None running Triumph Spitfire

[TheLordJohn]

Hi all.

I am a diesel mechanic but been roped into looking at someones 1972 Spitfire.
He has had a head gasket replacement done a few months ago (head machined etc) and it hasn't ran properly since.
Not starting at all now i have come to look at it.

Now I have turned number 1 to Power, and the timing on the crack pulley is at around 8 degrees after TDC, static.
I haven't got a strobe light, which i don't think is required at the minute as it isn't even running.
So with 1 on Power, and number 4 on the rock, the rotor arm is pointing at number 4...
From my understanding, I should have the rotor arm trying to send a spark to number 1 at that point.
So has the distributor been refitted 180 degrees out?

Any and all help appreciated/required!

Thanks in advance, Stuart.

[//j17]

Quite easy to fit the dizzy 180 out on a Spitfire. Moving the plug leads around is the easiest way to check.

[TheLordJohn]

How so?
(moving leads to check).

[Slidingpillar]

I've not got the figures for that engine, but I'd be very, very surprised if the static timing was supposed to be 8 degrees after TDC. Same figure before TDC would be my suspicion, but even if the ignition was 16 degrees retarded, the engine ought to start. Won't have much power though and will bang nicely in the exhaust pipe on the over-run.

[TheLordJohn]

Sorry meant Before I think - the marker (very worn!) was on the passenger side of central, if that makes sense...
So as the crank pulley comes round, the recess in the pulley passes the first set of markings, past 'centre' then onto the next set of markings, reading around 8.
I have explained that terribly, i know...

I am right in thinking, that if i get 1 on power, and the rotor arm is pointing at 1, it'll take 2 full revolutions of the crank for the next one to line up, (3)?

Thanks for the help

Edited by TheLordJohn on Monday 27th June 22:08

[Satsuma]

One full turn to get to 3. two full turns would simply get you back to number 1

[colin_p]

Static timing should be...

1147cc = 17 btdc
1296cc = 6 btdc
1596cc = 10 btdc


Fully retard the using the vernier adjuster, then turn the dizzy body until the points just open, then clamp the dizzy and then use the vernier to obtain the timing above.

I'd also bung a new set of points and more importantly a new condensor on there as well.

Obvious question that should be asked first is, do you get a spark?

[TheLordJohn]

Thanks for the continued help
I must say I'm a bit embarrassed as me and my Dad used to always play with Minis and the like but having spent my whole working life on diesels, most of it has vanished out my head now!

[//j17]

TheLordJohn said:

How so?
(moving leads to check).

I think moving them all 2 posts should do it. Dizzy rotates at half crank speed, anti-clockwise and the firing order is 1-3-4-2. If you pick a random post to be A, then letter them anti-clockwise as B, C and D if you currently have:

A -> #1
B -> #3
C -> #4
D -> #2

Swap the leads so you have them

A -> #4
B -> #2
C -> #1
D -> #3

[Yertis]

... and if that doesn't work consider getting a new rotor arm from the Distributor Doctor.

[caziques]

Worthwhile checking the right head gasket has been fitted.

Up to engine number FH25000 is head gasket without tab at rear that says TOP.

From FH25001 is a recessed block with different head gasket, with tab and TOP.

[Sardonicus]

Hang on a second it was running but rough now it wont run but its 180 degrees out? I dont think so are you sure its on the firing stoke on No1 cyl and not No4? it may of been the timing was out originally a tad (rough running etc) and now the points have closed up for example causing a non run a distributor wont just go 180 out

[//j17]

Depends who/how many people have had a go at fixing it before the OP was asked to take a look...

[Little Pete]

You have started off at the right point by establishing where the rotor arm needs to be pointing to fire on number 1. As has been said the firing order is 1-3-4-2 and the distributor turns anti-clockwise. Turn the engine anti-clockwise from TDC to get your static timing mark, the drivers side of centre if you like, about 6 to 10 degrees should be fine. Have a look at the points and make sure they are starting to open, not close-this is a common mistake. With the ignition on turn the distributor body clockwise until the points spark and tighten the clamp. make sure there is a gap in the points and provided you have a spark you should be good to go. You will need a strobe light and an accurate method of setting the points gap to do any fine tuning though.

[Sardonicus]

//j17 said:

Depends who/how many people have had a go at fixing it before the OP was asked to take a look...

Yeh good point the customer is the worst culprit for not coming clean

[TheLordJohn]

I don't think it has ever ran since he had the head work done.
Problem is, as others have alluded to, I am not the first to take a look at it.
So we end up with all sorts of bits and bobs going on and you aren't starting from scratch.

Thanks for the very helpful replies, gents. Appreciated.

[Yertis]

Back to basics time isn't it. Take the ignition system to bits and rebuild to spec with known good components.

[Little Pete]

Yertis said:

Back to basics time isn't it. Take the ignition system to bits and rebuild to spec with known good components.

Agreed. Time to start from scratch

[FailHere]

Have you done a compression test on the cylinders? You may be wasting time with the ignition if the valve clearances are all wrong and not sealing, also is it fresh fuel and decent, correctly gapped, spark plugs?

[TheLordJohn]

Just to revisit, and finalise, this thread; I got it running tonight!
Did the 'move the dizzy leads two places round' trick and after a few coughs and splutters it ran well.
I was told I was the 10th person to look at it in a year.