BREXIT - Importing from the EU before / after

[bobo]

Hi guys, i just put a deposit on a classic car in the EU with final payment and collection in April 2019 which takes me past Brexit March date.

Questions are as im worried this may effect things....

1) What do i need to do to a German registered classic to get it on UK plates on import ? Fog lamps? etc

2) At what point does Customs recognise the date of import? UK registration or when the car is driven into the UK? I dont want to be on the wrong side of the date and have to pay additional VAT and duty after brexit.

Thanks

[tog]

Your guess as to what you'll have to do after Brexit is as good as anyone's right now.

[robemcdonald]

What are the WTO tariffs for importing and exporting of cars? I suspect it will be that.

[CABC]

Firstly, I don't know. Not sure anyone does.
I've imported in both directions but the difference with the uk is that the form asks when the car entered the UK, so you might be lucky. Importing to uk seems far less bureaucratic than other countries. In France you have to have all the papers lined up first, including a quittance from finance dept of duty paid before even starting the application.

[davepoth]

Worst case scenario is 20% VAT and 10% duty. That's what you'd be looking at for importing something into the UK from a third country right now. Take a look at this ruling to see how it applies to the car you're buying.

https://www.gdlaw.co.uk/site/news/all-news/VAT_rul...

And that doesn't take into account any issues surrounding re-registering the car here.

If I were you, I'd be moving heaven and earth to get it into the UK before the 29th of March.

[TooMany2cvs]

bobo said:

1) What do i need to do to a German registered classic to get it on UK plates on import ? Fog lamps? etc

Headlights that dip left.
Fog light on centreline or right or mirrored - if fitted pre-1980, must be fitted post 1980.
Officially - mph speedo, but nobody ever checks.

bobo said:

2) At what point does Customs recognise the date of import?

The date of the NOVA declaration. That has to be before 14 days after the physical import... but I have no idea if it's possible to do BEFORE import.

Apart from NOVA, there's no difference registering an EU or non-EU car once it's over 10yo. Before 10yo, it's the difference between a CoC and an IVA, but that doesn't matter for either for an older car.

[Norfolkandchance]

I don't know the answer, I don't know if anyone does.

But it is difficult to imagine it getting easier or cheaper after Brexit. At best it will stay the same. I'd be doing everything I could to get it in before. Landed. If it were me i'd be willing to pay at least some extra, if that's what it took, to achieve this.

Edited by Norfolkandchance on Friday 12th October 14:08

[GoodOlBoy]

davepoth said:

Worst case scenario is 20% VAT and 10% duty. That's what you'd be looking at for importing something into the UK from a third country right now. Take a look at this ruling to see how it applies to the car you're buying.

https://www.gdlaw.co.uk/site/news/all-news/VAT_rul...

And that doesn't take into account any issues surrounding re-registering the car here.

If I were you, I'd be moving heaven and earth to get it into the UK before the 29th of March.

The link you've posted confirms the customs duty is zero and VAT is 5%.

My understanding is that these are the figures that are currently applied to cars imported from outside the EU.

Where did you get 20% and 10% from ?

[TooMany2cvs]

Norfolkandchance said:

I'd be doing everything I could to get it in before.

I've got a couple of now-MOT-exempt projects which came into the country before NOVA. I'm trying to find out what the score is on getting NOVA for them pre-March, at the very least, even if I don't actually get 'em fully registered.

[MDL111]

GoodOlBoy said:

davepoth said:

Worst case scenario is 20% VAT and 10% duty. That's what you'd be looking at for importing something into the UK from a third country right now. Take a look at this ruling to see how it applies to the car you're buying.

https://www.gdlaw.co.uk/site/news/all-news/VAT_rul...

And that doesn't take into account any issues surrounding re-registering the car here.

If I were you, I'd be moving heaven and earth to get it into the UK before the 29th of March.

The link you've posted confirms the customs duty is zero and VAT is 5%.

My understanding is that these are the figures that are currently applied to cars imported from outside the EU.

Where did you get 20% and 10% from ?

The c 20 and 10 is roughly what you pay for non-historically relevant cars imported from a country outside the EU into the EU. At least those are the figures I have in my head from looking into importing a Viper a year ago. So that might be how an import from the EU into the UK could be treated post Brexit. Nobody really knows though - I have been thinking about the Reverse - buying a car in the UK to take to Germany.

[Mike Biddle]

Having imported two cars from outside the EU in the last couple of years I can confirm the following.

1938 Frazer Nash-BMW 327/80 Coupe imported from Singapore, no import duty and 5% VAT.

!996 Caterham imported from Dubai, 10% duty and 20% VAT. Note the VAT amount is calculated by adding the import duty to the car value, then charging VAT on the total, tax upon tax!

So what you pay will depend on whether the car is historically significant or not, how old is it?

Re Brexit, I am convinced a deal will be done, and that will mean a transition period while the final deal is sorted out, and if that is the case, then the existing rules will apply for a few more years yet, which means no duty or VAT.

If a no deal occurs then it will depend whether your car is in the historically significant or not as per the two examples above.

[Balmoral]

EU/Non EU imports basically means Duty paid/Non Duty paid. Taxes/Duties have already been paid within the EU, ergo the UK. It would follow that only vehicles that are/were new after brexit would be liable to tax/duty as Non Duty paid, not those before.

Edited by Balmoral on Monday 15th October 07:34

[Welshbeef]

GoodOlBoy said:

The link you've posted confirms the customs duty is zero and VAT is 5%.

My understanding is that these are the figures that are currently applied to cars imported from outside the EU.

Where did you get 20% and 10% from ?

Why does vat apply to a second hand car?

[TooMany2cvs]

Welshbeef said:

Why does vat apply to a second hand car?

It always applies. It's just sometimes already been paid.

Ever noticed how some used commercials and high-end stuff are advertised as being "VAT Qualifying" or "+VAT"?
https://www.classicandsportscar.com/classifieds/cl...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

VAT is paid on a new car or van or truck.
If VAT is then reclaimed because the vehicle's been bought by a business for business use, then VAT needs to be charged on the used sale. And that VAT can then be reclaimed if bought by a business, etc. But it then has to be charged on sale... etc.

Soon as that VAT-reclaim chain is broken, the vehicle is never VAT qualifying again.

If it never had VAT paid on it (and remember the single VAT union means German/French/Italian/Spanish/Swedish/Romanian VAT counts the same as UK VAT), or if that VAT was reclaimed in the source country, then VAT needs to be paid on import. And if that VAT is then reclaimed...

[Welshbeef]

TooMany2cvs said:

It always applies. It's just sometimes already been paid.

Ever noticed how some used commercials and high-end stuff are advertised as being "VAT Qualifying" or "+VAT"?
https://www.classicandsportscar.com/classifieds/cl...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

VAT is paid on a new car or van or truck.
If VAT is then reclaimed because the vehicle's been bought by a business for business use, then VAT needs to be charged on the used sale. And that VAT can then be reclaimed if bought by a business, etc. But it then has to be charged on sale... etc.

Soon as that VAT-reclaim chain is broken, the vehicle is never VAT qualifying again.

If it never had VAT paid on it (and remember the single VAT union means German/French/Italian/Spanish/Swedish/Romanian VAT counts the same as UK VAT), or if that VAT was reclaimed in the source country, then VAT needs to be paid on import. And if that VAT is then reclaimed...

So on a 1960’s Ferrari how can you trace if VAT was reclaimed or not?

[TooMany2cvs]

Welshbeef said:

So on a 1960’s Ferrari how can you trace if VAT was reclaimed or not?

If it's been in the UK all that time, then clearly it can't have been - because VAT didn't replace Purchase Tax until the 70s...

But it just follows the normal VAT invoicing regime.
You get a VAT invoice to show you're paying the VAT when you buy a vehicle? You can reclaim the VAT.
You sell a vehicle and charge the VAT? You give a VAT invoice showing the VAT paid.

[CABC]

Balmoral said:

EU/Non EU imports basically means Duty paid/Non Duty paid. Taxes/Duties have already been paid within the EU, ergo the UK. It would follow that only vehicles that are/were new after brexit would be liable to tax/duty as Non Duty paid, not those before.

Edited by Balmoral on Monday 15th October 07:34

i see the logic but that's no g'tee that'll be the situation after brexit. the existing fom situation is open to different interpretations.

[The Surveyor]

Mike Biddle said:

Having imported two cars from outside the EU in the last couple of years I can confirm the following.

1938 Frazer Nash-BMW 327/80 Coupe imported from Singapore, no import duty and 5% VAT.

!996 Caterham imported from Dubai, 10% duty and 20% VAT. Note the VAT amount is calculated by adding the import duty to the car value, then charging VAT on the total, tax upon tax!

So what you pay will depend on whether the car is historically significant or not, how old is it?

Re Brexit, I am convinced a deal will be done, and that will mean a transition period while the final deal is sorted out, and if that is the case, then the existing rules will apply for a few more years yet, which means no duty or VAT.

If a no deal occurs then it will depend whether your car is in the historically significant or not as per the two examples above.

How does this work at the point of purchase rather than import. Take the Caterham, if you bought from a dealer, did you buy that car 'duty free' in Dubai because you're exporting it, and then pay the UK duty on import, similar to VAT-free sales to people taking goods from the UK out of the EU.

So whilst you had to pay VAT on import, did you save a similar amount in Dubai, or does it not work like that?

[Balmoral]

CABC said:

Balmoral said:

EU/Non EU imports basically means Duty paid/Non Duty paid. Taxes/Duties have already been paid within the EU, ergo the UK. It would follow that only vehicles that are/were new after brexit would be liable to tax/duty as Non Duty paid, not those before.

i see the logic but that's no g'tee that'll be the situation after brexit. the existing fom situation is open to different interpretations.

I understand it's no gaurantee. But Tax/Duty has already been paid in the UK by definition/extension, even if no actual monies came to the UK exchequer. I can't see HMG getting very far asking for it to be paid for a second time if it came to a legal challenge. At the moment it's simply a matter of whether an import is from within the EU (Tax/duty paid) or outside the EU (no tax/duty paid). I can imagine that post Brexit there would have to be a two tier level for vehicles imported from the EU based upon date of registration/new invoice, with a before (Tax/duty ostensibly paid) and an after (no tax/duty paid), which would then be the same as currently importing from RoW.

But I'm only trying to be fair, logical and legal

[CABC]

Balmoral said:

But I'm only trying to be fair, logical and legal

this is europe we're talking about!
seriously, i think the uk would be fair and reasonable. i found this importing 3 cars.
France is a little more tricky, and for non-eu cars they use their own 'understanding' of secondhand prices to charge duty on.
Portugal charge silly amounts for even for EU cars! and then they stick a finger up to the ECJ ruling against them and raised duty even higher.