Headlight bulbs?
Discussion
RobinSherwood said:
Try Better Car Lighting - they are very knowledgable about LED for classic cars and the bulbs are mostly higher quality than some of the far east made stuff you get.
Talk to Gil Keane, as above. Highly knowledgeable, far superior product and correctly priced...Gil/BCL really understands the classic/vinatge car market and has proper product including soft glow and 6v vintage LED's. crankedup said:
My vintage car is fitted with the old filament type bulbs, quite useless in the dark even when switched on! Can I simply fit Halagon bulbs in the sockets?
It's not quite that simple crankedup. Unless you've converted it, your old car won't have an alternator and the dynamo won't cope with a modern style halogen bulb. You may be able to get an LED to suit an older car.These guys are your best bet :- http://www.dynamoregulatorconversions.com/online-s...
J
From previous experience rather than just uprating the bulbs fit a couple of relays as well, one for each of dip/main beam. Otherwise the current has to go through the light switch and dip switch and wiring loom which may be past their best. Even with new cars in the 70's & 80's I used to do this, there was a noticeable difference in the light output even with standard bulbs.
Don't forget to put inline fuses
Don't forget to put inline fuses
Thanks again to all posters for advise and links, very helpful. My car has indeed the old 7'' headlight reflector bowls, but I do want to keep them original. Had a good look at the wiring and it is not in best condition, looks like a lights upgrade is going to lead to a re-wire, regulator dynamo conversion now. Better than catching fire!!
The caps are of the BA15 type with a weird plastic threaded section moulded to the base of the cap. This pushes through the aperture in the reflector bowl and the wires are attached through the plastic section, the whole ensemble then held in place with a plastic plate which I thread onto the plastic base of cap. (can't do images on here unfortunately)
The caps are of the BA15 type with a weird plastic threaded section moulded to the base of the cap. This pushes through the aperture in the reflector bowl and the wires are attached through the plastic section, the whole ensemble then held in place with a plastic plate which I thread onto the plastic base of cap. (can't do images on here unfortunately)
Edited by crankedup on Friday 11th December 11:50
dig123 said:
LED may be better as use less power and very bright.
Please DO NOT FIT THESE.I work in light,
The reflector (or headlight bowl) is designed for a particular lamp source, is the lamp source size, position, and photo metric output. Change any of these factors and you will alter the beam spread.
Whilst the HIDs maybe brighter on the retrofits, the reflectors and lenses are not designed for these, so the cut off angles are not there. The rules relating to the beam pattern of car headlights have been around for a while, are well documented, and developed for a reason.
The LED retrofits will be even worse, as they relly upon multi point source emission.
Don't be selfish and fit these just so that YOU can see better, you will be causing glare to other road users. Glare is as disabling as looking at the sun. Please don't do it.
it's an error to judge a beam pattern solely by its cutoff (which is all an MOT checks for) In many lamps, especially the projector types, the cutoff will remain the same regardless of what light source is behind it. Halogen bulb, HID capsule, cigarette lighter, firefly, hold it up to the sun—whatever. That's because of the way a projector lamp works. The cutoff is simply the projected image of a piece of metal running side-to-side behind the lens. Where the optics come in is in distributing the light under the cutoff. And, as with all other automotive lamps (and, in fact, all optical instruments), the optics are calculated based not just on where the light source is within the lamp (focal length) but also the specific photometric characteristics of the light source...which parts of it are brighter, which parts of it are darker, where the boundaries of the light source are, whether the boundaries are sharp or fuzzy, the shape of the light source, and so forth.
And to be honest These company's are so stupid as to offer these without doing proper investigation (polar curve and photometric tests........or a simple MOT) They even state on the website "very effective at moving traffic on the nurbergring"......... Well the reason for that is that you are glaring all the drivers in front, in their rear view mirrors, blinding them,so they would rather pull over than crash because of their stupid headlight conversion.
From an Car lover who works with light........don't.
If you want to improve things.......... here's my advice;
Make sure the reflectors are not flaking, pitted or rusted, you want to convert as much of the lamp lumens, to light output from the headlight.
Ignore lamp wattages, these are a measurement of power not light output (lumens or in the USA candelas). An aftermarket Chinese import 100watt rally grade light bulb, may have less lumens than a high quality lamp from a known manufacturer....... Like say Osram, Bosch, Philips, ring, hella (no I don't work for any of these).
Glass has a higher light output ratio than plastic, so a glass fronted headlight will covert more light than say a polycarbonate one.......... However... Modern reflector and lens designs and technology are way better than what was available when our 60's / 70's cars were new, so a modern polycarbonate headlight will be better than an origenal.
A conversion to H4 compatible headlight units would be a good idea, as there is more availability of very high quality and higher than standard output lamps available.
Bear in mind that the really high output H4 type lamps (eg osram night breaker), have a much shorter lifetime than standard h4 lamps, but this isn't a problem for me on classic cars, as they are not used as much as daily drivers. (The plus version of the above Osram lamp has gold contacts, which actually extends. He life).
Make sure the lamps are getting as much voltage as possible, install a relay to bypass all the headlight power from going through the column switch. And have a decent battery / alternator system.....look for 12.5+ volts on the lamp terminals.
You could change to higher colour temperature lamps 3000k plus, as the standard H1 lamps are very warm, this affects our photopic and scotopic vision, we see more detail and can react better, and some think need less light to see when using our colour cones, rather than our black and white rods (which operate at night, but have less resolution). However there is no point going above 4000kelvin, as lights above this colour temp range are purely for aesthetic, or to make people think you have HIDS.
Don't wear sunglasses at night.
Read the below;
Department for Transport
"In the Department's view it is not legal to sell or use after market HID lighting kits, for converting conventional Halogen headlamps to HID Xenon. If a customer wants to convert his vehicle to Xenon HID he must purchase completely new Xenon HID headlamps. The reason for this is that the existing lens and reflector are designed around a Halogen filament bulb, working to very precise tolerances. If one places an HID "burner" (bulb) in the headlamp, the beam pattern will not be correct, there will be glare in some places and not enough light in other places within the beam pattern.
The following is the legal rationale:
The Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 regulate the situation in the UK.
Under these Regulations, HID/Gas Discharge/Xenon headlamps are not mentioned and therefore they are not permitted according to the strict letter of the law.
However new vehicles have HID headlamps. This is because they comply to European type approval Regulations. The UK cannot refuse to register a vehicle with a European type approval. These are to ECE Regulation 98 (for the HID headlamps which are tested on a rig in a laboratory) and ECE Regulation 48 (Lighting Installation on the vehicle).
For the after market, a used vehicle cannot obtain type approval because it is only applicable for new vehicles. However we feel that saying "HID is banned in the after market" would not be reasonable. Instead we should make analogies with new vehicles. It would be reasonable to require HID in the after market to meet the same safety standards as on new vehicles. The same level of safety should apply.
Therefore a HID headlamp unit sold in the after market should:
1. be type approved to ECE Regulation 98 as a component.
2. when fitted to the vehicle should enable ECE Regulation 48 to be complied with (although no government inspection will take place).
3. Comply with RVLR as far as "use" is concerned.
In practice this means:
1. The headlamp unit (outer lens, reflector, bulb) shall be type approved to ECE 98 and be "e-marked" to demonstrate this. That can only be done by the headlamp supplier - Hella, Valeo etc. who must test the headlamp in an independent laboratory.
2. Once fitted to the vehicle it must have headlamp cleaning and self-levelling (which can be for the headlamp or can be in the vehicle suspension - some expensive estate cars have "self-levelling suspension" and that is adequate). Also the dipped beam must stay on with the main beam.
3. The headlamp must be maintained in good working order, kept clean, and aligned/adjusted correctly like any other headlamp.
Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is an offence to supply, fit or use vehicle parts which are not legal.
In summary it is not permitted to convert an existing halogen headlamp unit for use with HID bulbs. The entire headlamp unit must be replaced with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs and it must be installed in accordance with the rules stated above."
UK Police Official Line
Yes these are illegal. The fine for having such modifications to a vehicle is up to £2500. However we do have some head room on this and for example some time this will be resolved as a fixed penalty if it is a first offence.
Please pull them off the market, unless you can sell them as a complete kit with lenses etc..... that comply to points 1/2/3 above.
Ps: I upgraded the lamps in the rear of my fuel and water temp gauges to LED versions, from the best manufacturer I know (called in a freebie favour), however they have made no difference (the polar curve was all wrong.........too much light projected forwards, not sideways like the old filament lamp). The problems lies with how the light is distributed within the gauge.....so I need to ake them gauge apart and do more investigation.
Jamie, thank you for taking the time and trouble in offering a full concise advisory, I hadn't considered any of the implications that you have described. Ignorance is bliss, but in this instance I am happy to be educated. Based upon your imparted knowledge I have now decided to leave the headlights completely alone and standard. However I may consider fitting a couple of modern spot or fog lights onto the light bar of the car purely on a needs must basis. I can then remove these when I am not night driving. How does that sound?
jamieandthemagic said:
Modern reflector and lens designs and technology are way better than what was available when our 60's / 70's cars were new, so a modern polycarbonate headlight will be better than an original.
The OP's question was about vintage cars from the 1920's. The main issue is that the dynamo is geared at half engine speed - mine is on the magneto drive. The engine speed is lower and the dynamo is also really limited to about 10A. Even changing from 3 brush to 2 brush with voltage regulation, the current is limited. The original headlight bulbs are 36W each, so 6A out of the max 10A is used. So adding higher power consumption bulbs is not attractive. Using LEDs in the side and tail lights has it attractions. The various LED suppliers have boards that fit divers helmets and pork pies.Headlights are more difficult, on mine (Rotax) the bulb holder has a limited a focus adjustment mechanism, but I think more reach is required for modern style bulbs or LED units.
Currently the VSCC forum is debating various options for their Measham night rally, two batteries, extra driving lights, modern units inserted in to old shells and LEDs are among the options, - alternators are banned in the technical regulations.
Not sure what the best answer is currently, but a slower older car needs to be seen at night. Correctly focused optics using LED sources in an old shell would appear to be the ideal, but this doesn't appear to be readily available.
Should have said this earlier, sorry
You've not said what vintage car you are using, but quite a few Morgan 3 wheeler owners, myself included, use these headlights:
http://www.s-v-c.co.uk/product/5-3-4--free-standin...
Polished stainless is not quite as in your face as chrome, although not as yellow as nickel.
My Morgan three wheeler came with headlights that weren't original, weren't very good and took bulbs you'd have to mail order too. So the use of other units was not a hard decision to make.
I had a problem with power consumption and battery charging with 60/40 bulbs, but Halfords had on their shelves, some near H4 headlight bulbs that have the same focus but are 35/35 watts, and just require a bit of action from a pair of tin snips to fit the base. You can buy H4 35/35 bulbs but they cost more and you'd have to mail order them in all probability too. In terms of light output, much more than originals, but not of course up to the arms race standards of some modern cars.
I've converted to 12v, much simpler and better than the period 6v.
You've not said what vintage car you are using, but quite a few Morgan 3 wheeler owners, myself included, use these headlights:
http://www.s-v-c.co.uk/product/5-3-4--free-standin...
Polished stainless is not quite as in your face as chrome, although not as yellow as nickel.
My Morgan three wheeler came with headlights that weren't original, weren't very good and took bulbs you'd have to mail order too. So the use of other units was not a hard decision to make.
I had a problem with power consumption and battery charging with 60/40 bulbs, but Halfords had on their shelves, some near H4 headlight bulbs that have the same focus but are 35/35 watts, and just require a bit of action from a pair of tin snips to fit the base. You can buy H4 35/35 bulbs but they cost more and you'd have to mail order them in all probability too. In terms of light output, much more than originals, but not of course up to the arms race standards of some modern cars.
I've converted to 12v, much simpler and better than the period 6v.
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