as desirable as those that contain "i"?
Regardless as to the fact that diesel has had a real coming of age somehow I just can't see that future classic car enthusiasts will be loving oil burners with the same affection as their petrol engine counterparts. Am I wrong?
bristolracer said:
Think there is some love for Merc diesels, 190s spring to mind, glacial slow but simply will never ever stop
Modern stuff is too complex I cant see much of it surviving.
The Merc 190 diesel is a perfect example and probably changed the corporate perception of Diesels Modern stuff is too complex I cant see much of it surviving.
Edited by bristolracer on Thursday 29th October 23:03
even today a great buy if you can find a good one as a young man it was the car I aspired to however when I managed to buy my first one the 190 had just been replaced with the C Class so I bought one of the early ones I did nearly 200 000 miles in it not built to the engineering tolerances of the 190 though still a good car and 22 years later have had 6 different Mec Diesels and close to a Million Miles
Andrew
I'm sure they'll become classics eventually, but certain recent petrol models are already rare & likely to appreciate more I think. I struggled to find a 530D E61 BMW anywhere in the northeast recently, let alone a 530i. Virtually all available E61 estates are 520D's. I ended up with a C180K Kompressor estate (petrol), but they're a fairly rare beast too - most available W204 Mercs are 2.1 diesels in varying degrees of tune.
Keep it stiff said:
I was pondering as the likelihood of diesel classic cars finding their place in our garages.
I have this rather dated and biased view that diesel has it's place in trucks, vans and tractors however with 80's & 90's cars now firmly established as part of the classic scene are badges that include "d" going to become as desirable as those that contain "i"?
Regardless as to the fact that diesel has had a real coming of age somehow I just can't see that future classic car enthusiasts will be loving oil burners with the same affection as their petrol engine counterparts. Am I wrong?
I see in the first issue of that new "Modern Classics" mag one of the writers has a C6 2.7 HDI as his modern classic. He did pretty much everything he could to NOT say it was a diesel in the article - never mentioned it once.I have this rather dated and biased view that diesel has it's place in trucks, vans and tractors however with 80's & 90's cars now firmly established as part of the classic scene are badges that include "d" going to become as desirable as those that contain "i"?
Regardless as to the fact that diesel has had a real coming of age somehow I just can't see that future classic car enthusiasts will be loving oil burners with the same affection as their petrol engine counterparts. Am I wrong?
I seen a 1998 Passat 1.9 TDI S with 44K miles made £1500 at a trade auction i've access to. Was thinking - did someone buy that to keep or is it just because its a low miles pre DPF & DMF diesel that'll run forever?
rsv696 said:
I'm sure they'll become classics eventually, but certain recent petrol models are already rare & likely to appreciate more I think. I struggled to find a 530D E61 BMW anywhere in the northeast recently, let alone a 530i. Virtually all available E61 estates are 520D's. I ended up with a C180K Kompressor estate (petrol), but they're a fairly rare beast too - most available W204 Mercs are 2.1 diesels in varying degrees of tune.
535D M Sport will be the one to have of the early diesel E60s. Or a 530D M Sport e39.The Peugeot 205 D-Turbo are becoming more sort after, being the first diesel hot hatch. I'm not sure about prices compared to the GTi because most D-Turbo's that come up for sale are a bit ropey and have done lots of miles. They seem to go for around £1000-£1500, so similar money to a ropey GTi.
There is something about these earlier turbo diesels compared to the later common rail diesels that I find appealing. I think it's their simple design. It kind of like pre-fuel injected cars, they are more accessible to home mechanics, with out the need for a laptop.
I'm currently on the look out for a Peugeot 205 van. Stick a 1.9 TD engine in it along with a GTi front sub frame and I'll have a fun little van that should be able to keep up with a GTi, return 50mpg and I can use it for small jobs at work, so should be tax deductible.
There is something about these earlier turbo diesels compared to the later common rail diesels that I find appealing. I think it's their simple design. It kind of like pre-fuel injected cars, they are more accessible to home mechanics, with out the need for a laptop.
I'm currently on the look out for a Peugeot 205 van. Stick a 1.9 TD engine in it along with a GTi front sub frame and I'll have a fun little van that should be able to keep up with a GTi, return 50mpg and I can use it for small jobs at work, so should be tax deductible.
esso said:
Standard did the Vanguard in the 1950`s with a diesel engine but there are very few survivors I believe. In the days before they were turbo`d they were painfully slow and perceived to be dirty and smelly....that hasn`t changed has it?
There's also the Austin/Morris Cambridge/Oxford fitted with a Perkins 4108/7; as said they were glacially slow with a whopping ~40hp from the oil burner.Of the neoclassics I'd pick the Pug 306 turbodiesel, any BX/Xantia turbodiesels and maybe the Montego/Maestro TD as being fairly ubiquitous in period but nearly extinct now, all being mechanically rugged if lacking in rust resistance.
PositronicRay said:
The thing people run classic cars because it's fun, early diesels just weren't enjoyable.
Once they started turbocharging diesels, they became a serious alternative to a petrol engine. Before this diesels where fairly under powered, but so where a lot of petrol engines to be fair. I think there will be a place for most engines in someone's collections. Just look at steam engines and 2 strokes.
xstian said:
Once they started turbocharging diesels, they became a serious alternative to a petrol engine. Before this diesels where fairly under powered, but so where a lot of petrol engines to be fair.
I think there will be a place for most engines in someone's collections. Just look at steam engines and 2 strokes.
Early non turbo diesels aren't just slow, they're horrible to drive, unrefined, narrow power band, lacking in charm. The economy advantage helped sales back in the day, but is of little relevance today. Most models were offered in petrol and diesel so where's the draw.I think there will be a place for most engines in someone's collections. Just look at steam engines and 2 strokes.
I can see them being of interest to a collector, just not the average classic car enthusiast (whatever that is)
PositronicRay said:
Early non turbo diesels aren't just slow, they're horrible to drive, unrefined, narrow power band, lacking in charm. The economy advantage helped sales back in the day, but is of little relevance today.
In my experience you could say all that about the early turbo-diesels as well, no economy advantage but possibly marginally more reliable.My classic - 1961 Land Rover 88" Diesel.
I've chosen a Diesel in 1994, as this was my first -and only- car and I had to pay for fuel. Diesel is cheaper than petrol in Germany, and consumption in the 2¼ Diesel is considerable lower than in the same-size petrol engine. Roughly, fuel cost me half as much since I've chosen a Diesel. Today, I'd go for a petrol since it's easier to service and lower annual mileage as a third car doesn't make that big difference.
I've chosen a Diesel in 1994, as this was my first -and only- car and I had to pay for fuel. Diesel is cheaper than petrol in Germany, and consumption in the 2¼ Diesel is considerable lower than in the same-size petrol engine. Roughly, fuel cost me half as much since I've chosen a Diesel. Today, I'd go for a petrol since it's easier to service and lower annual mileage as a third car doesn't make that big difference.
To be a bit of an anorak as usual, both Lagonda(before the War) and Jaguar flirted with Gardner diesels. I think these engines were pretty sophisticated for their time with alloy blocks and so forth to keep down weight, but reduced performance and lack of customer interest killed both experiments.
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