Dealing with bodywork corrosion - a dying skill?
Discussion
Hi,
I've been saving my pennies for some bodywork on my classic. Now, some rust has crept in above the windscreen roofline and as such needs to be cut out and repaired etc. I spoke to a mate who runs an insurance approved repair bodyshop, and he told me there's only 2 guys in his workshop who are capable of repairing corrosion the old way, cutting out, welding in and slopping some tin lead or isopon in to smooth it out and make the repair invisible to the general public. Basically all his apprentices have been tought panel replacement, paint matching and the odd re jig which is usually done under the watchful eye of his foreman.
Most of the smaller stuff like scratches and dings he tends to farm out anyway because he's not geared up for small jobs anymore. We got chatting and agreed that panel beating is these days not a very glamourous option for a school leaver, and most of the kids who do go into it end up with the large companies doing insurance stuff which is mostly, panel replacement etc. Kids leaving school don't really want to work in a backstreet garage these days, apparently.
There are of course several local smaller body shops who could do it, but again, finding someone to do it right is always going to be a challenge. He put me onto an "old boy" who isn't very quick at getting things done, but his work is good. Given that it's taken me a few years to get this far, another few months isn't going to hurt I guess.
My other question is that there will of course be some filler used, but the car is kept in a dehumidified garage all year round, so can I reasonably assume it won't come bubbling through within 6 months?. Has the technology advanced enough from the bodges I did on my old Capri so when I slam the door a huge chunk of halfords painted blue filler doesn't end up on the floor?.
I've been saving my pennies for some bodywork on my classic. Now, some rust has crept in above the windscreen roofline and as such needs to be cut out and repaired etc. I spoke to a mate who runs an insurance approved repair bodyshop, and he told me there's only 2 guys in his workshop who are capable of repairing corrosion the old way, cutting out, welding in and slopping some tin lead or isopon in to smooth it out and make the repair invisible to the general public. Basically all his apprentices have been tought panel replacement, paint matching and the odd re jig which is usually done under the watchful eye of his foreman.
Most of the smaller stuff like scratches and dings he tends to farm out anyway because he's not geared up for small jobs anymore. We got chatting and agreed that panel beating is these days not a very glamourous option for a school leaver, and most of the kids who do go into it end up with the large companies doing insurance stuff which is mostly, panel replacement etc. Kids leaving school don't really want to work in a backstreet garage these days, apparently.
There are of course several local smaller body shops who could do it, but again, finding someone to do it right is always going to be a challenge. He put me onto an "old boy" who isn't very quick at getting things done, but his work is good. Given that it's taken me a few years to get this far, another few months isn't going to hurt I guess.
My other question is that there will of course be some filler used, but the car is kept in a dehumidified garage all year round, so can I reasonably assume it won't come bubbling through within 6 months?. Has the technology advanced enough from the bodges I did on my old Capri so when I slam the door a huge chunk of halfords painted blue filler doesn't end up on the floor?.
texaxile said:
Hi,
I've been saving my pennies for some bodywork on my classic. Now, some rust has crept in above the windscreen roofline and as such needs to be cut out and repaired etc. I spoke to a mate who runs an insurance approved repair bodyshop, and he told me there's only 2 guys in his workshop who are capable of repairing corrosion the old way, cutting out, welding in and slopping some tin lead or isopon in to smooth it out and make the repair invisible to the general public. Basically all his apprentices have been tought panel replacement, paint matching and the odd re jig which is usually done under the watchful eye of his foreman.
Most of the smaller stuff like scratches and dings he tends to farm out anyway because he's not geared up for small jobs anymore. We got chatting and agreed that panel beating is these days not a very glamourous option for a school leaver, and most of the kids who do go into it end up with the large companies doing insurance stuff which is mostly, panel replacement etc. Kids leaving school don't really want to work in a backstreet garage these days, apparently.
There are of course several local smaller body shops who could do it, but again, finding someone to do it right is always going to be a challenge. He put me onto an "old boy" who isn't very quick at getting things done, but his work is good. Given that it's taken me a few years to get this far, another few months isn't going to hurt I guess.
My other question is that there will of course be some filler used, but the car is kept in a dehumidified garage all year round, so can I reasonably assume it won't come bubbling through within 6 months?. Has the technology advanced enough from the bodges I did on my old Capri so when I slam the door a huge chunk of halfords painted blue filler doesn't end up on the floor?.
Best bet is to get your mate who runs the insurance approved workshop to do it.I've been saving my pennies for some bodywork on my classic. Now, some rust has crept in above the windscreen roofline and as such needs to be cut out and repaired etc. I spoke to a mate who runs an insurance approved repair bodyshop, and he told me there's only 2 guys in his workshop who are capable of repairing corrosion the old way, cutting out, welding in and slopping some tin lead or isopon in to smooth it out and make the repair invisible to the general public. Basically all his apprentices have been tought panel replacement, paint matching and the odd re jig which is usually done under the watchful eye of his foreman.
Most of the smaller stuff like scratches and dings he tends to farm out anyway because he's not geared up for small jobs anymore. We got chatting and agreed that panel beating is these days not a very glamourous option for a school leaver, and most of the kids who do go into it end up with the large companies doing insurance stuff which is mostly, panel replacement etc. Kids leaving school don't really want to work in a backstreet garage these days, apparently.
There are of course several local smaller body shops who could do it, but again, finding someone to do it right is always going to be a challenge. He put me onto an "old boy" who isn't very quick at getting things done, but his work is good. Given that it's taken me a few years to get this far, another few months isn't going to hurt I guess.
My other question is that there will of course be some filler used, but the car is kept in a dehumidified garage all year round, so can I reasonably assume it won't come bubbling through within 6 months?. Has the technology advanced enough from the bodges I did on my old Capri so when I slam the door a huge chunk of halfords painted blue filler doesn't end up on the floor?.
Depending on the value of your classic and therefore the amount you are prepared to pay for the work.
If it is done properly by a craftsman then there will be no bubbling or issues. It is worth remembering that some 'classics' were constructed with designed-in rust traps to encourage rapid corrosion!
Paint is a thin sealant not an anti corrosion protectant. That is why modern cars are phosphate dipped etc, etc, before they are painted. You could have the welding repairs completed and then have the complete body treated with corrosion inhibitors before the 'filler' stage.
Most people underestimate the amount of time and effort that goes into a good paint job. I built by own paint booth and now do my own (including the body repairs) because I know a decent paint job will be £6k to £10k plus the metal work. It is another 'skill' I have gained in my old age.
If it is done properly by a craftsman then there will be no bubbling or issues. It is worth remembering that some 'classics' were constructed with designed-in rust traps to encourage rapid corrosion!
Paint is a thin sealant not an anti corrosion protectant. That is why modern cars are phosphate dipped etc, etc, before they are painted. You could have the welding repairs completed and then have the complete body treated with corrosion inhibitors before the 'filler' stage.
Most people underestimate the amount of time and effort that goes into a good paint job. I built by own paint booth and now do my own (including the body repairs) because I know a decent paint job will be £6k to £10k plus the metal work. It is another 'skill' I have gained in my old age.
Ask around. There are still a few bodyshops that can lead load in the old way and in any event you'll be surprised just how good a proper panel beater can be. With that, and proper welded repairs where needed, you can get a car that was full of dents with no plastic filler at all.
I bought a cheap panel beating kit from an autojumble, practised on a few bits and set to. Not with the speed of a professional but I now can both stretch and shrink metal. A very, very satisfying thing to do.
I bought a cheap panel beating kit from an autojumble, practised on a few bits and set to. Not with the speed of a professional but I now can both stretch and shrink metal. A very, very satisfying thing to do.
my 964 is going in for a respray in a couple of weeks...after getting a few quotes from "reputable" body shops only one place talked about cutting out the rot, welding in new metal and lead loading the repair...a few grand more than the others who had a cursory look and plucked a figure out of thin air - but the confidence that I will get a pretty decent job swayed my decision!!
Yes, I'd find that the reassuring choice too, and I very much agree that it's hard to find body shops these days who do proper metalwork rather than simply painting replacement panels or respraying existing sheet metal. Hope it all goes well with the 964.
Do let us know how it goes. A good body shop with a full range of fabrication skills is always worth knowing about.
Do let us know how it goes. A good body shop with a full range of fabrication skills is always worth knowing about.
Insurance approved body shops won,t be intersted in rusty cars don,t even look there,they just won,t the easy jobs.youve got to look at the small independent garages for that sort of work theres still plenty of good body shops around.get you self down to your local classic car meeting places and chat to the owners to see who they use is my advice and go and have a look at there work and see how they do it....
woodypup59 said:
You need to find an independent man or small company who specialise in your marque.
But be prepared to pay £30 per hour or more.
Add to that the cost / quality / availability of the replacement panels they use.
A good man will always have a long queue.
Very true re. length of queue and costs though a competent restorer ought to be able to work on any marque. At the moment, a good friend of mine is restoring his own pre-war Lagonda though in his workshop I have also seen monocoque cars from the 60s, an Aston Martin DB2, numerous pre and post war Rileys and other wood-framed cars.But be prepared to pay £30 per hour or more.
Add to that the cost / quality / availability of the replacement panels they use.
A good man will always have a long queue.
Bodyshops round here are the bane of my life! I had quite a bit done on my Bentley last year by a 'reputable' place and it has lacquer lifting in places already! It wasn't even cheap....
A few weeks ago on the gales, a bin blew over the wall straight into the front wing, large and sharp dent that a dent man cannot get to so round the bodyshops we went.
One that was recommended said he didn't want to get involved with that car.
Another said 'I can do 5 smart repairs in the time it will take to do that!' so I said ' charge me for the 5 smart repairs then' and he walked off in disgust!
Finding a place was... problematic! it's now in with a chap who does seem to be busy and has a lot of classic cars to do/has done on his website. I hope it turns out properly. Yes, I am worried!
A few weeks ago on the gales, a bin blew over the wall straight into the front wing, large and sharp dent that a dent man cannot get to so round the bodyshops we went.
One that was recommended said he didn't want to get involved with that car.
Another said 'I can do 5 smart repairs in the time it will take to do that!' so I said ' charge me for the 5 smart repairs then' and he walked off in disgust!
Finding a place was... problematic! it's now in with a chap who does seem to be busy and has a lot of classic cars to do/has done on his website. I hope it turns out properly. Yes, I am worried!
PositronicRay said:
We have a local very well regarded place. They have one man who can do this sort of work and lead load. The boss tells me when he retires this sort of work will stop.
The friend I mentioned previously is finding it very difficult to get skilled men. If I was younger I'd think about learning the skills but at 66 I think I'm a bit too old to be useful to him...Stripped:
Dipped:
Unstitched:
Finished:
Full build pictureboard:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.72916985...
Dying skill? Yes.
Dipped:
Unstitched:
Finished:
Full build pictureboard:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.72916985...
Dying skill? Yes.
Glassman you might have warned me to put the kettle on and open a large pack of Rich Tea before I clicked on the 937 photo media link. I'm only quarter way thorugh it and it's been the best part of an hour already!
Brilliant craftsmanship on display there, and an epic build. The end result speaks for itself, the paintwork looks like glass.
ETA: Were those brand new RFX Revolutions?. If so, I'm after a set of 15's for my Lancer, I know the PCD and offset, did you find the guys at RFX very helpful when you asked them?.
Cheers
Pete
Brilliant craftsmanship on display there, and an epic build. The end result speaks for itself, the paintwork looks like glass.
ETA: Were those brand new RFX Revolutions?. If so, I'm after a set of 15's for my Lancer, I know the PCD and offset, did you find the guys at RFX very helpful when you asked them?.
Cheers
Pete
Edited by texaxile on Tuesday 5th April 21:32
Hi - my family are all in the motortrade, my dad is a panel beater and started at BRM in the 70's
In short the answer is that.... Panel beaters get paid very little - 10 pound an hour would be a decent rate outside of London.
It's a real skill and takes years to perfect - so for many it's a bad investment.
It's compounded by smart repairs - these are a sales bodge and not designed to last. Also very few of the smart repairs are trained panel beaters - the job looks awful to a trained eye as the repairer has never learned what a proper job is.
And further compounded by people not wanting to pay properly for work - think how much a mechanic charges to fix a small problem.
PM me if you want the contacts of a good body shop in Peterborough!
In short the answer is that.... Panel beaters get paid very little - 10 pound an hour would be a decent rate outside of London.
It's a real skill and takes years to perfect - so for many it's a bad investment.
It's compounded by smart repairs - these are a sales bodge and not designed to last. Also very few of the smart repairs are trained panel beaters - the job looks awful to a trained eye as the repairer has never learned what a proper job is.
And further compounded by people not wanting to pay properly for work - think how much a mechanic charges to fix a small problem.
PM me if you want the contacts of a good body shop in Peterborough!
A reasonably close neighbour of mine went into business doing bodywork repairs, I took my old Sportshatch to him and he did a great repair on the rear quarter panel. Then word got around that he was good, and the local BMW dealer (who didn't have a bodyshop at the time, they were quite new) started sending their work to him, next thing you know that's all he does because, as he said, there's no rust to worry about, no fiddling trying to find panels, just phone the dealer up and quote which parts the car needs, stick them on when they arrive, paint them, job done. You can see from a business point of view why he'd take that course.
But it is a pity that these skills are dying out. On the one hand we've now got an increasing number of places that will dip a bodyshell, but a seemingly decreasing number of places that will do something with it once the corrosion is gone. No problem for those with Aston, Porsche etc. budgets, but a problem in the middle ground.
But it is a pity that these skills are dying out. On the one hand we've now got an increasing number of places that will dip a bodyshell, but a seemingly decreasing number of places that will do something with it once the corrosion is gone. No problem for those with Aston, Porsche etc. budgets, but a problem in the middle ground.
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