Bruce McLaren's E-Type
Discussion
I hate to think what the asking price will be for this 
http://www.jdclassics.com/showrooms/Jaguar-E-type/...
http://www.jdclassics.com/showrooms/Jaguar-E-type/...
Many years ago I was at the Le Mans Classic staying in the B&B Hotel and Bruce Maclarens brother in law was also there.
I had just been fined 835 Euros for speeding in our Cobra so was busy trying to drown my sorrows in Export 33 and the Aussie famous person's BiL also joined in "borrowing" a few bottles off me.
IIRC , and it was a long time ago and I had had a few , but I do remember being asked if I could sponsor a piece of Bruce Maclarens car that was being rebuilt, sponsorship of wheel nut was quite a bit of cash.
Given that I already had to explain to the Mrs why I had already paid for a good proportion of the Le Mans gendarmarie's children to get new bikes that Xmas , I declined the offer but I formed an opinion of how a certain persons legacy was providing lots of income for a loosely associated second person.
He is therefore called "Spongebob McClaren" in our reminicences .
Cheers,
Tony
I had just been fined 835 Euros for speeding in our Cobra so was busy trying to drown my sorrows in Export 33 and the Aussie famous person's BiL also joined in "borrowing" a few bottles off me.
IIRC , and it was a long time ago and I had had a few , but I do remember being asked if I could sponsor a piece of Bruce Maclarens car that was being rebuilt, sponsorship of wheel nut was quite a bit of cash.
Given that I already had to explain to the Mrs why I had already paid for a good proportion of the Le Mans gendarmarie's children to get new bikes that Xmas , I declined the offer but I formed an opinion of how a certain persons legacy was providing lots of income for a loosely associated second person.
He is therefore called "Spongebob McClaren" in our reminicences .
Cheers,
Tony
Quite apart from the provenance and everything else, remember this is a flat floor car so useless for anyone other than pygmies, it has that awful Moss gearbox with useless synchromesh as standard and to cap it all, Kelsey Hayes brakes which were somewhat marginal so if you wanted a car to drive and enjoy this would not be it!
Mike-tf3n0 said:
Quite apart from the provenance and everything else, remember this is a flat floor car so useless for anyone other than pygmies, it has that awful Moss gearbox with useless synchromesh as standard and to cap it all, Kelsey Hayes brakes which were somewhat marginal so if you wanted a car to drive and enjoy this would not be it!
I suspect, given the price likely being asked, I suspect the only driving it will ever get is on and off a trailer..........Mike-tf3n0 said:
...it has that awful Moss gearbox with useless synchromesh as ...
Don't know about in the E-Type, but in the XK the Moss box is such a core part of the car that driving modernised one quite spoilt the whole effect. If you can't cope with the Moss box you could always save yourself a pile of cash and buy an F-Type with a modern auto box and make life much easier for yourself. Why buy a classic car if you don't want to drive one?a8hex said:
Mike-tf3n0 said:
...it has that awful Moss gearbox with useless synchromesh as ...
Don't know about in the E-Type, but in the XK the Moss box is such a core part of the car that driving modernised one quite spoilt the whole effect. If you can't cope with the Moss box you could always save yourself a pile of cash and buy an F-Type with a modern auto box and make life much easier for yourself. Why buy a classic car if you don't want to drive one?Well, since it is JD Classics selling the car, add £100,000 to start with.Since I have followed the early cars for over 30 years (and failed miserably trying to buy Lofty England's car #4 over 20 years ago despite three years of trying to buy the wreck), and given that LHD ones are selling for £300,000 (and there are a lot more of those than RHD of which only 91 were outside lock cars), I would say around £400,000. But I would disagree with some of the comments above; Double declutching is a lost art, or in most instances something that people never had to learn, but there is a satisfaction in getting it right with the Moss box. I've had one for over 30 years and have no problems. Yet, you do need to be somewhat vertically challenged to drive a flat floor, but I was 5' 8" on a good day and wear size 8 shoes and that is getting near the limit. The seat is hard against the rear bulkhead. But I thought you'd be amused at the photo of my dear departed friend driving my car at Prescott. He was 6' 7"
Martin and Tom by Tony Brown, on Flickr
Martin and Tom by Tony Brown, on FlickrTony427 said:
Many years ago I was at the Le Mans Classic staying in the B&B Hotel and Bruce Maclarens brother in law was also there.
I had just been fined 835 Euros for speeding in our Cobra so was busy trying to drown my sorrows in Export 33 and the Aussie famous person's BiL also joined in "borrowing" a few bottles off me.
IIRC , and it was a long time ago and I had had a few , but I do remember being asked if I could sponsor a piece of Bruce Maclarens car that was being rebuilt, sponsorship of wheel nut was quite a bit of cash.
Given that I already had to explain to the Mrs why I had already paid for a good proportion of the Le Mans gendarmarie's children to get new bikes that Xmas , I declined the offer but I formed an opinion of how a certain persons legacy was providing lots of income for a loosely associated second person.
He is therefore called "Spongebob McClaren" in our reminicences .
Cheers,
Tony
McLaren not McClaren and New Zealand not Australia.I had just been fined 835 Euros for speeding in our Cobra so was busy trying to drown my sorrows in Export 33 and the Aussie famous person's BiL also joined in "borrowing" a few bottles off me.
IIRC , and it was a long time ago and I had had a few , but I do remember being asked if I could sponsor a piece of Bruce Maclarens car that was being rebuilt, sponsorship of wheel nut was quite a bit of cash.
Given that I already had to explain to the Mrs why I had already paid for a good proportion of the Le Mans gendarmarie's children to get new bikes that Xmas , I declined the offer but I formed an opinion of how a certain persons legacy was providing lots of income for a loosely associated second person.
He is therefore called "Spongebob McClaren" in our reminicences .
Cheers,
Tony
lowdrag said:
Well, since it is JD Classics selling the car, add £100,000 to start with.Since I have followed the early cars for over 30 years (and failed miserably trying to buy Lofty England's car #4 over 20 years ago despite three years of trying to buy the wreck), and given that LHD ones are selling for £300,000 (and there are a lot more of those than RHD of which only 91 were outside lock cars), I would say around £400,000. But I would disagree with some of the comments above; Double declutching is a lost art, or in most instances something that people never had to learn, but there is a satisfaction in getting it right with the Moss box. I've had one for over 30 years and have no problems. Yet, you do need to be somewhat vertically challenged to drive a flat floor, but I was 5' 8" on a good day and wear size 8 shoes and that is getting near the limit. The seat is hard against the rear bulkhead. But I thought you'd be amused at the photo of my dear departed friend driving my car at Prescott. He was 6' 7"
Martin and Tom by Tony Brown, on Flickr
Well Said Tony .Martin and Tom by Tony Brown, on FlickrI drove an 1964 FHC with Moss Box and loved every moment of it .............Eventually buying CDC543C a 1965 4.2 with the later box , easier to drive possibly , but loved the earlier box
During my years at Lynx Engineering I drove many cars with Moss boxes and without any great difficulty but it's a bit like artificial resuscitation - one thousand, two thousand three thousand and push - I can do without it!! The fact that Jaguar replaced the Moss box with the all synchro box is acknowledgement that it really was a bit antiquated but it is whatever turns you on, personally I just got fed up with it!!
Edited by Mike-tf3n0 on Saturday 10th March 22:34
As you say Mike, there's light years between the two. I have the Jaguar box in my Lynx and it is a knife through butter compared to the Moss, but somehow that old pre-war box has a character of its own. And don't forget that it was used even as in the late 60s to launch the Morgan +8, and those Moss box cars are highly sought after today.
'Morning Tony, Love the pic of your flat floor! I'm 6' dead and having spent one weekend folded into a very nice lightened and tweaked flat floor - with Moss box incidentally - vowed never to go there again if I could avoid it! I do understand that for restoration of XK120/140/150/3.8E etc the Moss box is de rigeur and I guess the price is going up because they are getting hard to find. If I recall correctly Moss spent some time and money themselves trying to develop an all synchro follow on for the old box but it was plagued with reliability problems and was eventually scrapped. My guess is that had it been successful it would have gone into the E Type from the outset. In the mid '70s I drove an E type which Lofty England was running as his personal car, fitted with a prototype all synchro five speed gearbox, intended to follow on from the then standard four speed. It was very nice, just like the four speed all synchro but with an extra gear. Unfortunately it was also incredibly heavy and was I think scrapped in the end.
Mike-tf3n0 said:
During my years at Lynx Engineering I drove many cars with Moss boxes and without any great difficulty but it's a bit like artificial resuscitation - one thousand, two thousand three thousand and push - I can do without it!! The fact that Jaguar replaced the Moss box with the all synchro box is acknowledgement that it really was a bit antiquated but it is whatever turns you on, personally I just got fed up with it!!
But by that measure the whole of the classic car movement is artificial. In due time Jaguar decided that the straight 6 E-Type needed to be replaced and we got the V12. Then they decided that the E-Type was antiquated and replaced it with the XJS, which one is more valuable now? In time the XJS went the same way and of course a late convertible XJS will set you back vastly more than an XK8/R, in fact it decent one would cost you more than the X150 version. Which one is the "better" car?Edited by Mike-tf3n0 on Saturday 10th March 22:34
All classics are antiquated that's the point.
If all you want is the lines of an E-Type Beecham will sell you an XKR in a borrowed frock. At least their E looks better than their Mk2 which, to my mind, looks like a Mk2 body balanced onto of something all together larger.
You are right of course, everything becomes obsolete and gets replaced. Don't get me wrong, I recognise the place the Moss box occupies and that some cars should always have that box in preference to any other. I have driven lots and I personally just find it a pain. I remember in the 60s driving E types, Mk2s and S types with it and thinking that it wasn't a patch on the gearbox in the VW transporter I used to tow my racing car. How could Jaguar think it a good thing that the gearbox in a Beetle was so much quicker and smoother than that in an E type and remember that those two vehicles were contemporaneous and the Beetle was far, far cheaper. Just my personal view!
Mike-tf3n0 said:
'Morning Tony, Love the pic of your flat floor! I'm 6' dead and having spent one weekend folded into a very nice lightened and tweaked flat floor - with Moss box incidentally - vowed never to go there again if I could avoid it! I do understand that for restoration of XK120/140/150/3.8E etc the Moss box is de rigeur and I guess the price is going up because they are getting hard to find. If I recall correctly Moss spent some time and money themselves trying to develop an all synchro follow on for the old box but it was plagued with reliability problems and was eventually scrapped. My guess is that had it been successful it would have gone into the E Type from the outset. In the mid '70s I drove an E type which Lofty England was running as his personal car, fitted with a prototype all synchro five speed gearbox, intended to follow on from the then standard four speed. It was very nice, just like the four speed all synchro but with an extra gear. Unfortunately it was also incredibly heavy and was I think scrapped in the end.
Strangely it is rather the opposite Mike. I know a dealer who sells XKs and todays modern younger driver can't double declutch so out comes the Moss box and in goes a Tremec five-speed. It is only old dinosaurs like me who want to keep the Moss. You can buy a 52 box from an XK120 for a song these days but no one is making spares for them as far as I know. However, the price of Jaguar boxes is rising steadily.Gassing Station | Classic Cars and Yesterday's Heroes | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff