XKSS on Channel 4

[john2443]

Has this been mentioned already? Maybe a repeat, but if you missed it it's on catch up now. Story of the new XKSSs.

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/jaguar-xkss-a-s...

[FlaminiaGT]

Almost a carbon copy of the E-type lightweight programme, same presenter droning on using far too many adjectives, same factory and team but different car. Just like the E-type programme, the car is built to perfection so sanitised version of the original, which to me misses the point. Good for a couple of episodes, before it becomes background fodder.

[Longnose]

I enjoyed it, especially the body bending when they put the engine in so the bonnet didn't fit anymore. And the improved door hinge because people spending £1M today wouldn't accept 1957 quality. Seemed like a much better car for a fraction of the price of an original. Shame you can't drive it in this country.

[john2443]

FlaminiaGT said:

Almost a carbon copy of the E-type lightweight programme

That's what made me wonder if it was a repeat and everyone would say it was a repost, but it must be that I watched the E type one.

[a8hex]

FlaminiaGT said:

... the car is built to perfection so sanitised version of the original, which to me misses the point. ...

Sadly some of the originals have also been treated that way too. The XKSS I used to see regularly which showed every sign of it's long and at times troubled history, I saw a year or so back looking beyond pristine as that is what the new owner wanted.

[MikeE]

a8hex said:

FlaminiaGT said:

... the car is built to perfection so sanitised version of the original, which to me misses the point. ...

Sadly some of the originals have also been treated that way too. The XKSS I used to see regularly which showed every sign of it's long and at times troubled history, I saw a year or so back looking beyond pristine as that is what the new owner wanted.

10 years ago I used to see the one from Racing Green (in Mitchett) on the road occasionally, that looked to have a good patina....wonder if it still does?

[john2443]

Just watched the one about painting, surprised how much filler they used - makes me feel better about the filler I'm using on my 66 yr old car body!

I expected them to get the panels perfect in bare ali!

[a8hex]

MikeE said:

a8hex said:

FlaminiaGT said:

... the car is built to perfection so sanitised version of the original, which to me misses the point. ...

Sadly some of the originals have also been treated that way too. The XKSS I used to see regularly which showed every sign of it's long and at times troubled history, I saw a year or so back looking beyond pristine as that is what the new owner wanted.

10 years ago I used to see the one from Racing Green (in Mitchett) on the road occasionally, that looked to have a good patina....wonder if it still does?

That was the one I was referring to. It's the first XKSS, the New York show car. It started life as a D-Type (XKD555) and was converted to being an XKSS but then later switched back and forth between these 2 personalities. I understand that at one point it had the XK engine replaced with a US V8 and the conversion included taking a lump hammer to the frames to make enough space. At some point bits of the car went in 2 different direction and became 2 separate cars and for a while both XKD555 and XKSS701 existed. The guy behind RGC managed to buy the other claimant and had both cars at XK60 at Goodwood parked side by side. These were then merged by CKL into a highly original XKSS and an interesting trackday D-Type rep with lots of original parts. At this stage the XKSS had all that lovely patina. But when it was sold the new owner want something very different and I think it was modified to look like the Steve McQueen car had at some point and so lost all of its character.

[MikeE]

a8hex said:

MikeE said:

a8hex said:

FlaminiaGT said:

... the car is built to perfection so sanitised version of the original, which to me misses the point. ...

Sadly some of the originals have also been treated that way too. The XKSS I used to see regularly which showed every sign of it's long and at times troubled history, I saw a year or so back looking beyond pristine as that is what the new owner wanted.

10 years ago I used to see the one from Racing Green (in Mitchett) on the road occasionally, that looked to have a good patina....wonder if it still does?

That was the one I was referring to. It's the first XKSS, the New York show car. It started life as a D-Type (XKD555) and was converted to being an XKSS but then later switched back and forth between these 2 personalities. I understand that at one point it had the XK engine replaced with a US V8 and the conversion included taking a lump hammer to the frames to make enough space. At some point bits of the car went in 2 different direction and became 2 separate cars and for a while both XKD555 and XKSS701 existed. The guy behind RGC managed to buy the other claimant and had both cars at XK60 at Goodwood parked side by side. These were then merged by CKL into a highly original XKSS and an interesting trackday D-Type rep with lots of original parts. At this stage the XKSS had all that lovely patina. But when it was sold the new owner want something very different and I think it was modified to look like the Steve McQueen car had at some point and so lost all of its character.

Thats a real shame. I spoke to the owner of RG about his XKSS and he told me there was dispute over the car as bits had turned up elsewhere, so that must have been before he managed to reunite the original bis into one car. I'm sure he wouldn't have allowed the car to be restored to the point it had lost all its history/patina, he seems really pleased with how 'used' it looked.

[a8hex]

MikeE said:

Thats a real shame. I spoke to the owner of RG about his XKSS and he told me there was dispute over the car as bits had turned up elsewhere, so that must have been before he managed to reunite the original bis into one car. I'm sure he wouldn't have allowed the car to be restored to the point it had lost all its history/patina, he seems really pleased with how 'used' it looked.

Yes, he managed to buy the "other car" in ~2008 and for a while there was the rather crossed eyed experience of seeing the 2 versions of the same car sitting side by side. He had the two then re-merged, as a lot of D-Types with split personalities have now been. It came back with the most original bits from both cars carrying all the signs of love and abuse a race car will suffer over 50 years. I guess eventually someone just made him an offer he couldn't refuse. The new owner must have preferred his toys shiny I don't think the new owner even kept it for long, the rumour I heard was that it was sold on again. I've not seen the car for a couple of years now. I lost contact with RGCs when Chris and then Peter left and setup Winspeed, lots of the old RGC guys seem to be working for them too now. The owner I saw a number of times since, I bought my XK150 from them and originally it was bought for the owner to use.

[lr107]

FlaminiaGT said:

Almost a carbon copy of the E-type lightweight programme, same presenter droning on using far too many adjectives, same factory and team but different car. Just like the E-type programme, the car is built to perfection so sanitised version of the original, which to me misses the point. Good for a couple of episodes, before it becomes background fodder.

There are constant complaints on this and other forums that current car resto/build shows on TV don't show enough detail. The E Type lightweight documentary on Channel 4 was 'engineering-light'. But, this new XKSS series addresses what loads of us have been banging on about for years. It focusses on the build and goes behind the scenes in to a world we never get to see. Seems we piston heads can be hard to please !

[lowdrag]

If anyone saw the trailer for the Amazon prime programme with the Hampster driving one of the new one you would have instantly noticed that they don't seem to be like the originals at all. He gets in and switches on the ignition and the rev counter flicks around to 7,000 and back to zero. Now when did chronometric rev counters do that? I am hearing all kinds of interesting tales about the new ones, and I should be getting to see the new cars close up during the Le Mans Classic if my information is correct. Jaguar are coming mob-handed with rich clients and have rented a chateau very close to me I hear.

ETA:- having watched the series this afternoon, I see that they made the screen surround in brass. Mine is in alloy as per the originals, but we decided to polish the alloy rather than risk chroming, which can distort the metal and you are into thousands to get a new one made. The chrome people insist on a disclaimer signed before they will undertake the job, so we backed off. I noticed a few more things that are different, like the laminated screen, the door hinges and didn't see if the exhaust mountings inside were cross-wired just to name a but a few. The obsessiveness that is part of the classic car scene turned me off a bit, since this can be compared to a chocolate box and not a car. One big difference between the new one and my replica is that mine is registered for road use and the new ones can't be. And before someone comments that Jaguar have one road registered explain to me how, as a new car, it is going to pass the MOT in three years with no seat belts, no air bags, and then there are of course the noise levels and emissions. Theirs has to be a prototype.

Edited by lowdrag on Tuesday 3rd April 04:59

[a8hex]

lowdrag said:

If anyone saw the trailer for the Amazon prime programme with the Hampster driving one of the new one you would have instantly noticed that they don't seem to be like the originals at all. He gets in and switches on the ignition and the rev counter flicks around to 7,000 and back to zero. Now when did chronometric rev counters do that? I am hearing all kinds of interesting tales about the new ones, and I should be getting to see the new cars close up during the Le Mans Classic if my information is correct. Jaguar are coming mob-handed with rich clients and have rented a chateau very close to me I hear.

ETA:- having watched the series this afternoon, I see that they made the screen surround in brass. Mine is in alloy as per the originals, but we decided to polish the alloy rather than risk chroming, which can distort the metal and you are into thousands to get a new one made. The chrome people insist on a disclaimer signed before they will undertake the job, so we backed off. I noticed a few more things that are different, like the door hinges and didn't see if the exhaust mountings inside were cross-wired just to name a but a few. The obsessiveness that is part of the classic car scene turned me off a bit, since this can be compared to a chocolate box and not a car. One big difference between the new one and my replica is that mine is registered for road use and the new ones can't be. And before someone comments that Jaguar have one road registered explain to me how, as a new car, it is going to pass the MOT in three years with no seat belts, no air bags, and then there are of course the noise levels and emissions. Theirs has to be a prototype.

Edited by lowdrag on Sunday 1st April 15:45

I've just watched the episode, it's quite fun. The interior doesn't look that authentic, it seemed to look more like someone paying over £1M for a new car might expect it to look Was Richard's problem why the C-Type had a spare set of plugs where moderns have a door pocket?
He also seemed to find it easier to stop in reverse than is normally the case, have they done something about that? He did mention the lack of breaks if the car wasn't in gear. He also seemed to be having some issues with the gear box, surely the XKSS should have the D-Type's full syncro box, not that I've ever driven one but I thought they were supposed to be easier to live with than the Moss box and these new cars shouldn't have knackered old ones, so even a Moss box shouldn't have given him those issues. The DB had a crash box and so is a totally different kettle of fish.
Can't say I can blame Richard Hammond for not wanting to race it around that track, that looked scary! I don't think I'd have wanted to drive the Honda round there quickly either, but I'm sure they had a lot of advise of the loadings on those rubber band profile tyres before trying it on the banking. Some of the sideways steps the DB made were into the brown trouser range.

[lowdrag]

I actually wonder if Jaguar went to the lengths of getting new gearboxes made or just did what a lot of people do and use a Jaguar box internals, but I don't think so because I did see the Plessy pump in one of the Channel 4 episodes.. It would be fun to put it through for its FIA papers to see if it qualifies! I haven't seen the full episode not having Prime, but I'll find someone in the UK who has and catch up on it then. I can't see just what owners are going to do with these cars though. They can't road register them but they can race them, and perhaps that is what the whole thing is all about. Certainly the D-types will be out there racing since who is going to risk £20 million racing the 1956 Le Mans winner? You only have to look at how many cars with very dubious or non-existent histories are out there already. Lord March has already gone back on his statement about replicas not being allowed at Goodwood, and if he allows them then that opens the flood gates.