How safe are classic cars
Discussion
I would be happy with a classic car for use everyday, to include taking my grandchildren about. I was thinking along the lines of a W124 or W201 Merc. I would enjoy doing routine tasks, such as oil changes. However my wife is concerned about safety of the kids.
Part of the problem is that she saw a video of a drunken woman crashing her Qashqai at speed. A kid in a child seat suffered hardly any injuries. My wife asked what would have happened if it had been a classic Merc.
I had to admit that I had no idea.
Can anyone help with any meaningful ideas as to safety?
Part of the problem is that she saw a video of a drunken woman crashing her Qashqai at speed. A kid in a child seat suffered hardly any injuries. My wife asked what would have happened if it had been a classic Merc.
I had to admit that I had no idea.
Can anyone help with any meaningful ideas as to safety?
W124s are built like tanks and if you get one that has airbags all the better - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFk2ve0s0w0 even the rear end shut only collapses the boot, as designed to.
Ps. I had one, it was hit at speed by a stolen Rover 216 that had left the road and crashed into a car park hitting my car on the left rear passenger side, Rover was a wreck.
Damage to the Mercedes
It was written off only due to damage outweighing cost of car, but I was still drive-able
Ps. I had one, it was hit at speed by a stolen Rover 216 that had left the road and crashed into a car park hitting my car on the left rear passenger side, Rover was a wreck.
Damage to the Mercedes
It was written off only due to damage outweighing cost of car, but I was still drive-able
Edited by FourWheelDrift on Friday 28th April 12:29
Just asked a similar question about airbags on another thread
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
S10GTA said:
I was thinking about the above comments on my way to work this morning, especially the comment about why wouldn't a 90s car make a suitable daily, as it has all modern crash features such as airbags.
It got me wondering about the life span of airbags, and if they ever need replacing? I see on some cars it states 10 years, but I've never heard of anyone replacing them. Would you be confident of a 25 year old airbag firing? I wonder about my 13 year old one sometimes...
It got me wondering about the life span of airbags, and if they ever need replacing? I see on some cars it states 10 years, but I've never heard of anyone replacing them. Would you be confident of a 25 year old airbag firing? I wonder about my 13 year old one sometimes...
Edited by S10GTA on Friday 28th April 12:28
Derek Smith said:
Part of the problem is that she saw a video of a drunken woman crashing her Qashqai at speed. A kid in a child seat suffered hardly any injuries. My wife asked what would have happened if it had been a classic Merc.
I had to admit that I had no idea.
Just point out to her that you can put child seats in older cars, too.I had to admit that I had no idea.
W124? Game on! Fantastic cars especially in estate form.
As for safety, does this answer your question?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFk2ve0s0w0
As for safety, does this answer your question?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFk2ve0s0w0
Edited by Mound Dawg on Friday 28th April 12:44
A lot of it is about head impacts. On older cars, even those that are made of wrought iron which don't deform so much, they still can't change physics - you have forces acting on the car that don't linearly act upon the occupants.
Side impacts for example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzOCzESlLlY
Even if the car doesn't deform a huge amount, it is still going to accelerate after the impact (sideways) and your body's inertia, won't,
Side impacts for example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzOCzESlLlY
Even if the car doesn't deform a huge amount, it is still going to accelerate after the impact (sideways) and your body's inertia, won't,
As above, the understanding of crash physics has improved a lot - modern cars have very cleverly designed crumpled zones so energy is absorbed by bending metal, instead of being transferred to the occupants. Old tank-like cars like Volvos and Mercs can withstand big impacts but they aren't actually as safe to crash in.
Having said that, I think it's a bit of a silly argument. Everything is a calculated risk and there is no such thing as a 'safe' car per se. If you plan on driving drunk and crashing into roundabouts then a Qashqai probably is a better choice for you than a vintage Merc, but the latter will have far better visibility and since it's you that's going to be driving, that isn't going to happen anyway.
Btw, even the efficacy of child seats is not an uncontroversial subject...
Having said that, I think it's a bit of a silly argument. Everything is a calculated risk and there is no such thing as a 'safe' car per se. If you plan on driving drunk and crashing into roundabouts then a Qashqai probably is a better choice for you than a vintage Merc, but the latter will have far better visibility and since it's you that's going to be driving, that isn't going to happen anyway.
Btw, even the efficacy of child seats is not an uncontroversial subject...
As said above, most manufacturers tell you to replace airbags after 10 years. I'm sure reaching 15 years will make no difference, but 20 years? 30? I wouldn't count on a 30 year old airbag deploying before my face hits metal.
Also cars have gotten a lot heavier and taller. A W201 Mercedes is about 10cm shorter than a modern Corsa and weighs about the same. Almost anything that hits you will have the weight and height advantage.
Premium European cars were always a step ahead of the competition in terms of crash safety, but since standardised testing such as Euro NCAP, things have changed considerably. Which of these would you rather be in?
1997 C-Class (almost certainly better than W201)
2017 C-Class
Also cars have gotten a lot heavier and taller. A W201 Mercedes is about 10cm shorter than a modern Corsa and weighs about the same. Almost anything that hits you will have the weight and height advantage.
Premium European cars were always a step ahead of the competition in terms of crash safety, but since standardised testing such as Euro NCAP, things have changed considerably. Which of these would you rather be in?
1997 C-Class (almost certainly better than W201)
2017 C-Class
The thing is, though, that standards were lower 20 years ago. Weight does not, of itself, mean the car is safer. American cars were heavier but were more dangerous than modern cars to be in in an accident. Also, they were much more dangerous to be hit by.
The tests have changed significantly as well.
The tests have changed significantly as well.
a said:
1997 C-Class (almost certainly better than W201)
2017 C-Class
That about sums it up, really. Cars of this era may fair relatively well in low speed impacts but hit anything at speed and the entire design ethos is wrong - they just don't bend at the right points. If you're genuinely concerned by crash safety, stick to modern cars; personally I happily drive classics but I'm under no illusion as to what will happen if I crash. 2017 C-Class
When I first got my 57 Chevy the first modifications made were for safety:
Power disc brakes
Three point seat belts
I got the car two weeks after my son was born.
Since then it has had lots of steering (rack and pinion) and suspension upgrades to modern components (coil overs, anti roll bars front and back).
It doesn't have headrests so even though he was seven this week I still put him in a full car seat when he is riding in the Chevy.
Of course none of the changes will change the fact it's a heavy car with no crumple zones (apart from the steering column) but you can take small steps to reduce risk
Power disc brakes
Three point seat belts
I got the car two weeks after my son was born.
Since then it has had lots of steering (rack and pinion) and suspension upgrades to modern components (coil overs, anti roll bars front and back).
It doesn't have headrests so even though he was seven this week I still put him in a full car seat when he is riding in the Chevy.
Of course none of the changes will change the fact it's a heavy car with no crumple zones (apart from the steering column) but you can take small steps to reduce risk
57 Chevy said:
When I first got my 57 Chevy the first modifications made were for safety:
Power disc brakes
Three point seat belts
I got the car two weeks after my son was born.
Since then it has had lots of steering (rack and pinion) and suspension upgrades to modern components (coil overs, anti roll bars front and back).
It doesn't have headrests so even though he was seven this week I still put him in a full car seat when he is riding in the Chevy.
Of course none of the changes will change the fact it's a heavy car with no crumple zones (apart from the steering column) but you can take small steps to reduce risk
Does he sit in the rear?Power disc brakes
Three point seat belts
I got the car two weeks after my son was born.
Since then it has had lots of steering (rack and pinion) and suspension upgrades to modern components (coil overs, anti roll bars front and back).
It doesn't have headrests so even though he was seven this week I still put him in a full car seat when he is riding in the Chevy.
Of course none of the changes will change the fact it's a heavy car with no crumple zones (apart from the steering column) but you can take small steps to reduce risk
Derek Smith said:
Weight does not, of itself, mean the car is safer
Depends what you hit. *armchair physics - probably wrong* If you drive a 1 tonne car head-on into a 2 tonne car, each doing 50mph - you will suffer the same forces as a 75mph crash into a solid wall while it's only 25mph for them.Take a look at this mate https://youtu.be/HCecdOBCFjI
I was considering this question as my kids got to driving age; get them an old tank or a newish hatchback made out of recycled baked bean tins. They both ended up in newish small hatchbacks..
I was considering this question as my kids got to driving age; get them an old tank or a newish hatchback made out of recycled baked bean tins. They both ended up in newish small hatchbacks..
57 Chevy said:
S10GTA said:
Does he sit in the rear?
He has sat in the front and the back. Three point belts in both. It came with no belts from the factory. https://www.gov.uk/seat-belts-law/if-your-vehicle-...
S10GTA said:
Ah. We've a frogeye with no belts, meaning my kid could travel in it, but only in rear seats, of which it has none.
https://www.gov.uk/seat-belts-law/if-your-vehicle-...
Yep I get that. The 57 Chevy comes in two main styles (and a few others like the convertible) a sedan (with b pillars) and a sport roof (pillarless). I deliberately wanted b pillars as my wife won't go in cars without three point belts and I wanted them for the boy too https://www.gov.uk/seat-belts-law/if-your-vehicle-...
Had mine fitted here http://www.quickfitsbs.com/
In fact if you look in the photos my car is in there.
I wouldn't get too excited about the Qashqai accident. I saw the footage and it was a bloody miracle they both walked away. In my wife's QQ I hate being in the passenger seat as I have to have the seat further forward than I want because of the child seat in the back and because of my height I feel my head is very close to the top of the A-pillar.
Having said that, modern cars are designed to bend in all the right places to protect the occupants. The fact that a modern can be undriveable after a relatively small shunt is probably a good thing safety wise (although of course it makes it much easier to write off a relatively modern 10 year old car).
If you're going to go older, pick something solid - Merc, BMW, SAAB, Volvo.
One final word - NCAP results can be a bit skewed, I believe many manufacturers design their cars to do well in these tests which may not be indicative of real world performance. Folksam have a chart of cars and their safety based on results collated from real world accidents which makes interesting reading!
http://www.carsafetyresults.com/ - click Folksam, and latest report which is 2009.
Interestingly, my 2004 BMW e46 (designed in the mid 90s) and my 1991 SAAB 900 (designed in the late 60s and revised late 70s) both get "average"!. Says a lot about the importance the Swedes placed on safety. Talking of allowing cars to crumple to absorb impact forces, one of the changes SAAB made when they developed the 900 from the 99, was that the massively strong A pillar that had extended all the way down to the front wheelarch was curtailed just after the bulkhead, allowing the car to crumple more in the event of an accident.
Good chart here which shows decrease in serious medical impairment / death over the last 30 years:
https://www.folksam.se/media/hur-saker-ar-bilen-20...
Having said that, modern cars are designed to bend in all the right places to protect the occupants. The fact that a modern can be undriveable after a relatively small shunt is probably a good thing safety wise (although of course it makes it much easier to write off a relatively modern 10 year old car).
If you're going to go older, pick something solid - Merc, BMW, SAAB, Volvo.
One final word - NCAP results can be a bit skewed, I believe many manufacturers design their cars to do well in these tests which may not be indicative of real world performance. Folksam have a chart of cars and their safety based on results collated from real world accidents which makes interesting reading!
http://www.carsafetyresults.com/ - click Folksam, and latest report which is 2009.
Interestingly, my 2004 BMW e46 (designed in the mid 90s) and my 1991 SAAB 900 (designed in the late 60s and revised late 70s) both get "average"!. Says a lot about the importance the Swedes placed on safety. Talking of allowing cars to crumple to absorb impact forces, one of the changes SAAB made when they developed the 900 from the 99, was that the massively strong A pillar that had extended all the way down to the front wheelarch was curtailed just after the bulkhead, allowing the car to crumple more in the event of an accident.
Good chart here which shows decrease in serious medical impairment / death over the last 30 years:
https://www.folksam.se/media/hur-saker-ar-bilen-20...
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