Forced to loose 60yr reg. no. For an age related one. Help!
Discussion
Hi, Apologies for the length but will try to précis as much as poss.
We have owned our 1957 MGA for 33 years. It has either been taxed or SORN. 2.5 years ago car was valued. They noted V5 had a different engine/chassis number (26 years ago car renovated. MGB engine/new chassis). They advised send V5 to DVLA to get it amended. BIG MISTAKE!
DVLA now say as chassis replaced and we can’t prove it was new (no receipts from 1991 renovation) our treasured reg. no is gone, to be replaced with a 1957 reg from their “stock”. Ironically we now know, from the new chassis number, it was made in 1957. Also that MGCC have no record of that chassis on a car. So we can’t prove its new, but DVLA can’t prove it wasn’t. (Whether it would be possible to source a new chassis is a moot point, but IMO has nothing to do with the DVLA ‘rules’.)
For 2.5 years we’ve been trying to hang on to our reg. no. We’ve only got the DVLA final (3rd) appeal process left, but don’t believe that it will support our position, as the so say independant arbitrator only looks at ‘are DVLA rules applied properly’.
Our views are:
a) Is it reasonable and fair to decide the chassis was not new, given there is no evidence to the contrary?
b) Where is the sense/logic of taking away a 1957 reg.no that the car has had for over 60 years including 26 with a different 1957 chassis, only to replace it with one that’s is deemed to be of the same ‘age’?
By the way our treasured number is worth approx £3-4000, but it’s not just its value, our number is an intrinsic part of our beloved car.
Any help/advice would be much appreciated.
Gwyneth
We have owned our 1957 MGA for 33 years. It has either been taxed or SORN. 2.5 years ago car was valued. They noted V5 had a different engine/chassis number (26 years ago car renovated. MGB engine/new chassis). They advised send V5 to DVLA to get it amended. BIG MISTAKE!
DVLA now say as chassis replaced and we can’t prove it was new (no receipts from 1991 renovation) our treasured reg. no is gone, to be replaced with a 1957 reg from their “stock”. Ironically we now know, from the new chassis number, it was made in 1957. Also that MGCC have no record of that chassis on a car. So we can’t prove its new, but DVLA can’t prove it wasn’t. (Whether it would be possible to source a new chassis is a moot point, but IMO has nothing to do with the DVLA ‘rules’.)
For 2.5 years we’ve been trying to hang on to our reg. no. We’ve only got the DVLA final (3rd) appeal process left, but don’t believe that it will support our position, as the so say independant arbitrator only looks at ‘are DVLA rules applied properly’.
Our views are:
a) Is it reasonable and fair to decide the chassis was not new, given there is no evidence to the contrary?
b) Where is the sense/logic of taking away a 1957 reg.no that the car has had for over 60 years including 26 with a different 1957 chassis, only to replace it with one that’s is deemed to be of the same ‘age’?
By the way our treasured number is worth approx £3-4000, but it’s not just its value, our number is an intrinsic part of our beloved car.
Any help/advice would be much appreciated.
Gwyneth
Slightly naughty, but say you've cleaned up the chassis completely and found the original number.
It looks as if the new number had been added later, possibly at the time of restoration, but you have no idea why......
Also, a bit late in hindsight, but a lot of cars are restored from a pile of scrap and paperwork.
As you've found out, it really isn't worth opening the can of worms that is changing chassis numbers with the DVLA.
It looks as if the new number had been added later, possibly at the time of restoration, but you have no idea why......
Also, a bit late in hindsight, but a lot of cars are restored from a pile of scrap and paperwork.
As you've found out, it really isn't worth opening the can of worms that is changing chassis numbers with the DVLA.
MaisiesDad said:
Why not ask if they will let you keep the number on a non transferable basis, bit of a meet half way thing?
Worth a try, but I suspect they won't oblige.The problem is as far as DVLA are concerned, the orig reg number applies to the original chassis, which is now pressumably long since destroyed and therefore that's why they want to re-register it. Even the engine is different, and different type as well, so lots of points gone from 14 now, which is why they want proof of new replacement chassis. Chassis with a different ID is a no-no, and is now possibly going to be considered a re-constructed classic not a VHI as well?
sim16v said:
Slightly naughty, but say you've cleaned up the chassis completely and found the original number.
It looks as if the new number had been added later, possibly at the time of restoration, but you have no idea why......
Yes!..... Suddenly declaring that you've found the original chassis number on the replacement chassis after all this time, and have no idea why the chassis now has two different chassis numbers, shouldn't raise any suspicions with the DVLA should it! It looks as if the new number had been added later, possibly at the time of restoration, but you have no idea why......
Give it a go OP - The DVLA might then issue you one of their ultra-rare Q plates to put on your car as they decide that the age of the components making up the car can no longer be determined!
4rephill said:
sim16v said:
Slightly naughty, but say you've cleaned up the chassis completely and found the original number.
It looks as if the new number had been added later, possibly at the time of restoration, but you have no idea why......
Yes!..... Suddenly declaring that you've found the original chassis number on the replacement chassis after all this time, and have no idea why the chassis now has two different chassis numbers, shouldn't raise any suspicions with the DVLA should it! It looks as if the new number had been added later, possibly at the time of restoration, but you have no idea why......
Give it a go OP - The DVLA might then issue you one of their ultra-rare Q plates to put on your car as they decide that the age of the components making up the car can no longer be determined!
Given the MGA frame numbers and VIN number stampings were not the deepest of hand stampings, on the chassis boxes, and have usually rusted, been ground away/blasted/painted over during refurbishment, I'm surprised that the people doing the valuation were able to even read it!! Sounds like the 'new' chassis wasn't even prepared/re-painted at the time of the swap? If it had it's likely OP wouldn't be in this situation now
It wasn't a replacement chassis, it was an additional reference number on the restored chassis provided by the restorer, hence no trace of it on any historical records.... 
Back in the '90s I was the not so proud owner of an Escort RS Turbo.
It had full service history, with all old MOTs.
It also had three bloody chassis numbers on it, complete with different numbers on some of the MOTs!
Back in the '90s I was the not so proud owner of an Escort RS Turbo.
It had full service history, with all old MOTs.
It also had three bloody chassis numbers on it, complete with different numbers on some of the MOTs!
They are asking what is it? From what you've said, its not the original chassis and not the original engine. The replacement chassis has a different chassis number, hence the discrepency???
The paperwork should match the car, not the other way round so at the minute, the paperwork is wrong and so is the numberplate, as this should have been transferred to the "new" car, the one with the MGB engine.
You might like to argue along the lines of continuous histify, which is the triggers broom approach but its the new chassis with its chassis plate which is the spannef in the works
The paperwork should match the car, not the other way round so at the minute, the paperwork is wrong and so is the numberplate, as this should have been transferred to the "new" car, the one with the MGB engine.
You might like to argue along the lines of continuous histify, which is the triggers broom approach but its the new chassis with its chassis plate which is the spannef in the works
Spinneyman said:
We have owned our 1957 MGA for 33 years. It has either been taxed or SORN. 2.5 years ago car was valued. They noted V5 had a different engine/chassis number (26 years ago car renovated. MGB engine/new chassis). They advised send V5 to DVLA to get it amended. BIG MISTAKE!
DVLA now say as chassis replaced and we can’t prove it was new (no receipts from 1991 renovation) our treasured reg. no is gone
Doesn't look like MGA chassis are available new, even now, so it's very unlikely they were in 1991. The ones Moss sell are "reconditioned" - https://www.moss-europe.co.uk/shop-by-model/mg/mga...DVLA now say as chassis replaced and we can’t prove it was new (no receipts from 1991 renovation) our treasured reg. no is gone
So if a used chassis from a different vehicle's used, then the original ID is lost.
Spinneyman said:
(Whether it would be possible to source a new chassis is a moot point, but IMO has nothing to do with the DVLA ‘rules’.)
In DVLA's opinion it definitely does... And theirs is the one that counts.Spinneyman said:
Our views are:
a) Is it reasonable and fair to decide the chassis was not new, given there is no evidence to the contrary?
The burden of proof doesn't work that way...a) Is it reasonable and fair to decide the chassis was not new, given there is no evidence to the contrary?
Sorry - from what you've said, DVLA are in the right on this one. I take it the club and federation aren't taking your side on this, either...?
Weslake-Monza said:
Write to your MP and ask them to get the DVLA to do the right think rather than seek a profit by stealing your cars' reg.
Do what right thing? - the car is no longer the one that 'owns' the reg - it has a different chassis and engineBTW - No one technically owns a registration......and we wonder why DVLA get pissed off with old car world when s
t like this goes on and the entitled owners think they have a right to a 'treasured' reg and to not have it 'stolen' - laughable In this situation would be happy that it could be registered at all
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