Jag x308 or Merc w124
Discussion
I am in the market for new classic budget of £2000
I had my mind set on a w124 saloon ( decent coupe will be out of reach at £2000)
Walking down the street the other day I saw an immaculate x308 jag which was a thing of great beauty. A bit of searching around on the net and it seems they represent great value
Eg this one
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Jaguar-XJ8-3-2-saloon-Be...
So my head says the w124 will be the safe option but my heart says get the jag.
I guess neither will be the best on fuel , the German car will of course be reliable and efficient but the jaguar jlooks like every journey will be special .
So what would you do? Any owners past or present care to comment?
I had my mind set on a w124 saloon ( decent coupe will be out of reach at £2000)
Walking down the street the other day I saw an immaculate x308 jag which was a thing of great beauty. A bit of searching around on the net and it seems they represent great value
Eg this one
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Jaguar-XJ8-3-2-saloon-Be...
So my head says the w124 will be the safe option but my heart says get the jag.
I guess neither will be the best on fuel , the German car will of course be reliable and efficient but the jaguar jlooks like every journey will be special .
So what would you do? Any owners past or present care to comment?
Perhaps i might be considered biased since I own Jaguars and have done for over 30 years, so here I heartily recommend - the Mercedes. I have had both in the 90s as everyday cars, and the Jaguar, bought new, was just trouble from start to finish. My W124, on the other hand, was faultless. But examine both for rust, since they both rust despite the "hewn-from-stone" reputation of the Mercs in the day. The Jaguar is svelte, has a lovely smooth engine, but might break your wallet if not your heart. A 6-cylinder W124, on the other hand, will be more boring to drive but last forever.
They're both good cars. Have you also considered an X300? The V8 engine and transmission in the X308 is more fragile than the older six cylinder engine in the X300 (the X300 is a mildly re-engineered and facelifted XJ40, which are very durable cars). The six cylinder engine/transmission is virtually unburstable mechanically, though not quite as modern feeling as the V8.
As an aside, I have had my 1992 Jaguar Sovereign (XJ40 shape) for a huge length of time - and it was my late father's company car before that. The inevitable rust aside, it has been almost fault free in that time and has never let me down. In contrast, my brother had two Mercedes - a W140 in the late 1990s and a W220 for a couple of years around the year 2000. Both of them were troublesome; the W220 was a dog and put him off ever owning another Merc. You can get good and bad cars from any manufacturer.
Drive them and see which you prefer. I prefer the Jag - but you may prefer the Merc!
Check both for rust!
As an aside, I have had my 1992 Jaguar Sovereign (XJ40 shape) for a huge length of time - and it was my late father's company car before that. The inevitable rust aside, it has been almost fault free in that time and has never let me down. In contrast, my brother had two Mercedes - a W140 in the late 1990s and a W220 for a couple of years around the year 2000. Both of them were troublesome; the W220 was a dog and put him off ever owning another Merc. You can get good and bad cars from any manufacturer.
Drive them and see which you prefer. I prefer the Jag - but you may prefer the Merc!
Check both for rust!
I may be a little biased (see user name) but give me the Jaguar anyday. An X300 would be my choice, nothing beats a well sorted Jag straight six. They are more simple, and more reliable than the X308. If you do get an X308 look for 2001 and newer as 1998-2000 they used Nikasil engine lining, which, when paired with poor fuel led to engine failure. 2001 and newer will be fine. Also, at least here in the US, the Jag parts are cheaper than Mercedes parts. Car for car, the Merc I'm sure is solidly built, but when it goes wrong I'd venture to say will be more than the Jag. The XJ is much more elegant and I feel will be more enjoyable as an occasional car.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Jaguar is more reliable than a w124 at that price. I loved my W124 but one year it cost me 6 grand in repairs and the next year another 2 grand. I too bought one over the Jaguar I actually wanted because of the misguided belief that it would be reliable.
I've had both X300 and X308s, both run as long term keepers and both taken way past 100k with nothing more than the odd set of discs, tyres and maybe a suspension bush here and there. Both DIY maintained and serviced. Now on my second 3.2 V8 bought in mint condition with 31k on the clock and 10 main dealer service stamps in the book for just £3000. It's now on 58k miles.
The two cars are chalk and cheese to drive, the X300 is relatively unrefined, underpowered and crippled by a horribly crude automatic gearbox whereas a like for like engine size V8 is incredibly smooth and quiet and much faster and has a superb gearbox. It's more economical too - I'd get around 19MPG working the 6 cyl fairly hard but the V8 manages a much better 25 under the same conditions.
Trip computer after a gentle A1/M1/M11 amble back home from oop north yesterday is showing 29.3.
The JS X308 Buyers Guide
OVERVIEW
To avoid model confusion between the 8 XJ models the 1997-2002 V8 engined XJ8 can be referred to by its factory designation as the X308. The all new at the time V8 engine in the 308 has similar architecture to current cars and is available in a 3.2, 4.0 with VVT and a supercharged 4.0 and all versions are 5 speed auto only.
Engines were revised in the late 1999 model year from the original AJ26 version to AJ27. A car fitted with the revised engine version can be identified by a VIN number ending in five , not six digits. AJ26 engines suffered weak water pumps, secondary timing chain tensioner and throttle body failures and had a Nicasil coating applied directly on the cylinder bore walls rather than using conventional steel liners pressed into the block.
ENGINE NICASIL
Some Nicasil coatings errroded due to a combination of high Sulphur content fuel and repeated short trips. Sulphur maximum allowable limits in petrol were lowered considerably in Jan 2000 so any pre 2000 Nicasil coated engine that you know for sure is OK now should not be any concern. Several Nicasil engines were changed under warranty so you may find a pre 2000 car with a later steel lined engine fitted - identify this by the presence of a green tag on the head buried at the back of the RH bank and the engine change should also be recorded in the history. Symptoms of erosion and loss of compression are fast cranking, poor cold starting, a lumpy idle and heavy oil deposits in the breather system and air intake. Crankcase pressure will be high too – a quick check for this is to undo and slightly lift the oil filler cap at hot idle. There should be little or no internal pressure or fumes escaping. Jaguar dealers can perform a blow by check to determine engine condition. A good condition engine will show less than 20l/m anything over 30 l/m is shagged.
ENGINE COOLING
Impellors on AJ26 water pumps can disintegrate giving a loss of efficiency leading to overheating and potential head gasket failure. An early pump can be changed to the later version with a metal, not plastic impellor. The temperature gauge is software driven and is not always an accurate refection of actual coolant temperature.
For an indication of water pump efficiency, remove the coolant header tank cap when the engine is absolutely stone cold, start up and gently increase engine speed. If the water pump is healthy you should see a strong stream of coolant into the tank from the thin black pipe that runs from the top left of the radiator to the header tank.
You may be able to identify the later type of pump by the presence of a black plastic, not metal gasket, but the only certain way is to remove the pump and have a look. Spring type coolant hose clips can loose tension and let pipes blow off and some plastic parts on the hoses, unions and thermostat housing are very delicate. Check all over the engine compartment for evidence of coolant leaks, particularly around the thermostat/filler cap tower and coolant (valley) pipes underneath the inlet manifold as well as around the expansion tank hidden under the front of the nearside wing. Leave the engine idling to make sure the cooling fans kick in. Sniff around too as hot coolant has a distinctive smell. Auxiliary heater pump failures cause loss of heat output in the cabin at low engine RPM. Two types of coolant available for the XJ8 - don’t mix the later orange long life one with the earlier green one.
ENGINE THROTTLE BODIES
AJ26 throttle bodies all ought to have been changed to the later design under a factory safety recall. Some of the early bodies suffered from failing actuating motors causing to the engine to cut out completely on a high speed overrun. The later design should have been factory fitted to all cars from VIN 043775 onwards.
SECONDARY TIMING CHAIN TENSIONERS AND CHAINS
The only post AJ26 revision engine issue that remains is the secondary timing chain tensioners. These were replaced by a mk 2 version in Oct 1998 from engine no 98102106XX but the mk 2 type still had a plastic body which can crack or break up leading to slipped or broken chains. Mk 1 tensioners are actuated by engine oil pressure and failure can often be identified by a sharp rattling noise similar to a bicycle chain dragging on the chain guard on a cold start. The mk2 type is permanently tensioned by an integral spring instead which means it’ll usually fail silently.
A permanent solution is to retro-fit the later mk3 version tensioner made with a metal, not plastic body from the later 4.2 incarnation of the V8 engine. Jaguar issued a TSB in 2005 advising the fitment of these to the X308. Only way to be sure of which tensioners are fitted to an 308 is to either have a receipt with tensioner part numbers C2A1511 and C2A1512 which are the metal bodied type and the required 4 shorter bolts to fit them on it relating to that particular car or remove the RH cam cover - the LH is a PITA to get off - and have a look. A reddish/orange (mk1) or cream (mk2) plastic tensioner body is bad news, a grey aluminum metal one (mk3) is good.
The cam phasing on the V8 places uneven loading on the timing chains and they can stretch at high mileages or on neglected cars. If this is identified then a full chain and tensioner replacement is required costing up to £1000. If the chains and sprockets and guides are servicable then it’s a sensible move to fit the mk3 secondary tensioners which is a fairly easy DIY job. Tensioners cost around £75 a set plus a couple of quid for new bolts. Camshaft setting tools can be hired from the Jaguar Enthusiasts’ Club. Secondary tensioners can also be changed without any setting tools by tie wrapping the secondary chain to the exhaust cam sprocket and jamming the chain on the inlet cam sprocket with a wedge of wood to preserve the timing and removing the exhaust cam alltogether. Taking the cam out gives just enough room to ease the secondary tensioner away from position and fit a replacement. Chains slipping one tooth – usually on a cold start - will give a very rough running engine, more than one tooth slipped means exhaust valves will contact pistons.
A good general rule of thumb for engine condition is quiet running with just faint injector tick audible and internal cleanliness. Bright shiny metal inside the oil filler cap and dipstick along with clean oil and no evidence of leaks is a good sign, as is clear coolant that does not smell or taste bitter or acrid.
GEARBOX/ DRIVELINE
X308 gearboxes were marketed as “sealed for life” meaning no oil changes are called for in the schedule to reduce servicing costs. It's a ZF unit in the n/a cars and a Mercedes one in the supercharged cars. Any hesitation or engagement of Drive with a jerk as the engine speed rises means a potential gearbox failure looming and any gearbox stuck in 4th or 5th or only driving in reverse is beyond saving. A very faint gear whine may be heard in intermediate gears but any gearbox issues or concerns are potentially fatal. An oil and filter change might be all that’s needed to cure a gearbox malfunction like occasional reluctant or rough changes but that’s never guaranteed. Gear changes should be seamless and quiet and you should have instant response using the throttle, Sport switch and J gate selector.
Ideally the gearbox oil and filter should be changed at 50k then at 25k intervals; it's not a simple drain and refill on the ZF box as the final fill has to be done quickly with the engine running and within a narrow temperature range. There is no conventional dipstick for checking oil level.The ZF 5 speed box on the n/a cars requires Esso/Mobil longlife LT 71141 fluid also known as Lifeguard Fluid 5 and not conventional Dexron 3. The Mercedes gearbox in the supercharged version is also sealed for life but the same change requirement apply although you can use standard Dexron 3 in this box and once you have fitted a temporary dipstick it’s a much less complex job to do. Some transmission specialists offer a flush and change service done via the rather fragile oil cooler pipes in the radiator which also gets most of the oil otherwise retained in the torque converter out.
The same sealed for life marketing applies to the rear axle. Oil ought be changed but there’s no drain plug so old oil has to be vacuum extracted out of the filler plug. Refill with a API GL5 75 or 85/90 oil. Whiny diffs - a high mileage Jaguar speciality feature - can be quieted down considerably with EP140 or even EP250 oil.
BODY, PAINT AND CORROSION
Substantially better than earlier Jaguars. But look for corrosion round the rear wheel arches, round the front and rear screens especially underneath the screen rubbers in the bottom corners, bottom of the front wings, sill closing panels, jacking points and most importantly on the inner wing behind the front shocks on both sides. There's a reinforcing plate where the engine sub frame V mount is bolted to the body rail and some cars have corroded badly here. Corrosion around the same area may also be visible in the engine compartment on the top of the body rail around the heads of the two 10mm bolts that retain the top of the V mounts. Corrosion here is an MOT fail and a big welding job if the subframe has to be dropped. Another area to check is the joint between the rear of the front inner wings and the bulkhead. Body and paintwork is otherwise pretty good however some darker coloured cars suffer from peeling lacquer. Darker cars often appear to have slight but consistent orange peel in the lacquer all over the body too but you can use this to spot inconsistencies and start thinking about accident damage repairs. Bumper corners are susceptible to damage and bumper mounting brackets can corrode. Lacquer on the XJ8 is soft and easy to scratch with careless washing Providing you can’t actually feel scratches with a thumbnail and the paint colour underneath is OK it’s possible to restore the bodywork to a glossy finish with a mornings detailing if that's your thing. Stripe down body flanks if car has one is hand painted and not always completely straight.
INTERIOR
Very cozy given the size of the car. Always leather with different levels of trim and seating style. Wood trim clips on and is easy to change to different design. Driver’s seat back and steering wheels tend to suffer from wear. Head linings can sag. LWB version has extra room in the back. Check everything and repeatedly cycle the whole climate and a/c system through all vent operations and temperature range and run the interior fans at high speed while doing so and listen for vibration. Foam can get dislodged from the flaps and jam in the fans.
SUSPENSION, TYRES AND BRAKES
X308s are heavy and can be hard on suspension and brakes. Listen and feel very carefully for any clonking or knocking over bumps and make sure the car comes to a straight judder-free stop under both light and hard braking. Stop the car on the handbrake to make sure it works. A sharp rattle heard and felt through the steering over bumps combined with a little free play in the steering wheel may be a worn crush joint on the lower steering column. A clattery rattle from the rear is likely to be failed shock bushes. A soft clonk from the front might just be anti roll bar bushes. X308s with weak rear A frame bushes or worn rear hub pivots will tend to self steer and wander about under hard acceleration.
Look and feel round the tyres for uneven wear patterns; any suspension wear or bush failure allowing incorrect geometry will cause tyres to feather badly and excessive wear in the inside edges of the fronts is sometimes a symptom of excess negative camber from wishbone bush or ball joint failure rather than excess toe out. There is a subtle bifference in the two wear patterns with excess toe out usually causing a even slope across the tyre and excess camber more likley to show a sudden step up in wear on the inside 25%. Slight and even feathering inside and out is normal on the front tyres.
308s are very sensitive to wheel and tyre imbalances or damage, typically you'll feel a steering wobble between 50-70MPH and possibly vibration through the seat from anything over 45MPH if there are any tyre problems or buckled wheels. A Hunter Roadforce wheel balance may help diagnosis. Incorrect tyre pressures and knackered or faulty tyres will severely influence handling and ride. Most X308s exhibit a faint exhaust harmonic around 50 and another one at 65MPH. You might possibly experience a hint of driveline vibration through the body too. Don't expect too much in the way of the legendary Jaguar ride quality either - it's acceptable on touring (black shocks) suspension and 16" wheels but sport suspension cars (green shocks) have higher damping rates and have a thicker front anti roll bar and one fitted on the rear too which when combined with larger diameter wheels and lower profile tyres gives a hard crashy ride on poor roads. CATS suspension may be fitted as an option to any X308. CATS has electronically controlled valves in the shocks to vary the damping rates depending on driving style. Identify CATS by the presence of a plastic cover over the top of the front shock absorber with a lead going into it.
ELECTRICIAL/ OBD2 DIAGNOSTICS
Electrical systems are generally pretty robust. As with any old car you might have the odd problem so check absolutely everything works. X308 is OBD2 compliant and a £20 code reader plugged into the socket in the driver’s footwell will help diagnosis a lot. Electric aerials are easy to damage but easy to replace, there are occasional O2 sensor, airflow meter and brake light switch failures. Non working key fobs usually need nothing more than new batteries, a clean and easy DIY reprogramme. 308's need a strong battery to avoid random error messages appearing on start up. If you get one – usually TRAC FAIL – the battery is on its way out or needs several days on a trickle charge to bring it back up to full capacity.
BUYING AND LIVING WITH AN XJ
Generally the 1997-2002 XJ8 is a strong car and capable of big mileages if maintained well and not abused or neglected. It's mostly easy enough car for a competent DIYer to work on and parts are pretty reasonable and in good supply from several independents and the Jaguar Classic Parts scheme. The few specialist tools required can be hired from the JEC.
Expect around 26/8 MPG on the motorway or touring, between 20 and 24 around town and mid teens or less if you're nailing it in a n/a car, the supercharged versions typically use more. Quality tyres start around £100 a corner in 16" diameter size. Early cars fall into a cheaper VED bracket then later ones. Servicing schedule is annual or 10000 miles. 70k service is the expensive one on n/a cars
3.2 does 0-60 in 8.1s and the 4.0 is a second quicker.
Shortening intervals between servicing and using a genuine fully synthetic oil is worthwhile IMO. It’ll help protect the timing chains and give a small improvement in fuel economy. Keeping oil topped up to the maximum mark - both my V8's have used a little - is a plan too as it reduces stress on the oil and both reduces the possibility of oil starvation on rapid cornering and seems somehow to make a subtle improvement in refinement. A through rust proofing and full fluid change is a benefit too if you want to preserve the car. Waxoil has the effect of lubricating suspension components and a good soaking - not anywhere near the brakes 'tho please - will subtly improve the ride quality.
Keeping the inside of the throttle body and the elements of the airflow meter spotlessly clean as well as the 2.5mm calibrated bleed hole in the breather system will stabilise and improve throttle response and consistentency especially at small openings. Again it's a subtle but worthwhile improvement. Any leaks in the air intake or breather system need fixing.
Providing the suspension components are all OK and the tyres are reasonable a occasional Hunter full 4 wheel laser alignment geometry check and reset will improve feel of the car dramatically. Small changes in tyre pressure have a unusually big influence on how the car drives too.
One last thing. A software error means its a very bad thing to start an X308 from cold and then switch off again straightaway or before allowing the temp gauge to move off the cold section of the scale. There's a chance are it’ll flood when you next start and wash all the oil of the bores and it’s a right PITA to get it running again.
The two cars are chalk and cheese to drive, the X300 is relatively unrefined, underpowered and crippled by a horribly crude automatic gearbox whereas a like for like engine size V8 is incredibly smooth and quiet and much faster and has a superb gearbox. It's more economical too - I'd get around 19MPG working the 6 cyl fairly hard but the V8 manages a much better 25 under the same conditions.
Trip computer after a gentle A1/M1/M11 amble back home from oop north yesterday is showing 29.3.
The JS X308 Buyers Guide
OVERVIEW
To avoid model confusion between the 8 XJ models the 1997-2002 V8 engined XJ8 can be referred to by its factory designation as the X308. The all new at the time V8 engine in the 308 has similar architecture to current cars and is available in a 3.2, 4.0 with VVT and a supercharged 4.0 and all versions are 5 speed auto only.
Engines were revised in the late 1999 model year from the original AJ26 version to AJ27. A car fitted with the revised engine version can be identified by a VIN number ending in five , not six digits. AJ26 engines suffered weak water pumps, secondary timing chain tensioner and throttle body failures and had a Nicasil coating applied directly on the cylinder bore walls rather than using conventional steel liners pressed into the block.
ENGINE NICASIL
Some Nicasil coatings errroded due to a combination of high Sulphur content fuel and repeated short trips. Sulphur maximum allowable limits in petrol were lowered considerably in Jan 2000 so any pre 2000 Nicasil coated engine that you know for sure is OK now should not be any concern. Several Nicasil engines were changed under warranty so you may find a pre 2000 car with a later steel lined engine fitted - identify this by the presence of a green tag on the head buried at the back of the RH bank and the engine change should also be recorded in the history. Symptoms of erosion and loss of compression are fast cranking, poor cold starting, a lumpy idle and heavy oil deposits in the breather system and air intake. Crankcase pressure will be high too – a quick check for this is to undo and slightly lift the oil filler cap at hot idle. There should be little or no internal pressure or fumes escaping. Jaguar dealers can perform a blow by check to determine engine condition. A good condition engine will show less than 20l/m anything over 30 l/m is shagged.
ENGINE COOLING
Impellors on AJ26 water pumps can disintegrate giving a loss of efficiency leading to overheating and potential head gasket failure. An early pump can be changed to the later version with a metal, not plastic impellor. The temperature gauge is software driven and is not always an accurate refection of actual coolant temperature.
For an indication of water pump efficiency, remove the coolant header tank cap when the engine is absolutely stone cold, start up and gently increase engine speed. If the water pump is healthy you should see a strong stream of coolant into the tank from the thin black pipe that runs from the top left of the radiator to the header tank.
You may be able to identify the later type of pump by the presence of a black plastic, not metal gasket, but the only certain way is to remove the pump and have a look. Spring type coolant hose clips can loose tension and let pipes blow off and some plastic parts on the hoses, unions and thermostat housing are very delicate. Check all over the engine compartment for evidence of coolant leaks, particularly around the thermostat/filler cap tower and coolant (valley) pipes underneath the inlet manifold as well as around the expansion tank hidden under the front of the nearside wing. Leave the engine idling to make sure the cooling fans kick in. Sniff around too as hot coolant has a distinctive smell. Auxiliary heater pump failures cause loss of heat output in the cabin at low engine RPM. Two types of coolant available for the XJ8 - don’t mix the later orange long life one with the earlier green one.
ENGINE THROTTLE BODIES
AJ26 throttle bodies all ought to have been changed to the later design under a factory safety recall. Some of the early bodies suffered from failing actuating motors causing to the engine to cut out completely on a high speed overrun. The later design should have been factory fitted to all cars from VIN 043775 onwards.
SECONDARY TIMING CHAIN TENSIONERS AND CHAINS
The only post AJ26 revision engine issue that remains is the secondary timing chain tensioners. These were replaced by a mk 2 version in Oct 1998 from engine no 98102106XX but the mk 2 type still had a plastic body which can crack or break up leading to slipped or broken chains. Mk 1 tensioners are actuated by engine oil pressure and failure can often be identified by a sharp rattling noise similar to a bicycle chain dragging on the chain guard on a cold start. The mk2 type is permanently tensioned by an integral spring instead which means it’ll usually fail silently.
A permanent solution is to retro-fit the later mk3 version tensioner made with a metal, not plastic body from the later 4.2 incarnation of the V8 engine. Jaguar issued a TSB in 2005 advising the fitment of these to the X308. Only way to be sure of which tensioners are fitted to an 308 is to either have a receipt with tensioner part numbers C2A1511 and C2A1512 which are the metal bodied type and the required 4 shorter bolts to fit them on it relating to that particular car or remove the RH cam cover - the LH is a PITA to get off - and have a look. A reddish/orange (mk1) or cream (mk2) plastic tensioner body is bad news, a grey aluminum metal one (mk3) is good.
The cam phasing on the V8 places uneven loading on the timing chains and they can stretch at high mileages or on neglected cars. If this is identified then a full chain and tensioner replacement is required costing up to £1000. If the chains and sprockets and guides are servicable then it’s a sensible move to fit the mk3 secondary tensioners which is a fairly easy DIY job. Tensioners cost around £75 a set plus a couple of quid for new bolts. Camshaft setting tools can be hired from the Jaguar Enthusiasts’ Club. Secondary tensioners can also be changed without any setting tools by tie wrapping the secondary chain to the exhaust cam sprocket and jamming the chain on the inlet cam sprocket with a wedge of wood to preserve the timing and removing the exhaust cam alltogether. Taking the cam out gives just enough room to ease the secondary tensioner away from position and fit a replacement. Chains slipping one tooth – usually on a cold start - will give a very rough running engine, more than one tooth slipped means exhaust valves will contact pistons.
A good general rule of thumb for engine condition is quiet running with just faint injector tick audible and internal cleanliness. Bright shiny metal inside the oil filler cap and dipstick along with clean oil and no evidence of leaks is a good sign, as is clear coolant that does not smell or taste bitter or acrid.
GEARBOX/ DRIVELINE
X308 gearboxes were marketed as “sealed for life” meaning no oil changes are called for in the schedule to reduce servicing costs. It's a ZF unit in the n/a cars and a Mercedes one in the supercharged cars. Any hesitation or engagement of Drive with a jerk as the engine speed rises means a potential gearbox failure looming and any gearbox stuck in 4th or 5th or only driving in reverse is beyond saving. A very faint gear whine may be heard in intermediate gears but any gearbox issues or concerns are potentially fatal. An oil and filter change might be all that’s needed to cure a gearbox malfunction like occasional reluctant or rough changes but that’s never guaranteed. Gear changes should be seamless and quiet and you should have instant response using the throttle, Sport switch and J gate selector.
Ideally the gearbox oil and filter should be changed at 50k then at 25k intervals; it's not a simple drain and refill on the ZF box as the final fill has to be done quickly with the engine running and within a narrow temperature range. There is no conventional dipstick for checking oil level.The ZF 5 speed box on the n/a cars requires Esso/Mobil longlife LT 71141 fluid also known as Lifeguard Fluid 5 and not conventional Dexron 3. The Mercedes gearbox in the supercharged version is also sealed for life but the same change requirement apply although you can use standard Dexron 3 in this box and once you have fitted a temporary dipstick it’s a much less complex job to do. Some transmission specialists offer a flush and change service done via the rather fragile oil cooler pipes in the radiator which also gets most of the oil otherwise retained in the torque converter out.
The same sealed for life marketing applies to the rear axle. Oil ought be changed but there’s no drain plug so old oil has to be vacuum extracted out of the filler plug. Refill with a API GL5 75 or 85/90 oil. Whiny diffs - a high mileage Jaguar speciality feature - can be quieted down considerably with EP140 or even EP250 oil.
BODY, PAINT AND CORROSION
Substantially better than earlier Jaguars. But look for corrosion round the rear wheel arches, round the front and rear screens especially underneath the screen rubbers in the bottom corners, bottom of the front wings, sill closing panels, jacking points and most importantly on the inner wing behind the front shocks on both sides. There's a reinforcing plate where the engine sub frame V mount is bolted to the body rail and some cars have corroded badly here. Corrosion around the same area may also be visible in the engine compartment on the top of the body rail around the heads of the two 10mm bolts that retain the top of the V mounts. Corrosion here is an MOT fail and a big welding job if the subframe has to be dropped. Another area to check is the joint between the rear of the front inner wings and the bulkhead. Body and paintwork is otherwise pretty good however some darker coloured cars suffer from peeling lacquer. Darker cars often appear to have slight but consistent orange peel in the lacquer all over the body too but you can use this to spot inconsistencies and start thinking about accident damage repairs. Bumper corners are susceptible to damage and bumper mounting brackets can corrode. Lacquer on the XJ8 is soft and easy to scratch with careless washing Providing you can’t actually feel scratches with a thumbnail and the paint colour underneath is OK it’s possible to restore the bodywork to a glossy finish with a mornings detailing if that's your thing. Stripe down body flanks if car has one is hand painted and not always completely straight.
INTERIOR
Very cozy given the size of the car. Always leather with different levels of trim and seating style. Wood trim clips on and is easy to change to different design. Driver’s seat back and steering wheels tend to suffer from wear. Head linings can sag. LWB version has extra room in the back. Check everything and repeatedly cycle the whole climate and a/c system through all vent operations and temperature range and run the interior fans at high speed while doing so and listen for vibration. Foam can get dislodged from the flaps and jam in the fans.
SUSPENSION, TYRES AND BRAKES
X308s are heavy and can be hard on suspension and brakes. Listen and feel very carefully for any clonking or knocking over bumps and make sure the car comes to a straight judder-free stop under both light and hard braking. Stop the car on the handbrake to make sure it works. A sharp rattle heard and felt through the steering over bumps combined with a little free play in the steering wheel may be a worn crush joint on the lower steering column. A clattery rattle from the rear is likely to be failed shock bushes. A soft clonk from the front might just be anti roll bar bushes. X308s with weak rear A frame bushes or worn rear hub pivots will tend to self steer and wander about under hard acceleration.
Look and feel round the tyres for uneven wear patterns; any suspension wear or bush failure allowing incorrect geometry will cause tyres to feather badly and excessive wear in the inside edges of the fronts is sometimes a symptom of excess negative camber from wishbone bush or ball joint failure rather than excess toe out. There is a subtle bifference in the two wear patterns with excess toe out usually causing a even slope across the tyre and excess camber more likley to show a sudden step up in wear on the inside 25%. Slight and even feathering inside and out is normal on the front tyres.
308s are very sensitive to wheel and tyre imbalances or damage, typically you'll feel a steering wobble between 50-70MPH and possibly vibration through the seat from anything over 45MPH if there are any tyre problems or buckled wheels. A Hunter Roadforce wheel balance may help diagnosis. Incorrect tyre pressures and knackered or faulty tyres will severely influence handling and ride. Most X308s exhibit a faint exhaust harmonic around 50 and another one at 65MPH. You might possibly experience a hint of driveline vibration through the body too. Don't expect too much in the way of the legendary Jaguar ride quality either - it's acceptable on touring (black shocks) suspension and 16" wheels but sport suspension cars (green shocks) have higher damping rates and have a thicker front anti roll bar and one fitted on the rear too which when combined with larger diameter wheels and lower profile tyres gives a hard crashy ride on poor roads. CATS suspension may be fitted as an option to any X308. CATS has electronically controlled valves in the shocks to vary the damping rates depending on driving style. Identify CATS by the presence of a plastic cover over the top of the front shock absorber with a lead going into it.
ELECTRICIAL/ OBD2 DIAGNOSTICS
Electrical systems are generally pretty robust. As with any old car you might have the odd problem so check absolutely everything works. X308 is OBD2 compliant and a £20 code reader plugged into the socket in the driver’s footwell will help diagnosis a lot. Electric aerials are easy to damage but easy to replace, there are occasional O2 sensor, airflow meter and brake light switch failures. Non working key fobs usually need nothing more than new batteries, a clean and easy DIY reprogramme. 308's need a strong battery to avoid random error messages appearing on start up. If you get one – usually TRAC FAIL – the battery is on its way out or needs several days on a trickle charge to bring it back up to full capacity.
BUYING AND LIVING WITH AN XJ
Generally the 1997-2002 XJ8 is a strong car and capable of big mileages if maintained well and not abused or neglected. It's mostly easy enough car for a competent DIYer to work on and parts are pretty reasonable and in good supply from several independents and the Jaguar Classic Parts scheme. The few specialist tools required can be hired from the JEC.
Expect around 26/8 MPG on the motorway or touring, between 20 and 24 around town and mid teens or less if you're nailing it in a n/a car, the supercharged versions typically use more. Quality tyres start around £100 a corner in 16" diameter size. Early cars fall into a cheaper VED bracket then later ones. Servicing schedule is annual or 10000 miles. 70k service is the expensive one on n/a cars
3.2 does 0-60 in 8.1s and the 4.0 is a second quicker.
Shortening intervals between servicing and using a genuine fully synthetic oil is worthwhile IMO. It’ll help protect the timing chains and give a small improvement in fuel economy. Keeping oil topped up to the maximum mark - both my V8's have used a little - is a plan too as it reduces stress on the oil and both reduces the possibility of oil starvation on rapid cornering and seems somehow to make a subtle improvement in refinement. A through rust proofing and full fluid change is a benefit too if you want to preserve the car. Waxoil has the effect of lubricating suspension components and a good soaking - not anywhere near the brakes 'tho please - will subtly improve the ride quality.
Keeping the inside of the throttle body and the elements of the airflow meter spotlessly clean as well as the 2.5mm calibrated bleed hole in the breather system will stabilise and improve throttle response and consistentency especially at small openings. Again it's a subtle but worthwhile improvement. Any leaks in the air intake or breather system need fixing.
Providing the suspension components are all OK and the tyres are reasonable a occasional Hunter full 4 wheel laser alignment geometry check and reset will improve feel of the car dramatically. Small changes in tyre pressure have a unusually big influence on how the car drives too.
One last thing. A software error means its a very bad thing to start an X308 from cold and then switch off again straightaway or before allowing the temp gauge to move off the cold section of the scale. There's a chance are it’ll flood when you next start and wash all the oil of the bores and it’s a right PITA to get it running again.
I'm not a W124 fan I'm afraid, They were okay but having seen them in bits, they're not as well constructed as you might think - Toyota build cars better. A 24v 525i is a vastly superior vehicle in every respect although an E280 isn't a bad tram.
I'd rather have an X300 tbh. Find a nice rot free one* with careful owners and a good history and what a car. The 24 valve six is as good as anything Merc have ever made. The only 124 I'd consider would be a pre facelift 230CE or 300CE - at least they're pretty - the saloon certain;y isn't.
Look also at earlier E38 7 Series - there have been a couple of really nice mid nineties 730i and 740i cars about for bugger all mosey (well, 1500 quid or so).
I'd rather have an X300 tbh. Find a nice rot free one* with careful owners and a good history and what a car. The 24 valve six is as good as anything Merc have ever made. The only 124 I'd consider would be a pre facelift 230CE or 300CE - at least they're pretty - the saloon certain;y isn't.
Look also at earlier E38 7 Series - there have been a couple of really nice mid nineties 730i and 740i cars about for bugger all mosey (well, 1500 quid or so).
bristolracer said:
I am in the market for new classic budget of £2000
I had my mind set on a w124 saloon ( decent coupe will be out of reach at £2000)
Walking down the street the other day I saw an immaculate x308 jag which was a thing of great beauty. A bit of searching around on the net and it seems they represent great value
For £2K you will get a better X308 than W124, but you might get a better BMW E39 than either of the other two. Come over to the Barge £1-5K thread and be seduced, this is the sort of thing we talk about all day.I had my mind set on a w124 saloon ( decent coupe will be out of reach at £2000)
Walking down the street the other day I saw an immaculate x308 jag which was a thing of great beauty. A bit of searching around on the net and it seems they represent great value
londonbabe said:
I wouldn't be surprised if the Jaguar is more reliable than a w124 at that price. I loved my W124 but one year it cost me 6 grand in repairs and the next year another 2 grand. I too bought one over the Jaguar I actually wanted because of the misguided belief that it would be reliable.
Had a 300ce for nearly a year now, only spent a few hundred on it, what did you buy yours for? Mostly the well known relay/electrical and window motors issues/rocker gasket P
Having had both, I go w124 from the point of view that diy is easier,and body panels are a hell of a lot cheaper. The xj8 is a lot better drive the bottom of the wings will need careful checking at this budget and there are lots and lots of bushes, but I loved owning both in fact i'm on my 3rd w124
A common misconception is that W124 Mercs are 'tough', 'hewn from granite' etc. They're not. They're not bad cars, but a Carina E or Accord of similar vintage is a lot better despite having less of a quality feel. X300 Jaguars were based on the bones of the XJ40. It'll go wrong and cost money just like a Merc, but at least you're not kidding yourself. Plus they're a magnificent way to travel.
yep they both like to rot, a lot of w124s are having the front mounts on the rear subframe coming away from the body, the jags are a few years newer and you do get a lot more car for the cash, if you really want a w124 now's the time because prices are on the up for nice ones, while there are a lot of very nice jags about at what I think are stupidly cheap prices, you pays your money takes your choice as they say
Edited by ian316 on Thursday 15th September 17:40
iSore said:
A common misconception is that W124 Mercs are 'tough', 'hewn from granite' etc. They're not. They're not bad cars, but a Carina E or Accord of similar vintage is a lot better despite having less of a quality feel. X300 Jaguars were based on the bones of the XJ40. It'll go wrong and cost money just like a Merc, but at least you're not kidding yourself. Plus they're a magnificent way to travel.
Sure the Land of the Rising sun 'makes" more reliable cars, but usually they lack presence, original design, lack of innovation and don't say much about you......if reliability is your thing go for a Honda/ToyotaP
Parisien said:
Had a 300ce for nearly a year now, only spent a few hundred on it, what did you buy yours for? Mostly the well known relay/electrical and window motors issues/rocker gasket
P
£800. It had had a fortune spent on it though. It needed more.P
Suspension arms, (24v did not have replaceable ball-joints), anti-roll bar bushes, leaky timing chain cover and cam cover, cooling system problems, snapped driveshaft, dodgy handbrake, dizzy, electrical issues. Lovely car when it worked though.
£800, is I suppose at the bottom of the range, usually indicative of "needing" work, work which was required over time being put off or not done at all, so the work accumulates til it needs doing and thats were you come in!
Wear and tear, ageing and neglect......the ugly triumvirate of reasons behind all cars demises.
Keep a warchest handy and be good with the spanners or friendly with a decent mechanic
P
Wear and tear, ageing and neglect......the ugly triumvirate of reasons behind all cars demises.
Keep a warchest handy and be good with the spanners or friendly with a decent mechanic
P
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